Sudden tests of your Japanese skill...

[yukio_michael]

Well, I had another one of those tonight, it went okay, though I kept thinkng after the stage fright "well, I could have phrased that much much better"....

A group of Japanese students/ or exchange students / group school touritsts came in to the store I work at tonight, and first time through, I helped them to pay for thieir things by telling them how much it was in Japanese...

The second time around was little bit trickier, as they saw that something should have been 50% on a second purchase... I didn't know what they were refering to so, in Japanese, I asked them, what they were refering to, and where they found it... after that I was able to ring up their purchases... They seemed as eager as I was to speak Japanese to speak English to me...

Both of our languages, my Japanese, and their English must have sounded rough... I'm much out of practice, and it's funny, that when I said "okane, daijoubu desu" when they started takig out money... because I couldn't figure out how the best way to run a traveller's cheque (where they endorse it... remind you, they signed in kanji)... they were surprised I spoke (rudimentary) Japanese, and I wound up helping the the exact same girls the second time around.

What I think I want to say here, is that you should never feel bad about possibly saying things the "wrong way".... We wound up understanding each other, despite our language differences, and their English was probably worse than my Japanese...

It made me feel really good to be able to interact with people even in just this rudimentary way--- though I felt a bit of "stage fright"... you know.... I know that there are things I should have known better to say... but when you dont speak to people in Japananese everyday, it catches you off guard...

Interesting experience. It's just made me want to really start studying again.

 

[northsider1983]

Thats cool! I was sitting next to a Japanese couple and their kid at the train station today. I had the urge to sit next to them and [attempt to] chat. I got mighty scared though. :-]

 

[Damicci]

Yukio, I can understand how you feel. Especially when Japanese person finds out a non Japanese native can speak Japanese they turn on the works, and then start blaring out Japanese at light speed.

But I think I wouldn't have mind it myself, seeing as your rusty and still most definately better than i.

 

[Goldiegirl]

Great story. I have stage fright just saying Hello in Japanese! It is a special feeling to know you can understand and be understood in a different language. How nice for them to have run into you, I am sure they will always remember you and how you helped them!

 

[nhk9]

Yukio san

It`s just a matter of exposure. When you`ve done the same thing ten times, you will have confidence in using it to others.

If you are afraid of making mistakes, you can always try to talk to your friends first. Let them help you out. By the time you know what to say, you won`t feel that stage fright anymore. Just don`t expect everything to go perfectly, but eventually your confidence will grow along with your skills.

 

[yukio_michael]

Yukio, I can understand how you feel. Especially when Japanese person finds out a non Japanese native can speak Japanese they turn on the works, and then start blaring out Japanese at light speed.

I know... It happens, and you are like woah woah YUKURI YURURI!... slowly please..... I thought of all the things I could have said...

It seems the more complicated Japanese you might use, the more you can get yourself in neck deep... had I said, "Okyakusan, hai, irasshaimasen".... and that's not very complex, just "okyakusan" which isnt very well known (I mean as a casual vocab phrase) as "customer".... that I could have gotten myself into one of those conversations where they thought I was more fluent than I was (which was sort of like what happened at the start as always!)....

My Japanese ability (not to toot my own horn) is fairly good, conversationally... I lack vocabulary, kanji, that sort of thing, meaning, I SUCK.... my pronunciation and use of coloquialisms is quite good... but I'm far from literate (conversationalist) meaning, I SUCK.... but i can stil pugialistically rough it out in a conversation...

What I mean to say is that I've seen people who have vastly better knowledge of Japanese and kanji, vocabulary, the works, who are petrified to speak the first word, out of making mistakes...

Instead of saying "Doko desu ka!?", I said "Doko e?" which was understood, as "where to?" instead of what I wanted to say "Where is it at?".... but.... I want to encourage people to use their Japanese that they know, because it puts you in a situation where your engaging in the language you are studying---- the real purpose of it all, not just book talk.

Japanese isn't something such as Spanish, were people might even assume that you speak it... Japanese people are always surprised that you can confer with them, and amongst my coworkers, both times, they were rather astonished I could help the customers in Japanese.... It seems so odd, the language I love, and the random chances I get to use it.

Great story. I have stage fright just saying Hello in Japanese! It is a special feeling to know you can understand and be understood in a different language. How nice for them to have run into you, I am sure they will always remember you and how you helped them!

What's made me smile is the look on their face when I use a Japansese word outside of the typical "arigatou---" etc, that catches them off gaurd... I know I'm not speaking perfect Japanese, especially to a customer... but, they're always pleased, always happy that SOMEBODY knows their language, has taken an interest in it, and studied it... I hate that feeling of "stage fright"... this only happens with people I don't know, strangers, and I know that my ability is better than what I'm speaking... but like you say, they'll walk away knowing there is that one person who was able to speak Japanese to them. Kakkokii ne!???

