She asked me for the time to decide if to accept kokuhaku

[gaijin42]

I love one Japanese woman and so I confessed her my love - I played her a song with words "I love you", "I want to live for you.", "kokuhaku", etc. and then said that song was for her and asked her if she accepts it. She was so surprised and smiling at the same time that she asked me if I really mean that... I ensured her I am genuine. Then she started crying as she was saying the words: "Can I make a decision later?" I felt so sorry for her that I said: "Do not worry, take your time." Afterwards, I felt we were so close to each other as I have never ever been to any other person.
In the past she would reply to my messages in several hours or even a day. Now she replies immediately. But if I asked her to meet with her again, she postponed the meeting to an uncertain time in the future. Is she waiting for something? From me? From others? From parents?
However, what does this really mean? Did she want to say No, but since the Japanese people do not like saying No, she asked me if she could make a decision later instead to make the rejection more polite? Do I still have hope or how should I know? I am waiting for her, but now I am not sure where our relationship is. Should I do anything like buy her flowers to make her more confident to make a decision or rather leave her to think about it instead? For how long?

 

[Mike Cash]

Relax.

 

[Lothor]

It sounds like she genuinely likes you. The refusal to commit to a time to meet could be for a number of reasons, and I wouldn't ask why for the moment. Carry on sending messages (but not too many!) and don't bring up the subject of meeting for a little while. Parents are unlikely to be an issue and I think flowers would be over the top, could be interpreted as applying pressure.

 

[mdchachi]

Give her space.

 

[gaijin42]

Relax.

Not so easy to relax if she means to me so much...

 

[Majestic]

You are certainly not going to win her over if you ignore her request for more time, and try to force an answer out of her.

 

[gaijin42]

You are certainly not going to win her over if you ignore her request for more time, and try to force an answer out of her.

But waiting seems to me so passive. I am also afraid that if I just wait, then she will grow colder towards me and then say No. Reading all other threads it seems best to write her one message a day with mostly neutral content or with just small affection so that she could feel my warmth, but not the pressure. Or what do you think?

 

[Mike Cash]

Is this your online friend? Have you ever met in real life? If she says "yes" to you, what do you envision for the future of your relationship? Marriage? Will she leave Japan and come to live in your country? Will you leave your country and come to live in Japan?

 

[gaijin42]

Is this your online friend? Have you ever met in real life? If she says "yes" to you, what do you envision for the future of your relationship? Marriage? Will she leave Japan and come to live in your country? Will you leave your country and come to live in Japan?

We have been friends for 2 months. She is an exchange student. We meet in Japanese Society, also played music together a few times, even had our song on a concert! My plan was to live in Japan, her plan was to live in the UK after she graduates (maybe 8 more months after that), but I told her that I would be where she wants to be. She is returning to Japan in January, but I have also applied for a student exchange in Japan and should start from February 2016 (Fingers crossed!). She is in a different prefecture, but we could still be together during her term-off times and then after 1 year I could move to find some temporary job at her place (until she graduates) because my plan is to graduate just after the exchange in Japan is completed.
So we know each other in person, I have a definite plan, but revealed her only part of it since I would like to discuss it with her when she says Yes. My eventual intention is to marry her. I know her dreams and in my mind I have an exact vision, how we would live together, what she would be doing, what I would be doing, what we would be doing together, what steps are necessary to achieve all the goals and how realistic all of this is.

 

[gaijin42]

Could it be that she hesitates to say Yes because she cannot imagine the future as clearly as I can? I intended to reveal more of the plan only after she says Yes because before then without her input the plan would sound too speculative. Or should I do anything before she decides to give her more feeling of certainty?

 

[Mike Cash]

If she has only known you for two months it is very possible that her feelings for you may not be as strong as your feelings for her. Don't be too pushy or smothering just yet or you may come across as Creepy Stalker Guy.

Are you sure it is her you are in love with? Not just in love with being in love? Not just in love with the idea of having a Japanese girlfriend and she just happens to be it?

It may be that she has rather concrete plans for her future, ones which she has been working toward for years and which should not be ignored or discounted as her not being able to imagine the future as clearly as you. Anybody can daydream up a brilliant future on short notice and short acquaintance; that your mind has already raced toward some emotionally fuelled rosy scenario for the life of someone you barely know doesn't mean she doesn't have a plan or that yours is superior or should trump hers.

 

[gaijin42]

If she has only known you for two months it is very possible that her feelings for you may not be as strong as your feelings for her. Don't be too pushy or smothering just yet or you may come across as Creepy Stalker Guy.

Are you sure it is her you are in love with? Not just in love with being in love? Not just in love with the idea of having a Japanese girlfriend and she just happens to be it?

It may be that she has rather concrete plans for her future, ones which she has been working toward for years and which should not be ignored or discounted as her not being able to imagine the future as clearly as you. Anybody can daydream up a brilliant future on short notice and short acquaintance; that your mind has already raced toward some emotionally fuelled rosy scenario for the life of someone you barely know doesn't mean she doesn't have a plan or that yours is superior or should trump hers.

