Speaking Japanese

[Jdzspace]

I suggest learning kana ASAP. The reason your pronounciation isn't as good as you want it to be is probably because you are still using romaji. There are various ways of writing Japanese using roman characters, and they aren't consistant. You don't really ever know the correct way to pronounce something if it's written with roman letters, and this could lead to incorrect pronounciation and as you've done above not noticing subtle but important differences. So if you learn hiragana and katakana then you should have almost no problems with pronounciation because the sound of Japanese characters are pretty much fully consistant.

lol.....the funny thing is that i DO know Kanji.....well, i know basic kanji, i'm not super strong on the combos.

I do struggle with translating the kanji into romanji. I have spent a lot of time learning kanji without a romanji translation, so i'm just kind of learning how to do romanji so i can talk in forums like this.

there are VERY VERY VERY few things that i'm really confident in at this point in my studies...but Kanji is one of them....basic kanji....VERY basic. lol

gotta start somewhere i guess

 

[Foocha]

lol.....the funny thing is that i DO know Kanji.....well, i know basic kanji, i'm not super strong on the combos.

I do struggle with translating the kanji into romanji. I have spent a lot of time learning kanji without a romanji translation, so i'm just kind of learning how to do romanji so i can talk in forums like this.

there are VERY VERY VERY few things that i'm really confident in at this point in my studies...but Kanji is one of them....basic kanji....VERY basic. lol

gotta start somewhere i guess

Kanji isn't the same as kana, you MUST memorize hiragana and katakana.

 

[Jdzspace]

A good textbook will have audio that comes with it (usually in the form of an attached CD).

Or there are some online lessons from reputable sources like the Japanese Foundation and NHK World. (Probably best in conjunction with a textbook rather than instead of).

i'm still hunting for a "definitive" pronunciation audio companion, i have "learning japanese" by instant immerision that i got on a military base. and of course there is the audio that accompanies human japanese and ja sensei.

but I just feel like there is something that when i listen to it, a light from the heavens shines down on me and it makes complete sense to me. Human Japanese did help i.e. teaching me to have my tongue light graze the roof of my mouth to pronounce the japanese "R" . that's the kind of thing i'm looking.

you know, after saying it out loud....it does sound really silly

 

[Jdzspace]

Kanji isn't the same as kana, you MUST memorize hiragana and katakana.

ugh.....I keep telling myself i will make a set of flash cards that has kana on one side and katakana on the other.....i just keep......I don't know why i'm so hesitant with it. I guess it's because i keep reading it's the equivilant to the cursive alphabet in english.

at least that is how i rationalize it, plus it hasn't come up much in my studies (except in human japanese)

 

[Jdzspace]

but i WILL do that tonight, no more procrastination. don't want to start getting lazy, especially in this basic stage

 

[Mike Cash]

man, just one letter changes everything....it's crazy! I guess my "w" in "wa" just isn't coming through...stupid lazy american tongue

Compare:

Oto 音
Otto 夫
Outo 嘔吐
Otou おとう
Ototo おとと
Otouto 弟
Ototoi 一昨日
Toutoi 尊い
Toutou 等々
Tooi 遠い
Toie と言え
Toi 問い
Tou 問う
Toe 問え
Too 十
Shishi 獅子
Shinshi 紳士
Shisha 死者
Shousha 商社
Shinsha 新車
Shashin 写真

And the list could go on forever.

Have any of the materials you've used so far taught you about glottal stops and elongated vowels? If so, pay extremely careful attention to them. If not, immediately stop what you're doing, learn about them, then go back and relearn everything you thought you had already learned.

There are only five vowel sounds in Japanese. Make sure you use and pronounce them correctly. Missing one can entirely change what you thought you were saying.

Native speakers have the option of being unclear in their pronunciation; we do not.

 

[Jdzspace]

Compare:

Oto 音
Otto 夫
Outo 嘔吐
Otou おとう
Ototo おとと
Otouto 弟
Ototoi 一昨日
Toutoi 尊い
Toutou 等々
Tooi 遠い
Toie と言え
Toi 問い
Tou 問う
Toe 問え
Too 十
Shishi 獅子
Shinshi 紳士
Shisha 死者
Shousha 商社
Shinsha 新車
Shashin 写真

And the list could go on forever.

Have any of the materials you've used so far taught you about glottal stops and elongated vowels? If so, pay extremely careful attention to them. If not, immediately stop what you're doing, learn about them, then go back and relearn everything you thought you had already learned.

There are only five vowel sounds in Japanese. Make sure you use and pronounce them correctly. Missing one can entirely change what you thought you were saying.