 

[nhk9]

Yukio, I can understand how you feel. Especially when Japanese person finds out a non Japanese native can speak Japanese they turn on the works, and then start blaring out Japanese at light speed.

But I think I wouldn't have mind it myself, seeing as your rusty and still most definately better than i.

I think that`s actually a good sign. You may have heard Japanese people talking slowly (as if they were talking to children), simply because they think that your Japanese isn`t good enough.

When Japanese people talk to me in English, I will usually use my normal speed. Unless they tell me to slow down normally I wouldn`t speak slowly simply because I think they are Japanese. I think they deserved to be treated equally.

I know... It happens, and you are like woah woah YUKURI YURURI!... slowly please..... I thought of all the things I could have said...

It seems the more complicated Japanese you might use, the more you can get yourself in neck deep... had I said, "Okyakusan, hai, irasshaimasen".... and that's not very complex, just "okyakusan" which isnt very well known (I mean as a casual vocab phrase) as "customer".... that I could have gotten myself into one of those conversations where they thought I was more fluent than I was (which was sort of like what happened at the start as always!)....

My Japanese ability (not to toot my own horn) is fairly good, conversationally... I lack vocabulary, kanji, that sort of thing, meaning, I SUCK.... my pronunciation and use of coloquialisms is quite good... but I'm far from literate (conversationalist) meaning, I SUCK.... but i can stil pugialistically rough it out in a conversation...

What I mean to say is that I've seen people who have vastly better knowledge of Japanese and kanji, vocabulary, the works, who are petrified to speak the first word, out of making mistakes...

Instead of saying "Doko desu ka!?", I said "Doko e?" which was understood, as "where to?" instead of what I wanted to say "Where is it at?".... but.... I want to encourage people to use their Japanese that they know, because it puts you in a situation where your engaging in the language you are studying---- the real purpose of it all, not just book talk.

Japanese isn't something such as Spanish, were people might even assume that you speak it... Japanese people are always surprised that you can confer with them, and amongst my coworkers, both times, they were rather astonished I could help the customers in Japanese.... It seems so odd, the language I love, and the random chances I get to use it.

I think this is a good mentality, but have to remember that if you were to use Japanese towards customers, make sure you know the basics of how to greet customers (even if you can`t use eigo). Simply saying òkyakusan will project a bad image, since it`s always 100% okyakusama. But if you are dealing with non-business partners, then feel free to go for it.

 

[SushiShin]

you did a good thing man! and again i must refer you always have cool threads with an interesting volume( in the context of content).
anyway i had the same thing years ago when i approached my first japanese girlfriend i thought i gaved a compliment but after that she hit me with her shoe on my head

i said accidentally [Anata no mune ga sukidesu] instead of [Anata no koto ga sukidesu](i like you) i mistaken koto for mune.

the funny thing is i was still wandering for 2 weeks (after i said that to her) what i had said wrong to her, so i asked a friend and he laughd at me and he said: bakayaro! you said to her you like her breast (0.0')

 

[yukio_michael]

think this is a good mentality, but have to remember that if you were to use Japanese towards customers, make sure you know the basics of how to greet customers (even if you can`t use eigo). Simply saying òkyakusan will project a bad image, since it`s always 100% okyakusama. But if you are dealing with non-business partners, then feel free to go for it.

This gets into one of the discussions of how "things" are refered to verses how they are spoken to, and I'm not to sure that customers haven been refered to as "okyakusama" which is within what I have read.... "okyakusama" isn't even said by kyaku-hiki outside of bars...

I've never been refered to as okyakusama in Japan... but maybe just that the people wouldn't think I'd understand... still, in the United States, I don't think Okyakusan would offend.

i said accidentally [Anata no mune ga sukidesu] instead of [Anata no koto ga sukidesu](i like you) i mistaken koto for mune.

Love in any language is roughl.... consider how closely "kowai" (pittifull, sad, scary), vs (kawaii), "cute, etcetara) is.... at LEAST in pronuciation!!!

 

[nice gaijin]

i said accidentally [Anata no mune ga sukidesu] instead of [Anata no koto ga sukidesu](i like you) i mistaken koto for mune.

Liar, no one mistakes mune for koto; you knew exactly what you were saying!

 

[Goldiegirl]

Ok, what was he saying? I can't read Japanese!

 

[Damicci]

Mune can mean either chest or breast. So more than likely she understood it as breast.

 

[nhk9]

This gets into one of the discussions of how "things" are refered to verses how they are spoken to, and I'm not to sure that customers haven been refered to as "okyakusama" which is within what I have read.... "okyakusama" isn't even said by kyaku-hiki outside of bars...

