U.S. Forces in Japan: time to say good-bye?
- Thread starter thomas
- Start date
Reiku
先輩
- 23 Aug 2004
- 494
- 12
That, or it's because we keep electing presidents who don't know how to tie their shoes, let alone balance a budget... :emblaugh:
Personally, I don't think we had any buisness being there in the first place. A country's millitary should be in their country, defending their borders--there's really no justifiable reasons for them to be anywhere or do anything else, IMO.
Anyway, one last smarta** remark before I'm done with this topic:
Who caused that devastation again?
It was us, wasn't it?
Isn't that kind of like burning someone's house down, and then showing up with a shotgun and offering to guard the place while they rebuild?
Personally, I don't think we had any buisness being there in the first place. A country's millitary should be in their country, defending their borders--there's really no justifiable reasons for them to be anywhere or do anything else, IMO.
Anyway, one last smarta** remark before I'm done with this topic:
Shooter452 said:
Who caused that devastation again?
It was us, wasn't it?
Isn't that kind of like burning someone's house down, and then showing up with a shotgun and offering to guard the place while they rebuild?
Mike Cash said:
Nope, i dont get your point, many japanese still dont want them, but thats different from recognising their there for a reason.
You seem to have this opinion i oppose these bases and want them gone, i dont, as i think ive said before, im british, i couldnt give two s***s about american bases in some foreign country, i just recognise people there arent happy about it.
I have to agree, for some reason the whiping out of a people, stealing their lands, and putting the survivors in reservations doesnt seem to register as the horrible crime against humanity and ethnic cleansing it was.
When you think about that, suddenly japans war-crimes look a little less unique.
On topic of US pre-emtive strike, then how come the US is attacking china? or the new europe? europe is (unfortunately) on the slippery road to federal state, which means it can out-gun america.
Iran has threatened the west yet america doesnt do anything, its actually waiting on the UN.
Honestly i dont think the US can do anything and thats why they wait, Bush made mistakes because hes a ***** and he left his brain...somewhere, it depends if he ever developed one, but i think present history is more the mistakes of a idealistic mistaken US leadership, dealing with the end of american world supremacy, it will be a slow downhill fall but i think america has exhausted its artificial leap to power post WW2, after all, its kinda easy to become dominant if your country is not only intact but geared up for manufacturing while the rest of the world is crumbling under war.
In short, the US is unlikely to take over the world, neither is china, and at the momment, it serves everyones overall interests for the US to maintain bases in Japan.
d3jake
C++ Programmer
- 9 Mar 2005
- 220
- 3
Blue Tiger said:
I think an English lesson is in order...
Well... seems to me that you need to read this... Just once I want to see a bipartisan opinion about this, or is it only Democrats who want to hack away at the president?
Then who is exactly. Seem to me that he is president...so therefore, (wait, I know this one!) he... is your leader!
Wow, that was certainly a hard one to come up with!
Reiku
先輩
- 23 Aug 2004
- 494
- 12
Carlson said:
Everyone from a country that's nuked another country--twice--raise your hand.
>raises his hand, looks around guiltily<
What, no one else?
Damn!
Personally, I don't think any country's military has any buisness anywhere outside their own borders. Defend your turf, leave everyone else alone--but whose gonna' listen to me?
Anyway, it's too late now--at this point the system's too broken to fix: The kids have discovered playing in the neighbor's yard, and they aren't going back--it's just that simple.
Han Chan
先輩
- 14 Mar 2006
- 444
- 16
The Japanese tax payers precently pays 230 billion yen annually for having the US forces in the country. Now US demands that Japan shall pay 75% of the costs for moving troops to bases in Guam.
Todays editorial from Asahi is interesting reading:
"Cost of U.S. troops move (03/20/2006):
Talks continue over Washington's demand that Tokyo foot three-quarters of the bill to relocate U.S. Marine troops from Okinawa Prefecture to Guam, a move that is part of the realignment plan for the U.S. military forces in Japan.
The cost of this proposed transfer is exorbitant. The U.S. Defense Department estimates it will cost at least $10 billion (1.16 trillion yen), and insists Japan shoulder 75 percent of that expense, or $7.5 billion (870 billion yen)."
You can find the rest of the editorial through this link:
http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200603200113.html
What do you think is it fair that US demands Japan should pay these exorbitant costs? I don't - and I think even asking this price is offending!
Todays editorial from Asahi is interesting reading:
"Cost of U.S. troops move (03/20/2006):
Talks continue over Washington's demand that Tokyo foot three-quarters of the bill to relocate U.S. Marine troops from Okinawa Prefecture to Guam, a move that is part of the realignment plan for the U.S. military forces in Japan.
