Speaking Japanese

[Jdzspace]

こ is the counter for small objects, so it's not incorrect. つ is the general counter used for things that don't have a special counter already, or when you can't think of/don't know the appropriate counter.

ひとつ (一つ) is specifically ONE thing. In this case, the kanji ichi (一) is read ひと.

EDIT: In other words, both are correct. Also, here's an nice big list of counters for you: Japanese counter word - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

so how do I say Ni hon without it coming back as "japan"?

they are said exactly the same, so i'm at a loss here. there is no longated vowel or anything of the sort to differentiate it from "nihon"

I guess if i was talking to an actual person, they would understand what i meant by context. but it makes it VERY VERY hard when i'm trying to work on my pronunciation and it seems to be pronounced the same as "japan"

 

[Angel Valis]

so how do I say Ni hon without it coming back as "japan"?

Uh...context haha. As usual. There may be some pitch difference, but that's a rather advanced topic that usually doesn't prevent you from getting your point across.

Example: 端, 橋, and 箸 are all read はし, but mean "edge", "bridge", and "chopsticks" respectively. However, if you're in a restaurant, they will probably bring you chopsticks regardless of the pitch you use. Also, the pitch pattern is different depending on the dialect.

 

[Jdzspace]

Uh...context haha. As usual. There may be some pitch difference, but that's a rather advanced topic that usually doesn't prevent you from getting your point across.

Example: 端, 橋, and 箸 are all read はし, but mean "edge", "bridge", and "chopsticks" respectively. However, if you're in a restaurant, they will probably bring you chopsticks regardless of the pitch you use. Also, the pitch pattern is different depending on the dialect.

lol, phew, i thought i was screwing it up.

so i'll just skip over trying to pronounce that particular word in a way that makes it come across as i'm trying to get it to come across. as long as i remember the type of object that nihon is used to count (which I actually don't recall now) i'll be fine. .......crap. lol

might have to do this section over again

 

[Angel Valis]

as long as i remember the type of object that nihon is used to count

ほん（本）is used to count long cylindrical objects. Not books even though 本 is also the word for book (the book counter is さつ (冊)). Think of it this way: when that counter was envisioned, "books" would have been scrolls. 本 is also similar to 木 (き) which means "tree" and trees have long cylindrical trunks which are marked by the little line on 本.

 

[Jdzspace]

ほん（本）is used to count long cylindrical objects. Not books even though 本 is also the word for book (the book counter is さつ (冊)). Think of it this way: when that counter was envisioned, "books" would have been scrolls. 本 is also similar to 木 (き) which means "tree" and trees have long cylindrical trunks which are marked by the little line on 本.

I guess i stumbled into a very complicated part of the language, very basic part of the language. this might take me a while to get down. good thing i have the next two days off. ....i guess

 

[Toritoribe]

There may be some pitch difference

Indeed they are different.

Japanese pitch accent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Angel Valis]

Indeed they are different.

Japanese pitch accent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I thought as much. I just can't read pitch diagrams and understand what they mean. I would need to hear the difference...if I even CAN hear the difference. Darn English and your 強弱 accent!

 

[Jdzspace]

If anyone knows any mnemonics to make this part any easier, all suggestions are welcomed.

 

[Angel Valis]

Counters are important, but don't beat yourself up over them at this point. Even after 4+ years of Japanese in college including studying at Kansai Gaidai University in Osaka, I've maybe only learned a dozen or so counters, maybe fewer.

EDIT: Plus, you need to make sure that you have a grasp of numbers in general because often times, the number part of the counter changes its sound. For example 二本 is read にほん but 一本 is read いっぽん. This change gets easier to predict with new counters the more familiar you are with the numbers.

 

[Jdzspace]

Indeed they are different.

Japanese pitch accent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have no idea how to read that.....I tried saying it while "dragging" the "o"....still comes back Japan.

ugh

 

[Toritoribe]

I would need to hear the difference

Google Translate is sometimes helpful.

Google 翻訳
Google 翻訳

She said "nippon" for 日本, and 二本 sounds more likely みほん to me, but the position of the accent is correct.

including studying at Kansai Gaidai University in Osaka

Confusingly, a decent number of words in Kansai dialect have the COMPLETELY opposite accent position to Standard Japanese. 端 vs 橋 vs 箸 is a typical one.

 

[Angel Valis]

Confusingly, a decent number of words in Kansai dialect have the COMPLETELY opposite accent position to Standard Japanese. 端 vs 橋 vs 箸 is a typical one.

Haha, yes I've heard that before.

I think my problem is that I'm not sure how to express the pitch difference myself. I can hear a (very slight) difference but I'm not sure how to produce it myself. I end up feeling like I'm producing a stress accent like in English rather than a pitch accent.

