Should Japan Abolish Kanji?

[-Rudel-]

Let's say they did abolished the Kanji (Except for En, and the numbers)...What would the new rules be?

1. Spaced out words

2. All foreign words are Katakana

3. Words that have the same sounds/spelling, will be distinguished by a new tick mark. (*) as apposed to the traditional (" °)

4. Particals will be identified by using the apostrophe between the word and partical.

Example: げんき です'か。 わたし'は アメリカ'から きます。 はじめました 。 どぞ よろしく。


Confusing indeed. May take several years to get Japan to switch over and have all students that are currently in school learn the new way.

 

[ToMach]

Several posters have brought up the well-heard argument that the sheer number of homonyms alone makes kanji irreplaceable.
If that is true, how do people manage to communicate in every-day, spoken Japanese, where there are no kanji?

Many of the so-called homonyms have in fact different accent patterns, which enables to make the difference between them in the spoken language. But the writing system doesn't mark the accent, so kanji are very useful there. Also, the writen language uses much more complex words than the spoken language, but their meaning can sometimes easily guessed from the kanji.

Let's say they did abolished the Kanji (Except for En, and the numbers)...What would the new rules be
1. Spaced out words
2. All foreign words are Katakana
3. Words that have the same sounds/spelling, will be distinguished by a new tick mark. (*) as apposed to the traditional (" ﾂ≫?ｹ)
4. Particals will be identified by using the apostrophe between the word and partical.

I agree for 1, maybe 2. 3 is unnecessary if we mark word accent by a diacritic (ex: ' ). 4 is also unnecessary: we can just put a space between the word and the particle
ex: そ'れ でも かんじ を はいし しない ほ'う が い'い と おもいま'す
I still think kanji should not be abolished

 

[Dream Time]

I am strongly against it!!

reason:
I am a Chinese, and I don't understand Japanese, when I read japanese I could kinda guess the meaning by reading the Kanji characters
if they are abolished then I won't be able to understand at all

 

[Suki-Yaki]

Let's say they did abolished the Kanji (Except for En, and the numbers)...What would the new rules be?

1. Spaced out words

2. All foriegn words are Katakana

3. Words that have the same sounds/spelling, will be distinguished by a new tick mark. (*) as apposed to the traditional (" ﾂ≫?ｹ)

4. Particals will be identified by using the apostrophe between the word and partical.

Example: 窶堋ｰ窶堙ｱ窶堋ｫﾂ 窶堙??堋ｷ'窶堋ｩﾂ。 窶堙ｭ窶堋ｽ窶堋ｵ'窶堙債 ﾆ但ﾆ陳?椎?ﾆ谷'窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧﾂ 窶堋ｫ窶堙懌?堋ｷﾂ。ﾂ 窶堙坂?堋ｶ窶堙溪?堙懌?堋ｵ窶堋ｽﾂ。ﾂ 窶堙??堋ｼﾂ 窶堙ｦ窶堙ｫ窶堋ｵ窶堋ｭﾂ。


Confusing indeed. May take several years to get Japan to switch over and have all students that are currently in school learn the new way.

Sounds to me quite the way westerners would like Japanese language to be , but this is not th west now is it ??

 

[Ewok85]

And for who would these changes have a benefit?
Lazy students of Japanese who think its "too hard/complex/absurd"

Theres some things I'd like to change about english, such as a standard English (English English). None of this American/Australia english etc. Abolish silent letters (which would just cause the same hononym problem...). Proper teaching of how grammar works.

 

[Mycernius]

And for who would these changes have a benefit?
Lazy students of Japanese who think its "too hard/complex/absurd"

Theres some things I'd like to change about english, such as a standard English (English English). None of this American/Australia english etc. Abolish silent letters (which would just cause the same hononym problem...). Proper teaching of how grammar works.

That's what Noah Webster did in America, and the reason why Americans spell some words differently to British English. Actually the silent letters in English were pronouced in the past, so 'Knife' would be said as it is spelt as goes for 'Know' and 'Knight'. Over the years the letters have lost their sound to become silent. That is why English now can be so difficult to spell. But this is found in other languages, even in Japanese. In some cases the 'u' or 'i' sound is lost ie: Desu, hajimemashite (Correct me if I'm wrong)

 

[Leroy_Brown]

I don't think "desu" was ever pronounced "deh soo" with a long "oo"

 

[RinoaRita]

I have mixed feelings. On one hand, I find kanji easier to read when there is furigana next to them. All hiragana seems cumbersome to read.