I know her plans because I asked her about them and she has been working towards them for a few years. I rather meant that she may find it hard to imagine the future with me. But in fact my plans for both of us support her plans.

I certainly like her Japanese qualities - she is punctual, diligent (we practiced early in the morning when most of the people were still sleeping), systematic and has a goal in her life which she has been pursuing. We talked a few times together and our conversation was very fruitful, unlike with other (mostly Japanese) women. I could sense she wanted to meet again the next time and so I decided to get to know this one more. The more I met her, the more I knew I wanted to be with her. But in fact, she is very different from any other (even Japanese) woman I intended to find and we are quite opposite characters. But love is unconditional, is it not? If I was looking just for a woman that fulfills my criteria, such a relationship would not be strong because eventually I would find something in her that I do not like. But if I make the relationship a priority and I am determined to love her whoever she is (and she will do the same), such a relationship will succeed!
Can you imagine that an electric guitar would play with a classical violin and it would still sound good? Well, that is exactly what we did on our concert and our friends told us that that song was the best.
I am not sure what you mean by asking me who or what I am in love with.

But after all, I think you are right, she does not feel so strong for me as I do for her. Yet. Maybe that is why she asked for the more time. However, at the same time it is harder that we get to know each other even more if she does not want to meet that often... I thought that the prerequisite to meeting her more often (to have her permission) was to start with kokuhaku, that is why confessed.

 

[mdchachi]

Could it be that she hesitates to say Yes because she cannot imagine the future as clearly as I can? I intended to reveal more of the plan only after she says Yes because before then without her input the plan would sound too speculative. Or should I do anything before she decides to give her more feeling of certainty?

I don't think you told us... what is she supposed to say yes or no to? Did you ask to get engaged and married eventually? Or just to accept/reciprocate your love?
Based on what you've said so far, it sounds to me like you lost her (never really had her) but one can always hope.
What would your reaction be if you were hanging out with somebody for two months and they unexpectedly confessed their love to you when you didn't feel the same? I think the natural reaction would be to say "oh crap" and withdraw. Especially if you didn't want to directly say "I don't feel that way."

 

[Mike Cash]

You come across as having a very idealized and romantic notion of life and love....which for your age is not unusual and which I don't intend as any sort of negative criticism of your character. But as a guy married for thirty years I'm here to tell you that loving someone doesn't mean you won't find something you dislike about the person, nor does not currently having anything you dislike about someone necessarily indicate love or guarantee prospects for future compatibility. No matter what your heart and hormones are telling you, after a few brief interactions over the course of two months, there is simply no way you know this person yet.

Googling "guitar violin duet" yields no shortage of results, by the way.

 

[gaijin42]

You come across as having a very idealized and romantic notion of life and love....which for your age is not unusual and which I don't intend as any sort of negative criticism of your character. But as a guy married for thirty years I'm here to tell you that loving someone doesn't mean you won't find something you dislike about the person, nor does not currently having anything you dislike about someone necessarily indicate love or guarantee prospects for future compatibility. No matter what your heart and hormones are telling you, after a few brief interactions over the course of two months, there is simply no way you know this person yet.

Googling "guitar violin duet" yields no shortage of results, by the way.

I do not claim I know her. Concerning the compatibility my claim is exactly this: it is impossible to find a compatible person. And so the only way for the relationship to succeed is that each person loves the other one regardless of who that person is or how compatible that person is. And by love, I do not mean just feelings, but mainly the deeds, respect for the other person and being a support for the other person.

Reading your post again, it seems as if you misread my previous posts because to me it seems that you make claims about life and love that I made already or undermined (and you did not provide a counterargument) in my post preceding yours.

To put it straight: she is largely incompatible, but I am determined to love her nevertheless.

Once one psychologist made an experiment with "compatibility tests" for couples and then measured how long their relationship lasted. He found out that even some couples with high compatibility score broke up quickly, but some other couples which were almost incompatible had a very strong relationship. He looked more into the individual cases and found out that the couples that had a strong long relationship succeeded because each other was able to accommodate to the other person, to renounce oneself for the other, to forgive the other if needed. In short, the couples with a strong relationship loved each other.
Then he looked into the compatible couples that broke up quickly and he found out that they were largely selfish and although they agreed on many matters, just one small disagreement was sufficient to break the relationship because none of them wanted to accommodate to the needs of the other person. Or in short, they did not love each other.
I think love is the only factor determining the success of a relationship and by love, I repeat, I do not just mean feelings or hormones.

Anyway, I just realized that the discussion got too general and not related to Japanese culture much anymore.

 

[Mike Cash]

It had little or nothing to do with Japanese culture to begin with. The only possible connection lies in the fact that there is a greater likelihood that romantic love may play a lesser role in her considerations regarding her ideas regarding a future marriage partner.