Native speakers have the option of being unclear in their pronunciation; we do not.

I have learned about elongated vowels, is "glottal stops" is that the term for the small "tsu" precedes a consonent? if so, i have learned them, but nothing to complicated. just things like "motte imasu" and "kirro" and things of that sort

if not.....damn....

 

[Mike Cash]

That's the general idea. Just make sure you're attentive to them.

 

[Jdzspace]

That's the general idea. Just make sure you're attentive to them.

thank you very much

 

[Toritoribe]

In additon, I've heard that it's also hard for non-native learners to differenciate yōon and ya column syllables(ya, yu, yo), such like 美容院[biyōin] beauty salon vs 病院[byōin] hospital, 婚約[kon'yaku] engagement vs こんにゃく[konnyaku] konjac. This difference is critical, too, as you can see in my examples.

 

[Jdzspace]

In additon, I've heard that it's also hard for non-native learners to differenciate yōon and ya column syllables(ya, yu, yo), such like 美容院[biyōin] beauty salon vs 病院[byōin] hospital, 婚約[kon'yaku] engagement vs こんにゃく[konnyaku] konjac. This difference is critical, too, as you can see in my examples.

yes, yes, good lord yes. I just learned that word in the last section I was in (hospital) and it kept coming up in the translator (i know, i know) as beauty salon.

it is VERY hard to not say that "i" in those words, everytime i have heard a word that is spelled with a consonant followed by "y" it ALWAYS has that "i" sound in it.

i.e. Ryu from street fighter, is pronounced out here as "Ri-you"

so i'm trying really had to re-train myself to NOT do that anymore. it is causing complications, wish there was a short cut

 

[LewiiG]

i.e. Ryu from street fighter, is pronounced out here as "Ri-you"

And actually, if you we're to write his name in romaji, it would be Ryuu 竜 (for dragon). So elongate the u sound too.
When Japanese words are used in English they often miss out extended vowels and pronounce it as if they weren't there. There are a loads examples of this. Main example is toukyou to Tokyo. Others are Nintendou to Nintendo. It happens for names and words, so next time you hear a Japanese word in English, keep this in mind.

 

[Mike Cash]

Hearing the power tool maker "Ryobi" pronounced by Americans is fun. Or helmet maker "Shoei".

My favorite is Kobe Bryant, since his name gets pronounced exactly like 交尾, which my junior high sense of humor finds hilarious.

 

[OoTmaster]

My current sense of humor finds that funny. Note that I don't know the kanji that well, so I had to ask a fluent friend. XD

 

[Jdzspace]

ok, now i just feel like the japanese language is trolling me.

boru means bowl AND ball

spelled differently....sort of, but are both double "o" sounds. how on earth do you differentiate between the two outside of context?

is it ball if spelled in hiragana, and bowl if spelled out in katakana?

 

[nahadef]

ok, now i just feel like the japanese language is trolling me.
boru means bowl AND ball
spelled differently....sort of, but are both double "o" sounds. how on earth do you differentiate between the two outside of context?
is it ball if spelled in hiragana, and bowl if spelled out in katakana?

How do you differentiate between there, their and they're? It's not so hard. Japanese has far more homonyms than English, but it's rarely a problem. As a JSL speaker, confusion comes up less than once a month.

Since ball and bowl are both loan-words, they would both usually be done in katakana.

 

[Jdzspace]

How do you differentiate between there, their and they're? It's not so hard. Japanese has far more homonyms than English, but it's rarely a problem. As a JSL speaker, confusion comes up less than once a month.

Since ball and bowl are both loan-words, they would both usually be done in katakana.

so, context.

since you put it that way. that makes perfect sense. wow......like eye opening perfect sense. lol
thanks a lot

 

[Mike Cash]

ゴム
ガム

カップ
コップ

ガラス
グラス

マシン
ミシン

ストライク
ストライキ

バー
バール

I hate loan words.

 

[Angel Valis]

I hate loan words.

Me too, Mike. I have the horrible habit of coming across katakana and just getting completely stuck. I can read all the kana, but I just get the feeling that I'm supposed to understand what the word is even when it sounds completely different than its English counterpart. Not to mention that the word may have come from some other language but I'm primed to think that katakana = English loanword.

 

[Jdzspace]

i swear......kabutte and Haite both mean wearing?

that seems unnecessarily complicated

i'm guessing, Kabutte is wearing on the head. and Haite is wearing on the lower torso?

