Rearming Japan; unsheathing the Samurai sword

McTojo · 22 Oct 2005

It's time for Japan to rearm itself to better reflect its soverienty as a nation and to be a better contributor to international stability and cooperation with the Japan/ United States security alliance and its asian neighbors.
http://www.zmag.org/Japan/Security/SDF1.html

With the advent of terroism and the acquisition and proliferation of nuclear weapons by nations like China, North Korea and Pakistan Japan needs to have a more active role militarily through exercising a collective right to self-defense , in part, to assist the United States in case China decides to attack the mainland of Japan.
http://www.asianresearch.org/articles/2066.html

One obstacle that is hindering the ability for Japan to take a more active role militarily is Article 9 which has been disussed at length on this forum already. Proponents such as Richard Armitage, U.S. Deputy Secretary, contend that Japan's war-renoucing article 9 is becoming an obstacle in strengthening the Japan/U.S. alliance which could possibly hinder Japans chances of getting a seat on the UNSC which would give Japan greater international recognition on a decision making level with veto power equal to the already current five members of the UNSC.
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nn20040723a1.htm

My detractors, and you know who you are, wish to paint Japan as a weak, passive and an apologetic nation by contending that Japan is better off the way she is. Well, I don't see it that way and neither do millions of Japanese including prime minister of Japan and the United States and other allies. No other nation should dictate how another nations chooses to protect itself internationally unless its regarding nuclear weapons. And in that case no one deserves to have them.

Jack · 22 Oct 2005

i think japan is a strong nation at heart but have not had the chance to show their muscle(so to speak),

Mike Cash · 22 Oct 2005

Why the exception for nuclear weapons?

Jack · 22 Oct 2005

the a-bomb dropping of Hiroshima, i wouldn't comdemn them if they dropped one back. because they gave up shortly after, never did counter attack or did they?

Maciamo · 22 Oct 2005

So, what are they waiting for. I am one of your detractor, but do not "wish to paint Japan as a weak, passive and an apologetic nation".

1) It is the 2nd economic and 4th military world power, so I certainly don't see Japan as weak. Indeed I atgue that China will never have the guts to attack Japan anytime soon, as it would be disatrous for the Chinese economy, and potentially also in terms of human loss.

2) Japan is passive, because it's politicians are mostly lame and corrupted. I have been criticising this in many threads in this section (politics). However, strength does not mean hypocritically saying that it want peace and good relations with its neighbours, then do all it can to anger them. This is just lame and immature.

3) Japan is far from apologetic. In fact, it has experienced repeated difficulties to provide proper apologies for its past actions.

Jack · 22 Oct 2005

i can agree with your 3rd statement there Maciamo, in fact i agree with them all, japan is far superior over loads of other countries, its not fair to say they're weak or any country for that matter.

Rin Daemoko · 23 Oct 2005

I think highly of Japan and of the Japanese people. I would not mind in the slightest bit if they were permitted an actual military. While there was very good reason for keeping Japan disarmed after the Second World War, I do not believe that castration is the best way to prevent abuse of power.

The Japanese people, as a whole, seem to be sensible and caring. They have already offered the world so much, and I think they can do so much more for the global community in terms of peace keeping, if they had the legislative power to do so.

Please don't take my opinion too strongly, though. I do not know very much about what is going on in Japan politically. This is only my opinion as an ignorant Canadian.

lexico · 23 Oct 2005

Rin Daemoko said:
While there was very good reason for keeping Japan disarmed after the Second World War, I do not believe that castration is the best way to prevent abuse of power.

In the Second Sino-Japanese War (1931-1945) and the Asian WWII, over 2 million deaths* were caused due to Imperial Japanese aggression; including the wounded, the raped, the maimed, the bereaved, the figure should run at least 10 times that.

Before the Mukden Invasion in 1931, Japan ranked among other Imperialist countries of western Europe, the USSR, and the USA as an equal among the agressors. By cutting off with the treaties between Japan, the UK, and the US, and by joining hands with the Axis Powers, Japan proved it was not capable of self-regulation; hence the "castration" was the only measure acceptable to the 48 countries at the San Francisco Peace Treaty. The verdict is here to stay.

The Japanese people, as a whole, seem to be sensible and caring.

Of course; they can be individually as admirable or as offensive as any other people inhabiting the earth, but that's personal relationships. Here we are dealing with the capability of political self-regulation. Hence your personal perspective is irrelevant to the discussion. I have had excellent Japanese friends; but does that make me change my political and social observation ? Hardly.

They have already offered the world so much,

Anime, manga, film, AV, J-pop, literature, and cultural contirbutions are welcome; but again we are discussing politics and the military capabilities of aggression, not cultural contributions.

and I think they can do so much more for the global community in terms of peace keeping,

Exactly what can they contribute militarily ? Why do you think some Japanese interest groups want to expand their military might ? What do you think they are trying to achieve when unsuspecting people like you give them the benefit of the doubt out of blind love and ill-based judgement on their behaviour ?

if they had the legislative power to do so.