The cost of this proposed transfer is exorbitant. The U.S. Defense Department estimates it will cost at least $10 billion (1.16 trillion yen), and insists Japan shoulder 75 percent of that expense, or $7.5 billion (870 billion yen)."
You can find the rest of the editorial through this link:
http://www.asahi.com/english/Herald-asahi/TKY200603200113.html
What do you think is it fair that US demands Japan should pay these exorbitant costs? I don't - and I think even asking this price is offending!
Why should Japan pay for american forces to move? if the US wants its forces in someone elses backyard it pays for it itself....Han Chan said:
kashii:Edit: I think this is an example of Americans declining economy, if this continues, the price of being an ally of America will simply be too much, and the United States will find itself without friends pretty quickly.
Sukotto
先輩
- 9 Jul 2003
- 1,426
- 20
Response to ?
Is it time for US Force to leave Japan?
My opnion -- yes.
And do the Okinawans want us there?
Some have said that Okinawans don't really mind that much
about US bases there. So I emailed a couple people about the matter.
I got the following responses:
response #1 (the polite response)
(that those who complain about the US military bases in Okinawa
come mostly from outside) is not true. In fact, Okinawans are really
frustrated by and angry about the indifference the mainland Japanese
show about Okinawans shouldering the burden of the US military bases.
However, the person's mistake is understandable for two reasons. One,
Okinawans are very hospitable and generous people and do not show
their displeasure directly to you. They are almost infinitely
accommodating. But that doesn't mean they are willing to keep the
military bases forever. Two, many Okinawans are economically
dependent on serving the bases and the personnel. They will certainly
not tell their customers to bug off, especially when they have no
alternatives to serving this particular brand of customers. So those
two factors may make Okinawans look "cool" about the bases, but
that's only the surface.
The next time someone says something like what you have heard, ask
that person these questions: Have you made genuine friends with
Okinawans? Have you ever talked with locals about what they really
feel about having the military bases in their own communities? If
Okinawans are really "cool" about having the bases, why do they get
angry about the "incidents" instead of accepting them as part of the
baggage of having the military bases in their own land?
You might want to read "Cocktail Party" by Tatsuhiro Oshiro to
understand the complex psychological landscape of Okinawans about
having to live with the US military
men. Though it's old, but the core hasn't really changed.
---end #1----
response #2 (the less polite one)
I suggest that you read the numerous articles on Okinawa, often by
Okinawans, on the Japan Policy Research Institute web site (see
Okinawa in the Index). www.jpri.org. I interpret the American
soldier's remarks as saying that even though he's secretly ashamed
of what he is doing in Okinawa, he wants to believe that the
Okinawans are really happy to have him there. This is a typical
American male's fantasy: the people he rapes really want it.
---end #2---
Also, I came across a
A Newsletter on Ryukyuan/Okinawan Studies
for people to enjoy.
Archives of Ryukyuanist Newsletter
http://www.uchinanchu.org/uchinanchu/ryukyuanist.htm
:148:
Is it time for US Force to leave Japan?
My opnion -- yes.
And do the Okinawans want us there?
Some have said that Okinawans don't really mind that much
about US bases there. So I emailed a couple people about the matter.
I got the following responses:
response #1 (the polite response)
(that those who complain about the US military bases in Okinawa
come mostly from outside) is not true. In fact, Okinawans are really
frustrated by and angry about the indifference the mainland Japanese
show about Okinawans shouldering the burden of the US military bases.
However, the person's mistake is understandable for two reasons. One,
Okinawans are very hospitable and generous people and do not show
their displeasure directly to you. They are almost infinitely
accommodating. But that doesn't mean they are willing to keep the
military bases forever. Two, many Okinawans are economically
dependent on serving the bases and the personnel. They will certainly
not tell their customers to bug off, especially when they have no
alternatives to serving this particular brand of customers. So those
two factors may make Okinawans look "cool" about the bases, but
that's only the surface.
The next time someone says something like what you have heard, ask
that person these questions: Have you made genuine friends with
Okinawans? Have you ever talked with locals about what they really
feel about having the military bases in their own communities? If
Okinawans are really "cool" about having the bases, why do they get
angry about the "incidents" instead of accepting them as part of the
baggage of having the military bases in their own land?
You might want to read "Cocktail Party" by Tatsuhiro Oshiro to
understand the complex psychological landscape of Okinawans about
having to live with the US military
men. Though it's old, but the core hasn't really changed.