On the other hand, I was trying to read natsume soseki 's sanshiro in japanese and I couldn't get through the first page because of all the kanji. I read the translated version in one night. I'd like to think of my self as fleunt conversationally. However, reading kanji is the biggest obstacle to me reading japanese literture. Maybe more books should have furigana?

I'm not sure how the situation is in Japan but I def. feel that it keeps the uneducated from knowing too much. You can't read the paper w/o knowing a lot of kanji, even if you know the words.

 

[P_RayDub]

The main reason why I am a little against kanji is not only because of the difficulty, it somewhat shows that all Japan is a copycat from China. I mean, if you want to learn kanji why not study Chinese, which is more China unique than Japan unique. Japan's evolution of Hiragana and Katakana are Japan, kanji isn't necessarily Japan.

I kinda figured that kanji was originaly invented by China, but so what? Most of Asia copy from eachother. China, Japan, Korea, all of them are related to one another so it's only natural to for each of those countries to borrow ideas. Why ruin a good thing?

 

[lexico]

I kinda figured that kanji was originaly invented by China, but so what? Most of Asia copy from eachother. China, Japan, Korea, all of them are related to one another so it's only natural to for each of those countries to borrow ideas. Why ruin a good thing?

Good, healthy line of reason you have there and it's generally assumed true. Nevertheless, the middle part would make more sense if it was the other way around. Sharing the written langauge was the cause of these areas becoming related, at least during the historical period. I could be proven wrong, but that seems to make more sense right now.

Whatever, kanji, when dealt with with the right approach (study method) will prove vastly superior given the depth and width of traditional learning and understanding. Rita's difficulty is not her own, but shared by many new learners of the written langauge. There should be reasonable ways to achieve somewhat satisfying returns for the effort invested.

 

[Sukotto]

i like kanji
too bad i don't study any more

 

[Glenn]

On the other hand, I was trying to read natsume soseki's sanshiro in japanese and I couldn't get through the first page because of all the kanji. I read the translated version in one night. I'd like to think of my self as fleunt conversationally. However, reading kanji is the biggest obstacle to me reading japanese literture. Maybe more books should have furigana?

Note that Soseki wrote during the turn of the twentieth century, before the Japanese orthography was standardized. There were lots of kana conventions that would cause you headaches when trying to read his original prints, too. A lot of the kanji that he used are nowadays obsolete and/or simplified.

 

[epigene]

Note that Soseki wrote during the turn of the twentieth century, before the Japanese orthography was standardized. There were lots of kana conventions that would cause you headaches when trying to read his original prints, too. A lot of the kanji that he used are nowadays obsolete and/or simplified.

All recent publications of classic works have footnotes to explain conventions and readings that can no longer be found in modern Japanese. Natsume Soseki is actually relatively easy for a native Japanese with some education and is read by junior high school and high school students in Japan. Making it easier than what it is now is unthinkable for me.

 

[Glenn]

That sounds like what I went through reading Shakespeare's plays in high school and college. Of course, Soseki is much closer to contemporary.

 

[Mal]

That sounds like what I went through reading Shakespeare's plays in high school and college. Of course, Soseki is much closer to contemporary.

Shakespeare's plays are nothing compared to trying to read Spensers The Faerie Queene. Wrap your head around this:

A Gentle Knight was *****ing on the plaine,
Y cladd in mightie armes and siluer shielde,
Wherein old dints of deepe wounds did remaine,
The cruell markes of many' a bloudy fielde;
Yet armes till that time did he neuer wield:
His angry steede did chide his foming bitt,
As much disdayning to the curbe to yield:
Full iolly knight he seemd, and faire did sitt,
As one for knightly giusts and fierce encounters fitt.
But on his brest a bloudie Crosse he bore,
The deare remembrance of his dying Lord,
For whose sweete sake that glorious badge he wore,
And dead as liuing euer him ador'd:
Vpon his shield the like was also scor'd,
For soueraine hope, which in his helpe he had:
Right faithfull true he was in deede and word,
But of his cheere did seeme too solemne sad;
Yet nothing did he dread, but euer was ydrad.