I've never been refered to as okyakusama in Japan... but maybe just that the people wouldn't think I'd understand... still, in the United States, I don't think Okyakusan would offend.

Well if you always want to play the dumb gaijin card, it really helps, especially if you look like a European (or basically non-Eastern Asian looking) From what I`ve seen and heard, it is almost unheard of for customers to be addressed as òkyakusan directly. That is, if you want to resemble anything close to professionalism. Perhaps in rural areas where customers and shop owners are very familiar with each other would okyakusan perhaps maybe used. In Japan, customer service is always number one, and the first thing that employees are taught are how to greet customers and proper `okotobadukai 言葉遣い。 In the US I think you might get away with it, but if you were to go closer to the land of the rising sun, you might want to reconsider.ﾂ

 

[yukio_michael]

Well if you always want to play the dumb gaijin card, it really helps, especially if you look like a European (or basically non-Eastern Asian looking) From what I`ve seen and heard, it is almost unheard of for customers to be addressed as òkyakusan directly. That is, if you want to resemble anything close to professionalism. Perhaps in rural areas where customers and shop owners are very familiar with each other would okyakusan perhaps maybe used. In Japan, customer service is always number one, and the first thing that employees are taught are how to greet customers and proper `okotobadukai``言葉遣い。 In the US I think you might get away with it, but if you were to go closer to the land of the rising sun, you might want to reconsider.

I just don't think my refering to someone as okyakukusan would have offended anyone in the slightest,, outside of Japan... I'll admit my ignorance here, I've not heard Okotobudkai, ------I've not ever read of it being impolite to refer to customers as okyakusan, in fact that's how my native ex refers to them....

I don't think I'll be in this position much, but I'll consider your comments more closely.

 

[SushiShin]

Liar, no one mistakes mune for koto; you knew exactly what you were saying!

No no no really i mistaken words. This happen to me alot in different languages, like in english i always say:
"give me my radio" instead of cellphone/mobile phone
really at that time i really had mistaken myself, thats why she hitted my head with her shoe. That was a funny moment, about the kowai and kawaii stuff i still have problems with that
pffff i miss the funny moments, its pity time goes fast.

 

[Nicky]

I'm basically just completely petrified of speaking Japanese in front of people now. My entire vocabulary goes out the window any time I have to speak.

 

[Charles Barkley]

That's rough with the 'mune ga suki desu.' One time at this gender bender party, I was talking to this girl in a tuxedo, when I noticed that something was amiss with her costume, so I said, "anata no bowtie wa chotto hen. sawarasetekurenai?" That landed me in a world of hurt.

I'm going to have to back up the idea that saying お客さん would sound very weird. Someone called me お客さん today and I was a bit taken aback (a little offended). ９９％ of the time its お客様. But then again, no one expects much out of foreigners, so I doubt Japanese traveling in america (?) were offended in the slightest. My biggest problem with that word is that, in any context, I add 様, since when I hear it spoken, the suffix is always attached.

 

[SushiShin]

"anata no bowtie wa chotto hen. sawarasetekurenai?"

what does this means? ☝

just wondering

(^__^')greetz Herbal☆.

 

[tanhql]

"anata no bowtie wa chotto hen. sawarasetekurenai?"
what does this means? ☝
just wondering
(^__^')greetz Herbal☆.

if i'm not wrong, it means 'your bowtie is a bit strange. can you let me touch it?'

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

On the "okyakusan" issue, basically, I agree with everything that has been said so far. If you are in Japan, it is almost always "okyakusama" when addressing a customer. I can't comment on kyakubiki too much, as I don't have much experience with them, but in regular situations, "okyakusan" would never fly unless you're talking in the 3rd person, and even then, I personally wouldn't recommend saying it if any other customers were in earshot.

However, having said that, I think that Japanese people going to some random store and being greeted with any amount of Japanese would take no offence at being called "okyakusan". In fact, they would probably find it to be rather cute.

It would be 'better' to use the more polite form, and if you can you should, but I agree with Yukio's opening idea that you shouldn't be afraid to use what you know.

After all, 失敗は成功の素 (failure is the base of success)
and
サルも木から落ちる (even monkeys fall from trees OR everyone makes mistakes)

 

[misa.j]

Nice story Yukio, it's always nice to see someone who speaks the language you know in a foreign country.

As for how to address your customers, there are several work places where you would definitely have to be on your toes all the time and be as polite as you can like hotels or restaurants, but at a retail store level, "okyakusan" is perfectly fine.