By starting with breaking the trust once again ? I should say that is an inferior way to get on the right step. Strong, revisionist, militarist opionions coming out of Japan have already offended many. Japan should stop the breach of trust immediately.

edit: "2 million" should be "20 million."

McTojo · 23 Oct 2005

Rin

lexico said:
In the Second Sino-Japanese War (1931-1945) and the Asian WWII, over 2 million deaths were caused due to Imperial Japanese aggression; including the wounded, the raped, the maimed, the bereaved, the figure should run at least 10 times that.

Before the Mukden Invasion in 1931, Japan ranked among other Imperialist countries of western Europe, the USSR, and the USA as an equal among the agressors. By cutting off with the treaties between Japan, the UK, and the US, and by joining hands with the Axis Powers, Japan proved it was not capable of self-regulation; hence the "castration" was the only measure acceptable to the 48 countries at the San Francisco Peace Treaty. The verdict is here to stay.Of course; they can be individually as admirable or as offensive as any other people inhabiting the earth, but that's personal relationships. Here we are dealing with the capability of political self-regulation. Hence your personal perspective is irrelevant to the discussion. I have had excellent Japanese friends; but does that make me change my political and social observation ? Hardly.Anime, manga, film, AV, J-pop, literature, and cultural contirbutions are welcome; but again we are discussing politics and the military capabilities of aggression, not cultural contributions.Exactly what can they contribute militarily ? Why do you think some Japanese interest groups want to expand their military might ? What do you think they are trying to achieve when unsuspecting people like you give them the benefit of the doubt out of blind love and ill-based judgement on their behaviour ?By starting with breaking the trust once again ? I should say that is an inferior way to get on the right step. Strong, revisionist, militarist opionions coming out of Japan have already offended many. Japan should stop the breach of trust immediately.

Don't buy into the bias rhetoric that Lexicon is giving you . There were reasons that Japan broke from the original treaty and some of it had to do with race. Be proud of Japan and never allow others to discourage you from saying good things about Japan. Also, there is nothing wrong with Japan revising her own history in order to protect its own national self interest.
Japan is one of the greatest and most powerful asian nations in history and people die because that "war" and the winner writes history not the looser.
Japan - World War I

McTojo · 23 Oct 2005

Rin Daemoko said:
I think highly of Japan and of the Japanese people. I would not mind in the slightest bit if they were permitted an actual military. While there was very good reason for keeping Japan disarmed after the Second World War, I do not believe that castration is the best way to prevent abuse of power.

The Japanese people, as a whole, seem to be sensible and caring. They have already offered the world so much, and I think they can do so much more for the global community in terms of peace keeping, if they had the legislative power to do so.

Please don't take my opinion too strongly, though. I do not know very much about what is going on in Japan politically. This is only my opinion as an ignorant Canadian.

Keep up the good work !

lastmagi · 23 Oct 2005

McTojo said:
My detractors, and you know who you are, wish to paint Japan as a weak, passive and an apologetic nation by contending that Japan is better off the way she is.

Prove it.

Once again, you are hypocritically doing exactly what you illegitemately accused us of doing earlier. You are drawing a skewed conclusion from what arguments we've presented.

Don't buy into the bias rhetoric that Lexicon is giving you . There were reasons that Japan broke from the original treaty and most of it had to do with race. Be proud of Japan and never allow others to discourage you from saying good things about Japan. Also, there is nothing wrong with Japan revising her own history in order to protect its own nation self interest.
Japan is one of the greatest and most powerful asian nations in history and people die because that "war" and the winner writes history not the looser.

First off: biased rhetoric? Excuse me? Unlike you, Lexico's arguments have always had a solid foundation of logic and fact. If you want to speak of bias, at least understand what it is.

Second off: "nothing wrong with Japan revising her own history in order to protect its own nation['s] self interest"? There are a lot of things wrong with this statement, but I'm only going to say this: I guess now it's crystal clear where you stand now, McTojo. You are not interested in Japan at all. In fact, you don't even respect Japan for itself. By supporting Japan to "revise its own history," you are in effect canceling the things, good and bad, that make Japan what it is. You are rejecting the Japan that is right there, and appealing for one that is all fluffy and warm and void of faults. If that's not condescending pedestal-holding of a nation, I don't know what is.

Rin said:
I think highly of Japan and of the Japanese people. I would not mind in the slightest bit if they were permitted an actual military. While there was very good reason for keeping Japan disarmed after the Second World War, I do not believe that castration is the best way to prevent abuse of power.

The Japanese people, as a whole, seem to be sensible and caring. They have already offered the world so much, and I think they can do so much more for the global community in terms of peace keeping, if they had the legislative power to do so.

Please don't take my opinion too strongly, though. I do not know very much about what is going on in Japan politically. This is only my opinion as an ignorant Canadian.