---end #1----
response #2 (the less polite one)
I suggest that you read the numerous articles on Okinawa, often by
Okinawans, on the Japan Policy Research Institute web site (see
Okinawa in the Index). www.jpri.org. I interpret the American
soldier's remarks as saying that even though he's secretly ashamed
of what he is doing in Okinawa, he wants to believe that the
Okinawans are really happy to have him there. This is a typical
American male's fantasy: the people he rapes really want it.
---end #2---
Also, I came across a
A Newsletter on Ryukyuan/Okinawan Studies
for people to enjoy.
Archives of Ryukyuanist Newsletter
http://www.uchinanchu.org/uchinanchu/ryukyuanist.htm
:148:
I am quite suprised that you do not know about Lakenheath, Menwith Hill, and Mildenhall bases. I thought they were well known in the UK, but I guess I was mistaken... :souka:nurizeko said:
Some information if you need it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Lakenheath
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Mildenhall
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Menwith_Hill
Although smaller installations (or some now not in use), there is also:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Alconbury
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Ascension_Island
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Bicester
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Chelveston
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Croughton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Digby
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Fairford
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Feltwell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Leuchars
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Molesworth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Oakhanger
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Upwood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAF_Welford
and others I don't have convinient links to
Last edited:
Crazy Russian
Banned forever!
- 24 Feb 2006
- 94
- 4
I always give vent to my pent-up feelings, vent my righteous anger and use bad language when discussing the US foreign policy. In most cases, it is only striking my head with a cleaver that can silence me.
So in order to not put my oar in the dispute, I shall say only two things:
1. I do dislike the US government to interfere in other people's affairs.
2. There being the US forces in Japan, the US government will not atom-bomb Hiroshima, Nagasaki or any other city lest the forces suffer.
So in order to not put my oar in the dispute, I shall say only two things:
1. I do dislike the US government to interfere in other people's affairs.
2. There being the US forces in Japan, the US government will not atom-bomb Hiroshima, Nagasaki or any other city lest the forces suffer.
Crazy Russian
Banned forever!
- 24 Feb 2006
- 94
- 4
Panta Ray said:
Serbia and Russia are sister nations. I understand you very well...
I have never believed in good intentions of the US government. The US government carries out a dirty and execrable policy all over the world. They have some plans in Japan as well...
Panta Ray, though the Russian government betrayed Serbians in the 90s (I hate Russian politicians for that! I don't know why they did it.
), but Russian people have always loved Serbians and have always been on their side. Please, remember that...And it's very pity that some politicians should be arse-lickers. Why are they afraid of being at variance with the US government's demagogy?
irishlight42
後輩
- 22 Apr 2006
- 67
- 1
I voted 'Yes', but I firmly believe also that there should be SOME REASONABLE limits on Japan's military (Japan needs to be able to defend itself, which doesn't take too much however) until Japan is done denying atrocities from WWII.
A small army with technology such as Japan has, can do a plenty efficient job of defence. A large army, however, is only necessary for taking and occupying other countries. Militarism and nationalism, as can be seen with China (and the U.S. certainly; Bush should be impeached in my opinion honestly) is not a good mix. It is what led to people like Hitler and Hideki Tojo coming to power. Right now, there seems quite some nationalism in Japan (as well as more liberal Japanese, like in the U.S.), unlike in Germany where nationalism is frowned upon as dangerous.
For that matter, the disturbing nationalism needs to be stepped down in the U.S., and Bush needs to stop inflicting fear into the minds of Americans of "radical islamics" the way Hitler inflicted fear in the minds of Germans of "prominent jews", so that Americans will not blindly support the war in Iraq and the denial of "Habeas Corpus" to the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.
A small army with technology such as Japan has, can do a plenty efficient job of defence. A large army, however, is only necessary for taking and occupying other countries. Militarism and nationalism, as can be seen with China (and the U.S. certainly; Bush should be impeached in my opinion honestly) is not a good mix. It is what led to people like Hitler and Hideki Tojo coming to power. Right now, there seems quite some nationalism in Japan (as well as more liberal Japanese, like in the U.S.), unlike in Germany where nationalism is frowned upon as dangerous.
For that matter, the disturbing nationalism needs to be stepped down in the U.S., and Bush needs to stop inflicting fear into the minds of Americans of "radical islamics" the way Hitler inflicted fear in the minds of Germans of "prominent jews", so that Americans will not blindly support the war in Iraq and the denial of "Habeas Corpus" to the prisoners at Guantanamo Bay.
Crazy Russian
Banned forever!