 

[basuotoko]

Situations like this can be a little awkward, I think. The thing that bothers me most in Japan is when a stranger on the street approaches and speaks to me in English, asking me for no apparent reason if I need directions. Or when a store clerk switches into slow, deliberate English because I ask them to repeat something. I wonder if Japanese in America feel the same way about situations like these or if it happens so rarely that they just find it amusing. I guess it kind of depends on the situation.

 

[yukio_michael]

Situations like this can be a little awkward, I think. The thing that bothers me most in Japan is when a stranger on the street approaches and speaks to me in English, asking me for no apparent reason if I need directions. Or when a store clerk switches into slow, deliberate English because I ask them to repeat something. I wonder if Japanese in America feel the same way about situations like these or if it happens so rarely that they just find it amusing. I guess it kind of depends on the situation.

All of the people seemed to be on a group tour, and didn't seem as if they were residents whatsoever, otherwise, I wouldn't have used Japanese... In fact, I think I was the only person who could gauge their English level, and I hope, I think, that they felt my Japanese helpful, rather than insulting....

I think if someone is a resident of your city, you shouldn't simply assume that they aren't capable of speaking your native language (though there are more than a few students here who either a) can't speak very good English and don't plan on learning, or b) prefer not to speak English).

I think it's a tad insulting that it sometimes gets thrown around that Americans are these dumb sheltered idiots who walk into foreign countries shouting nothing but English to people... We're not as exposed to languages other than Spanish/English, so we're a little bit insuluar there, but the people I've known who've gone to other countries where English was ot widely spoken have at least tried their best...

Unfortunately it seems many of the students who are given grants to go to school in the United States don't really bother to learn English whatsoever, because perhaps they are in fields like math or science which opperate on fundamental concepts, many of the med students I've met here don't seem to bother with learning the language... I just don't think the opposite would fly for an American studying abroad... We're both assumed to be ignorant, and at the same time the United States presents a broad level of opportunities for people to get a better education than they could at home, and be completely insular in langauge and culture.

Anyways... the customers, the females, we're very polite... The Japanese males were much like they were in Japan, sort of roucus self-focused and noisy at times... but they're young, and that's generally how young Japanese males can be.

ps. Thanks for the people chiming in on okyakusan/okyakusama question... though of course, I never think I'll be in that position any time soon, it's good to know. Thanks for all the advice.

 

[Charles Barkley]

if i'm not wrong, it means 'your bowtie is a bit strange. can you let me touch it?'

だいたい正しい。もう一度当ててごらん。


（メッセージは小さすぎるか。何でそんな条件）

 

[basuotoko]

All of the people seemed to be on a group tour, and didn't seem as if they were residents whatsoever, otherwise, I wouldn't have used Japanese... In fact, I think I was the only person who could gauge their English level, and I hope, I think, that they felt my Japanese helpful, rather than insulting....

I think if someone is a resident of your city, you shouldn't simply assume that they aren't capable of speaking your native language (though there are more than a few students here who either a) can't speak very good English and don't plan on learning, or b) prefer not to speak English).

I think it's a tad insulting that it sometimes gets thrown around that Americans are these dumb sheltered idiots who walk into foreign countries shouting nothing but English to people... We're not as exposed to languages other than Spanish/English, so we're a little bit insuluar there, but the people I've known who've gone to other countries where English was ot widely spoken have at least tried their best...

Unfortunately it seems many of the students who are given grants to go to school in the United States don't really bother to learn English whatsoever, because perhaps they are in fields like math or science which opperate on fundamental concepts, many of the med students I've met here don't seem to bother with learning the language... I just don't think the opposite would fly for an American studying abroad... We're both assumed to be ignorant, and at the same time the United States presents a broad level of opportunities for people to get a better education than they could at home, and be completely insular in langauge and culture.

Anyways... the customers, the females, we're very polite... The Japanese males were much like they were in Japan, sort of roucus self-focused and noisy at times... but they're young, and that's generally how young Japanese males can be.

ps. Thanks for the people chiming in on okyakusan/okyakusama question... though of course, I never think I'll be in that position any time soon, it's good to know. Thanks for all the advice.

You make some good points. Out of curiosity, I asked one of my friends who studied in the US how she would feel if a clerk spoke to her in Japanese when she went shopping there, and she said she'd feel more surprised and amused than offended, simply because it would be so unusual. But she also said that a "strange" American guy once walked up to her out of the blue and started speaking in Japanese, and it made her feel uneasy.

In Japan, everyone and their mom wants to speak English which can be annoying for foreigners trying to be taken seriously, while in America, you know, like less than 1% of the population knows Japanese from Greek. I think that's the big difference. So in other words, if you want to try out your Japanese in America it seems like most of them actually don't mind, as long as you do it tastefully and don't come across as a big geek (ie. ask them about karate or Dragon Ball Z). lol.