Imagine a couple hundred pages of that.

Oh I should add, I love kaniji.

 

[PaulTB]

A Gentle Knight was *****ing on the plaine

Got in the mile-high club did he?

 

[Mal]

Got in the mile-high club did he?

Well played. Golf clap.

 

[PaulTB]

Well played. Golf clap.

Well you know what they say,

"Once a King, always a King.
But once a (k)night is enough."

Incidently I tracked down the original text and here's that first line with anti-censor technique included.
"A Gentle Knight was prｉcking on the plaine,"

I won't say how I do that - although it's quite easy to figure out.

Ah! They plugged that loophole ^^;

Bet they haven't got the next one though.

 

[Arrowyn]

The main reason why I am a little against kanji is not only because of the difficulty, it somewhat shows that all Japan is a copycat from China. I mean, if you want to learn kanji why not study Chinese, which is more China unique than Japan unique. Japan's evolution of Hiragana and Katakana are Japan, kanji isn't necessarily Japan.

*shrug* - The Japanese took something good and ran with it. How is that a bad thing? It's not like they're all speaking Chinese; they borrowed the kanji, incorporated it into their language, and made it fit within their culture.

I think that kanji should not be abolished. Difficulty in learning is a very poor reason to abolish something as beautiful and useful as kanji.

 

[alexriversan]

why do people have such wishes?

the number of kanji was reduced to 2006, chinese has around 60.000 many not used in daily communication. now a complete english dictionary has 600.000 words, many of them not fully understood though being used.

what about rewriting western grammar rules: no gender, no future form, etc. and to write everything small. one would get an impression of japanese communication.

i like japanese poetry because it is short.
european poetry is more difficult to understand and its time is gone. now it is called rap/hip-hop, explicit content. alice in wonderland characters are smoking big pipes, illustrations inclusive. should it not get a label: explicit content as well: illustrating a political system out of usage (king and queen)

imagine a japanese fairytale with intellectual students freely debating all day and growing pot in the college backyard.

i try to point out japanese see us different than we see ourselves. i have not emitted opinions about rap/hip-hop. command "take it serious" not available

 

[Shooter452]

Would the Japanese even consider it?

It has been a while since I set foot on Japanese soil, but my last encounter with the people of Japan leads me to believe that they would not even consider ditching kanji. Although the other, phonetic, alphabets get a lot of play in the culture, AFAIK the Japanese are fond of kanji, even if they are not expert with it.

Several people I knew on Okinawa related to me that they did not know more than half of the characters in kanji, while they regularly used and were quite comfortable with the phonetic characters (Hiragana/Katakana?). But they said that kanji was a part of the cultural soul of Japan and none were eager to discard it. While these individuals hardly constituted a random sampling of the Japanese people, I got the impression that this was a widespread feeling.

I know quite a few Americans who speak passing Japanese, and can negotiate the phonetic written language, but they are not masters of kanji at all. Since most (?) Japanese children learn something of the art in school, they seem to be more adept at it. Perhaps this is a thing that concerns mostly gaijin and not the locals?

Verba docent, exempla trahunt.

 

[senseiman]

Several people I knew on Okinawa related to me that they did not know more than half of the characters in kanji, while they regularly used and were quite comfortable with the phonetic characters (Hiragana/Katakana?). But they said that kanji was a part of the cultural soul of Japan and none were eager to discard it. While these individuals hardly constituted a random sampling of the Japanese people, I got the impression that this was a widespread feeling.

[/I]

Okinawa is kind of a special case because they imported the skill of writing at a much later date and they got it directly from Japan rather than China. Hiragana was the most commonly used writing system in the early Ryukyu kingdom because it could better represent the Okinawan language than Chinese characters, despite the fact that there are many sound in Ryukyugo that aren't represented in Kana.

But Okinawa also had a much closer relationship with China than Japan and was a tributary state right up until the 1870s, so Chinese writing and study of the classics was an important part of the education of the elite. This was the case in Japan too, but in Okinawa Chinese learning carried much higher prestige for a much longer time.

I suppose this doesn't have much to do with the subject at hand, but I thought it was interesting.

 

[Glenn]

I, too, think it's interesting. Thanks for posting!

 

[=w=eezer]

Abolish it!!!!!! i hate kanji!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Glenn]

Now that's a well thought out argument.