- 24 Feb 2006
- 94
- 4
Russia, China and North Korea are the arch-enemies of the USA. Russia is the enemy because it is only Russia that can demolish the United States. Most American politicians avow it. China and North Korea are the ideological enemies of America. It is impossible to manipulate them.
Look at the countries that neighbour Russia. The US government do want them to hate Russia and consequently Russia to dislike them. Moreover, the US government do its utmost for the reciprocal hostility to exist. Fortunately, most of the Russians defy it and the Russian government keeps on maintaining friendly relations with all nations and does not give way to its temper, under whatever American provocation. However, the Latvian, Estonian, Moldavian, Polish, Georgian, Ukrainian, etc. governments hate Russia. Our next-door neighbours Ukraine and Georgia have already had the US forces in their countries. The American state-mongers (as well as two Washington puppets: the Ukrainian president Yushchenko and the Georgian president Saakashvili) say to the Ukrainians and Georgians: "Russia is your enemy! We are here to protect you from the mad Russian bear! Russia wants to enslave you! You can be free only with the Americans!"
There are almost similar relations between "the other countries" (as the American bloke called them) and Japan. China being the enemy of the USA, there must be the US forces in some neighbouring country. Japan is the best place for them. The US government do its utmost for China and Japan to hate each other. Nevertheless, it is not enough for the USA. The USA desires the other neighbouring countries to hate Japan. No wonder if some Japanese people think to themselves: "Damn it! The other countries hate us. The Americans must protect us from them! Let them stay in Japan!"
By posting this message, I also want to indicate one more time that the US government cannot be your friend. As to me, I am willing to be friends with the Americans. However, I am unwilling to be friends with the American politicians and to perceive the US foreign policy as good and careful one. The American double standards drive me the hell mad! It is time to revalue all American values. It is time to revalue the USA. Wherever America extends it defiles cultures.
Many American politicians and people named the USSR "The Evil Empire". Why cannot I name the USA "The Dominant Terrorist Superpower". Especially since, the USA is the Dominant Terrorist Superpower indeed.
So is Koizumi a puppet? To tell the truth, it is very difficult question to answer. I think he is not. Moreover, I do not blame the Japanese government. It is forced to be the US' ally.
The Japanese and the Chinese as well as "the other countries" must be together. They must be friends and look narrowly at the USA. In addition, tell to the US forces "3.14ss off!!!" Let the Yankees get out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Japan, Ukraine, Georgia, India, etc.!
I think that Japan must have its own full value army and dismiss the Yankees.Did they (the stupid American politicians) expect us to treat them with any respect?!! (Pink Floyd)
Japan, China and Russia (as well as all the other countries) must be as closer to each other as possible to stand against the American terrorism. It is then that everything will be okay.
The Americans should not be surprised when I call the USA The Dominant Terrorist Superpower and call Bush The Terrorist Number 1. Don't they know that it was Bush who organised the terrorist acts on the 11th of September? Usama Bin Laden is the best friend of Mr Bush. My conjectures proved to be true after watching "Fahrenheit 9/11" by Michael Moore. The British dude from Number 10 is also a terrorist, is not he?
How can the American political dolboyobs and raspizdyays (the words from Anthony Burgess' Nadsat slang) discourse on "war" "protection", et cetera? They do not know what these words mean. All the American politicians can do is extirpating the American Indians, humiliating the Afro-Americans (by the way it is only the American Indians and the Afro-Americans who have a right to live in the USA), bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, bombing Dresden, killing innocent Iraqi children, abusing the Iraqi prisoners, destabilising the situation in the world and the like. So heroic, golden and justified deeds! Are not they?
I am sorry for the "awful truth" but you must ascertain it. In addition, please do not be afraid to call the things by their right names.
Children's happiness and liberty are the most important things we all have. Stop killing children! Stop raping liberty! Otherwise, "Goodbye blue sky. Goodbye"?!
Here Mr Crazy Russian stands.
Look at the countries that neighbour Russia. The US government do want them to hate Russia and consequently Russia to dislike them. Moreover, the US government do its utmost for the reciprocal hostility to exist. Fortunately, most of the Russians defy it and the Russian government keeps on maintaining friendly relations with all nations and does not give way to its temper, under whatever American provocation. However, the Latvian, Estonian, Moldavian, Polish, Georgian, Ukrainian, etc. governments hate Russia. Our next-door neighbours Ukraine and Georgia have already had the US forces in their countries. The American state-mongers (as well as two Washington puppets: the Ukrainian president Yushchenko and the Georgian president Saakashvili) say to the Ukrainians and Georgians: "Russia is your enemy! We are here to protect you from the mad Russian bear! Russia wants to enslave you! You can be free only with the Americans!"