 

[Jdzspace]

ok, now this is really silly. and i'm not even sure if anyone can help me here. when i first learned how to say book (hon) I had no problem with the word, was able to use it in a sentence, every translator picked it up. easy, breezy......

but now that I am combining it was "ga" with the counting section I am in, everything keeps coming back "honda" ....i'm not sure what I am doing wrong. i've tried different points of emphasis, i've tried just sayin "hon" a hundred times....but when i add "ga" on to it , it keeps coming back "honda".

any advice or how to seperate these two words to negate that coming back Honda?

 

[Jdzspace]

Quick question here......

"Kiwa nan bon arimasuka"

which part of this has anything to do with trees?
as i was breaking down the sentence on my own

kiwa= can
non bon= what this
arimas= is there

but when i put it together it comes back "how many trees are there"

and i'm left feeling :-\

so confused

 

[zakuro]

木は何本ありますか
きはなんぼんありますか
ki = tree and wa is the particle.
nanbon = how many using the 本 counter.
where did you get kiwa = can?

 

[Jdzspace]

does Ki also mean tree?

 

[Mike Cash]

I looked at JA Sensei.

It is better than nothing, but the "lessons" are hardly deserving of the name.

 

[Jdzspace]

木は何本ありますか
きはなんぼんありますか
ki = tree and wa is the particle.
nanbon = how many using the 本 counter.
where did you get kiwa = can?

when i write き
into google translator, it comes back "can"

 

[Jdzspace]

I looked at JA Sensei.

It is better than nothing, but the "lessons" are hardly deserving of the name.

one of the reasons it's a supplement, and not my one and only.

it helped immensely when it came to stroke order and just having something to spew words at me while i sleep and am driving. but I would in no way suggest it being the sole source for learning the language

 

[zakuro]

when i write 窶堋ｫ
into google translator, it comes back "can"

...I don't know why you're using Google translate as a dictionary. Don't do that. Try jisho.org or buy a real dictionary.

 

[Angel Valis]

everything keeps coming back "honda" ....i'm not sure what I am doing wrong. i've tried different points of emphasis, i've tried just sayin "hon" a hundred times....but when i add "ga" on to it , it keeps coming back "honda".

any advice or how to seperate these two words to negate that coming back Honda?

Well, for one thing, voice recognition still isn't perfect, so you shouldn't expect it to be able to work correctly all of the time.

For another thing, I'm guessing that you're enunciating very clearly; especially on the ん in ほん. In this case that's not the best thing to do. When you make an "n" sound your tongue is VERY close to where "d"s are articulated as well. In fact, ん takes on slightly different pronunciations depending on where it is in a word and what comes after it. If it's followed by an "b", or "p" for instance, it becomes an "m" sound. Likewise, when followed by a "g" sound like in が if often sounds more like the "ng" of "ing". The "ng" sound is articulated very close to the place of articulation of "g" so it's easier to make the transition.

when i write き
into google translator, it comes back "can"

Well there's your problem. No really, machine translators get even the simplest things wrong sometimes. Better to use a real dictionary like Jisho.org or ALC. You don't even need to type in Japanese at all for Jisho.org.

 

[Mike Cash]

Can....which "can"?

The auxiliary verb?
The verb meaning to preserve in a container?
The verb meaning to terminate employment?
The noun referring to a metal container?
Slang for the buttocks?
Slang for breasts?

See the problem?

 

[Jdzspace]

Can....which "can"?

The auxiliary verb?
The verb meaning to preserve in a container?
The verb meaning to terminate employment?
The noun referring to a metal container?
Slang for the buttocks?
Slang for breasts?

See the problem?

Mike, i just want to say. I love you bro. lol
you have a way of making me laugh at something that frustrated me so.

but to answer your quesiton, I don't know. my success rate with my google translator app has been 100% up to this point....this is the first time it let me down. and RS actually got it right....don't that beat all?

but yes, message received. I have Jisho bookmarked AND have the app......I should have checked that before bringing it to you guys.

my bad

 

[Foocha]

Oh Google is the funniest thing on Earth. It can do some extremely simple sayings alright, but try putting a complicated sentence translated from English to Japanese, then take the Japanese sentence and have it translate that back into English. I sit around for an hour with people sometimes just throwing things back and forth because it comes out so mangled.

 

[Mike Cash]

Mike, i just want to say. I love you bro. lol
you have a way of making me laugh at something that frustrated me so.

but to answer your quesiton, I don't know. my success rate with my google translator app has been 100% up to this point....this is the first time it let me down. and RS actually got it right....don't that beat all?

but yes, message received. I have Jisho bookmarked AND have the app......I should have checked that before bringing it to you guys.

my bad

I once had an incredibly horrible romaji dictionary. I needed to find the word for "battery" so I looked it up, and told the lady in an electronics shop what I wanted. She just looked at me in total confusion, and I never did get any batteries.

The dictionary listed several Japanese words in romaji, with NO distinction between an electrical battery, a group of artillery pieces, physical assault, etc, you get the picture.

That was the day I decided I was NOT going to carry a dictionary around with me; I would get through my daily life in Japan without one.