 

[nahadef]

i swear......kabutte and Haite both mean wearing?
that seems unnecessarily complicated
i'm guessing, Kabutte is wearing on the head. and Haite is wearing on the lower torso?

Seriously, you have to stop comparing English to Japanese. It comes off as ignorant as when a Japanese person says the same things about English. You were born into an English family, so English seems logical. But that's it. Japanese is not unnecessarily complicated to Japanese kids.

Japanese has four verbs (that I know) for wearing. Hats cover, belts and ties fasten, shirts are worn, and you enter pants and shoes. That's the way it is and it's no worse than when a French person accepts all nouns as masculine or feminine.

Japanese has three words for be: です、ある，いる. That's how it is. Not complicated.

If a Japanese person complained that we use different words to put out a flame and turn off a light, when they are the same in Japanese, well, I'd be more polite than I am here, since they would probably be paying me, but I would explain that you have to accept that the languages are different. Just swallow it, accept it, and learn it. But being critical of it is nonsensical. It's a language, and whatever complication you find in Japanese, I can find more complicated, irregular stuff in English.

For example: what does 'ough' sound like? Four letters. Should be easy to say. Tough. Though. Thought. There you go. I've proven the absolutely unnecessary complication of the English language.

 

[Jdzspace]

Seriously, you have to stop comparing English to Japanese. It comes off as ignorant as when a Japanese person says the same things about English. You were born into an English family, so English seems logical. But that's it. Japanese is not unnecessarily complicated to Japanese kids.

Japanese has four verbs (that I know) for wearing. Hats cover, belts and ties fasten, shirts are worn, and you enter pants and shoes. That's the way it is and it's no worse than when a French person accepts all nouns as masculine or feminine.

Japanese has three words for be: です、ある，いる. That's how it is. Not complicated.

If a Japanese person complained that we use different words to put out a flame and turn off a light, when they are the same in Japanese, well, I'd be more polite than I am here, since they would probably be paying me, but I would explain that you have to accept that the languages are different. Just swallow it, accept it, and learn it. But being critical of it is nonsensical. It's a language, and whatever complication you find in Japanese, I can find more complicated, irregular stuff in English.

For example: what does 'ough' sound like? Four letters. Should be easy to say. Tough. Though. Thought. There you go. I've proven the absolutely unnecessary complication of the English language.

I apologize if i came across overly critical. That wasn't my intention, I'm having a lot of fun learning the language and more about the culture i already liked most of my life.

I just was feeling comfortable with certain things, and it was a curve ball that I wasn't expecting. which is why i asked for clarification, I suppose i could have limited the editorial comments, but i'm only human.

I mean no offense or disrespect to the language. and I understand that language in general have a ton of things like this.....now. it wasn't something i really thought of before taking on this en devour.

I"ll get there, but dont' think i'm overtly being rude or disrespectful to anyone here or the language. It's hard enough to learn on my own, the last thing i want to do is upset those who are willingly helping me out of the goodness of their hearts.

so again, i apologize

 

[nahadef]

No worries, I know what it was like to start studying Japanese. It's different (and for me, mind expanding somewhat, as I saw new ways to consider things). I would emphasize though, you should simply approach it as that: being different. Not weirder, more difficult, or anything else. Things are relative when it comes to languages.

 

[Jdzspace]

No worries, I know what it was like to start studying Japanese. It's different (and for me, mind expanding somewhat, as I saw new ways to consider things). I would emphasize though, you should simply approach it as that: being different. Not weirder, more difficult, or anything else. Things are relative when it comes to languages.

I definitely know that it's not weirder, if anything English is weird. since linguistically i'm pretty sure that Japanese is a MUCH older language than english. it's just tricky from time to time.

it is what it is, but like you said. it's all relative

 

[Angel Valis]

Kabutte is wearing on the head. and Haite is wearing on the lower torso?

*sigh* Only sort of. Those are conjugated forms of those verbs...now I think I may understand why people dislike Rosetta Stone...it's sort of like it's skipping you ahead without the basics.

かぶる [kaburu] is "to wear (a hat)"
はく [haku] is "to wear (pants)"

Additionally:
きる [kiru] is "to wear (a shirt)" (also sort of general)
する [suru] is "to wear (accessories)"

Those are the dictionary or plain forms. They are exceedingly useful and important to know and you probably should have learned those first. What you saw, "kabutte" and "haite" are the te-forms of those verbs which, generally speaking, allow them to function as conjunctions or to accept an auxiliary verb. In your case, I'm guessing they were followed by "imasu", "masu", or "iru". That would be the progressive tense, similar to "ing" in English.