There are almost similar relations between "the other countries" (as the American bloke called them) and Japan. China being the enemy of the USA, there must be the US forces in some neighbouring country. Japan is the best place for them. The US government do its utmost for China and Japan to hate each other. Nevertheless, it is not enough for the USA. The USA desires the other neighbouring countries to hate Japan. No wonder if some Japanese people think to themselves: "Damn it! The other countries hate us. The Americans must protect us from them! Let them stay in Japan!"
By posting this message, I also want to indicate one more time that the US government cannot be your friend. As to me, I am willing to be friends with the Americans. However, I am unwilling to be friends with the American politicians and to perceive the US foreign policy as good and careful one. The American double standards drive me the hell mad! It is time to revalue all American values. It is time to revalue the USA. Wherever America extends it defiles cultures.
Many American politicians and people named the USSR "The Evil Empire". Why cannot I name the USA "The Dominant Terrorist Superpower". Especially since, the USA is the Dominant Terrorist Superpower indeed.
So is Koizumi a puppet? To tell the truth, it is very difficult question to answer. I think he is not. Moreover, I do not blame the Japanese government. It is forced to be the US' ally.
The Japanese and the Chinese as well as "the other countries" must be together. They must be friends and look narrowly at the USA. In addition, tell to the US forces "3.14ss off!!!" Let the Yankees get out of Iraq, Afghanistan, Japan, Ukraine, Georgia, India, etc.!
I think that Japan must have its own full value army and dismiss the Yankees.Did they (the stupid American politicians) expect us to treat them with any respect?!! (Pink Floyd)
Japan, China and Russia (as well as all the other countries) must be as closer to each other as possible to stand against the American terrorism. It is then that everything will be okay.
The Americans should not be surprised when I call the USA The Dominant Terrorist Superpower and call Bush The Terrorist Number 1. Don't they know that it was Bush who organised the terrorist acts on the 11th of September? Usama Bin Laden is the best friend of Mr Bush. My conjectures proved to be true after watching "Fahrenheit 9/11" by Michael Moore. The British dude from Number 10 is also a terrorist, is not he?
How can the American political dolboyobs and raspizdyays (the words from Anthony Burgess' Nadsat slang) discourse on "war" "protection", et cetera? They do not know what these words mean. All the American politicians can do is extirpating the American Indians, humiliating the Afro-Americans (by the way it is only the American Indians and the Afro-Americans who have a right to live in the USA), bombing Hiroshima and Nagasaki, bombing Dresden, killing innocent Iraqi children, abusing the Iraqi prisoners, destabilising the situation in the world and the like. So heroic, golden and justified deeds! Are not they?
I am sorry for the "awful truth" but you must ascertain it. In addition, please do not be afraid to call the things by their right names.
Children's happiness and liberty are the most important things we all have. Stop killing children! Stop raping liberty! Otherwise, "Goodbye blue sky. Goodbye"?!
Here Mr Crazy Russian stands.
Carlson
Stay At Home Mom!
- 30 Oct 2005
- 1,136
- 15
im going to stop listening to people in this posts. many of them are just not sure what the heck they are talking about. I will take and try to understand what many of the japanese members that live in Japan think but other then that people just really dont know how much we do.
Tatsuhiro_Zensu
SNLF Fanatic
- 9 Aug 2005
- 12
- 0
I agree that America should leave Japan. During WW2 Japan was amazing, but with its industrial base think what it could do now. Japan has gotten far to passive, they should return to at least some semblance of their WW2 self, only thing I would change is the atrocious human rights violations.
Sukotto
先輩
- 9 Jul 2003
- 1,426
- 20
Crazy Russian - all governments have their own self interests.
Russia today has 36 billions, when before they changed their
religion from state communism to state capitalism there were none.
Ruling classes under either guise or whatever guise, always have
the security of their own self-interests first at heart.
But you knew that.
Russia today has 36 billions, when before they changed their
religion from state communism to state capitalism there were none.
Ruling classes under either guise or whatever guise, always have
the security of their own self-interests first at heart.
But you knew that.
Carlson said:
Last edited:
changedonrequest
Sempai
- 5 Feb 2006
- 114
- 0
That all depends on who the bomb is dropped on in the first place whether or not it is aid to humanity.
changedonrequest
Sempai
- 5 Feb 2006
- 114
- 0
Sukotto said:
And Jeffery Dalmer had a "bomb" dropped on him whilst he was in prison as well.
At little late, but still a humanitarian gesture if you ask me.
