China was never a country until the late 1800s. In fact, there was never a country officially called "China" until the late 1800s. The word Chinese also doesn't exist until the late 1800s. The last so-called Chinese dynasty wasn't even ruled by the Chinese but by the Manchurians. If you could, put aside your chinese nationalistic thinking, read books on chinese history written by western authors. You will find out China isn't as a great nation as you were told back in school.
Yeah, but you could use those arguments against just about any country. Germany and Italy didn't exist as countries until the late 19th century either.
Chinese civilization, as distinct from ethnic and political institutions, goes back thousands of years.
Interesting thread. Japan does have a tendancy to overlook its less pacifist history, forgetting that 60 years ago is not that long in the history books. As to rewriting history, all countries do it to some degree, but Japan as a developed country seems to do a 'better' job of it.
I would liken a lot of the right wing history revisionists, who seem to have support in the LDP (both active and passive), to fundamental nationalist builders. What has scared me more than anything since moving to Japan is having foreginers in Japan buying into the arguement of Japan as a victim and that Koizumi and co are not dangerous for the nationalism they seem to be stoking. Of course, changes are coming slowly, but this has been the general history of Japan, slow changes (excepting the modernization push after WWII, which was relatively speedy).
As to real value changes, I don't seem to really see the Japanese as people or as a nation moving much beyond the 'us and them' mentality which is so deeply entrenched here, but that and the above of course are my opinions.
Hmm, I've never heard this sort of thing before. It must be all that influence from living there and absorbing it.
Objectively speaking, although Japan can be classified as a victim as to the nuclear bombs in WWII and were unprecedented, I don't think it's justified to say that, per se. Because in war, everyone is a victim in one way or another - you can argue this all day because a country is bound to have casualties in war. It all boils down to relativeness - whichever side suffers the most harm and whether they were active or passive in war, determines whether they are victims. In Japan's case, personally I wouldn't label them as a 'victim' if one word is required, but as one of the two major 'aggressors' through evaluating active deeds, atrocities and participation.
gaijinalways said:
[Some believe] that Koizumi and co are not dangerous for the nationalism they seem to be stoking. Of course, changes are coming slowly ... I don't seem to really see the Japanese as people or as a nation moving much beyond the 'us and them' mentality.
Well, some things like nationalism in Japan have been so deep rooted that it's already a part of culture - leading to the the 'us and them' mentality as culture. And culture is very difficult to change unless a country faces substantial natural or man-made disasters or through a change in Government (which in Japan, the LDP is forever dominant so that's very unlikely). Because of it being culture, I don't think there will be any large changes for years on end.
You are so right, I even notice this by the few Japanese who live in Holland. They don't like to mix with us unless they have to by just being polite.
Have you any idea where this comes from? Island people?
But then why do Indonesians where every single one lives on a island mix well with other nations?
Is it the Shinto , the Japanese religion? I really wonder.
During the Summer we see many Japanese over here in Europe, taking many
pictures. Do the Japanese people who pay so much money to visit Europe like what they see? Why do they never smile? Always looking so serious, never having fun.
I know a Japanese professor living near the Hague in Holland. Prof. Muraoka, brings people from the former Dutch East Indies and Japanese people, mostly student once a year together. But nor the Japanese girls nor the young men talk to us. Mr.Muraoka is a Christian. He told me that there are 1 million Christians in Japan, that is 1% of the whole population.
Two years ago Mr.Muraoka went to Indonesia, he and his wife visited my boarding school in Malang and they even visited the plantation Sumber Sewu, my last home in Indonesia. He told me that in his head he could see me there as a young Dutch girl.
Japanese people don't have to be such islanders, they can become one of us.
If... they want to.
I disagree. If anything, Indonesians are equally or more nationalist than Japan. They're the main proponents of Anti-US campaigns in Asia, and many other anti's. Often, in relativeness, you see strife, protests and arson committed for these causes in Indonesia.
I think who you're referring to are Singaporeans or Malaysians, as to those who mix quite well.
I'll leave the rest of your post for gaijinalways to whom you directed it.
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