Do you have a history of being sweet on Japanese girls in particular?

 

[gaijin42]

It had little or nothing to do with Japanese culture to begin with. The only possible connection lies in the fact that there is a greater likelihood that romantic love may play a lesser role in her considerations regarding her ideas regarding a future marriage partner.

Do you have a history of being sweet on Japanese girls in particular?

My previous girlfriend was not Japanese and I was very kind to her. In fact, I can say I am a gentleman to every woman, my mother taught me to be.
However, since I got more interested in Japanese culture, I also got more interested in Japanese women. But I think that is what happens naturally. When I was learning English, I was more interested in the English, when learning Hebrew, more interested in the Jewish, etc.

 

[Mike Cash]

Ah, I wondered if English was your first language.

May I ask where you are from? What is your status regarding UK residency?

 

[gaijin42]

My previous girlfriend was not Japanese and I was very kind to her. In fact, I can say I am a gentleman to every woman, my mother taught me to be.
However, since I got more interested in Japanese culture, I also got more interested in Japanese women. But I think that is what happens naturally.

Ah, I wondered if English was your first language.

May I ask where you are from? What is your status regarding UK residency?

I from Slovakia, which is an EU country like the UK, so I can live in the UK legally.

 

[gaijin42]

Finally, I managed to meet her again for 8 minutes (under a pretext I wanted to give her something) after 46 hours which were long like months to me. I bought her something I knew she was going to like very much, but it was not flowers so that I would not apply any pressure on her.
She felt like a kind friend, but I could sense that closeness as 44 hours ago anymore. She did not reply to my kokuhaku. I did not ask her to reply or put any force on her, but gave her enough sentence constructions in my speech to give her the opportunity to reply.
I think she only feels sorry for me and agreed to meet again only because she felt the obligation to repay my kindness to her. I normally play the violin and when I mentioned to her that I have now guitar so we could jam together and she looked a little surprised on the fact that I have a guitar and so I added: "You remember, I played you the song on the guitar on Monday." and on those words "I played you the song" (which was the kokuhaku song) she almost started crying, so I quickly changed the topic from music to something else.

So basically my situation is this: she does not love me because she does not know me. But she cannot know me because we do not meet too often. But we cannot meet too often because she did not accept kokuhaku. But she cannot accept kokuhaku because she does not love me... Just a vicious circle.

Ok, in the West people meet together more often even before they confess, the process is gradual. But in Japan, how do you start loving somebody who you do not even meet often?
Now it seems to me that almost the only possible way for the Japanese people to get to know each other is if they work together. In my case, I am not her classmate, so I do not see her much.

I will stay her kind friend who she meets altogether for a few hours a week, she will never confess because she will never love me and so she will never get to know me. Then on the day of her departure, I will give her my poetry with everything I felt towards her and tell her: さよなら (sayonara), but not "mata ne", not "see you".

 

[gaijin42]

Ok, if we sometimes cannot love as much as we would like, is there at least any moral from this story? Something that would make us better for the future?

 

[Mike Cash]

I from Slovakia, which is an EU country like the UK, so I can live in the UK legally.

But would you be able to sponsor her for a visa to live in the UK if she married you?

 

[gaijin42]

I don't think you told us... what is she supposed to say yes or no to? Did you ask to get engaged and married eventually? Or just to accept/reciprocate your love?
Based on what you've said so far, it sounds to me like you lost her (never really had her) but one can always hope.
What would your reaction be if you were hanging out with somebody for two months and they unexpectedly confessed their love to you when you didn't feel the same? I think the natural reaction would be to say "oh crap" and withdraw. Especially if you didn't want to directly say "I don't feel that way."

According to what I have read about kokuhaku, its acceptance marks a start of a serious relationship, this means a relationship that may lead to the marriage. I asked her if she accepts my song and that song had the words "I love you.", "I want to live for you.", "kokuhaku". So if I understand right, my proposal was as serious as it would be if made by a Japanese man.

 

[gaijin42]

But would you be able to sponsor her for a visa to live in the UK if she married you?

She could become a Slovak citizen and therefore an EU citizen and then live in the UK legally if that meant to her much.

 

[Mike Cash]

According to what I have read about kokuhaku, its acceptance marks a start of a serious relationship, this means a relationship that may lead to the marriage. I asked her if she accepts my song and that song had the words "I love you.", "I want to live for you.", "kokuhaku". So if I understand right, my proposal was as serious as it would be if made by a Japanese man.

Japanese are famous for not being able to say they love each other and for being very awkward and bashful about such things. A kokuhaku in Japanese wouldn't necessarily include mention of love. Nor would it necessarily be seen as wanting to start a relationship leading to marriage. Nor does every relationship even start with or include a kokuhaku anyway.

I wouldn't take her current reactions as a rejection. I would worry that she may have misinterpreted your kokuhaku as a marriage proposal, though.