I suggest you read at least some of the past 500 discussions on this topic before jumping in. There is much more than the face value of Japanese being friendly people, which I'll neither support nor deny.

Also, I would suggest you, McTojo, to stop spamming the forums with the same viewpoint over and over again. This is a forum for intelligent discussion. Yes, we know you "love" Japan (at least your version of it). But you are getting more than tiresome, as your arguments are not breaking any new ground.

McTojo · 23 Oct 2005

lastmagi said:
Prove it.

Once again, you are hypocritically doing exactly what you illegitemately accused us of doing earlier. You are drawing a skewed conclusion from what arguments we've presented.

First off: biased rhetoric? Excuse me? Unlike you, Lexico's arguments have always had a solid foundation of logic and fact. If you want to speak of bias, at least understand what it is.

Second off: "nothing wrong with Japan revising her own history in order to protect its own nation['s] self interest"? There are a lot of things wrong with this statement, but I'm only going to say this: I guess now it's crystal clear where you stand now, McTojo. You are not interested in Japan at all. In fact, you don't even respect Japan for itself. By supporting Japan to "revise its own history," you are in effect canceling the things, good and bad, that make Japan what it is. You are rejecting the Japan that is right there, and appealing for one that is all fluffy and warm and void of faults. If that's not condescending pedestal-holding of a nation, I don't know what is.

I suggest you read at least some of the past 500 discussions on this topic before jumping in. There is much more than the face value of Japanese being friendly people, which I'll neither support nor deny.

Also, I would suggest you, McTojo, to stop spamming the forums with the same viewpoint over and over again. This is a forum for intelligent discussion. Yes, we know you "love" Japan (at least your version of it). But you are getting more than tiresome, as your arguments are not breaking any new ground.

What have you proven so far ?

And you are partially right, it is crystal clear where I stand regarding Japan which is in complete favor of her side of history. Like I asserted earlier Japan is one of the greatest nations ever ! Also, you mention spamming ?? We are educating you people by not allowing you to draw false conclusion based off of your limited sources and these discussions have been very intelligent and meaningful for alot of people and not everybody espouses your view nor Lexicons.

McTojo · 23 Oct 2005

lastmagi said:
First off: biased rhetoric? Excuse me? Unlike you, Lexico's arguments have always had a solid foundation of logic and fact. If you want to speak of bias, at least understand what it is..

Solid foundation in sources to support a claim but has not proven everything factually. I don't think anyone has for that matter especially when she considers Japans take on history as false and unsupported. Or in another case, when someone tries to claim that Japan murdered more innocent foreign civilians than any other country in history ! That's a pretty lofty claim for someone who considers him/herself a fact finder. Try and be a little more rational and objective lastmagi. Don't let the eloquent play of words and emotion take away your objectivity and speak for yourself next time.

senseiman · 23 Oct 2005

Lexico and Lastmagi: Excellent posts.

McTojo: It really is hard to discern any logical argument coming out of your posts other than Japanese military aggression=good, anyone who brings attention to Japanese military aggression=Bad.

Doc · 23 Oct 2005

*sniff* *sniff* I smell nationalism in this thread.

Doc

McTojo · 23 Oct 2005

lastmagi said:
Prove it.

Once again, you are hypocritically doing exactly what you illegitemately accused us of doing earlier. You are drawing a skewed conclusion from what arguments we've presented..

No, there is a clear distinction between my arguments. I am not a Japan basher and neither do I advocate a weak and apologetic Japan as being the best answer like most posters here. Unfortunately you and Lexicon do ! You two demonstrate a clear dislike for Japan.

lastmagi said:
First off: biased rhetoric? Excuse me? Unlike you, Lexico's arguments have always had a solid foundation of logic and fact. If you want to speak of bias, at least understand what it is...

So has my post

lastmagi said:
Second off: "nothing wrong with Japan revising her own history in order to protect its own nation['s] self interest"? There are a lot of things wrong with this statement, but I'm only going to say this: I guess now it's crystal clear where you stand now, McTojo. You are not interested in Japan at all. In fact, you don't even respect Japan for itself. By supporting Japan to "revise its own history," you are in effect canceling the things, good and bad, that make Japan what it is. You are rejecting the Japan that is right there, and appealing for one that is all fluffy and warm and void of faults. If that's not condescending pedestal-holding of a nation, I don't know what is....

There is nothing wrong with that statement as it reflects a pro-Japanese point of view. And it's perfectly clear where I stand so please don't use irrelevant statements like that. It's because I respect Japan that I stand up to foreigners like you who wish to be apologetic for China and the rest of asia who struggle with their own human rights issues. The true Japan is reflected in all of my post, haven't you noticed ? I don't openly criticize Japans government or politicians like you people do. I don't condemn Japan for what she did sixty years ago like you people do. And I most certainly don't approve of a Japan that's modeled after Germany. It's times like these were I am grateful that the Uyoku is here. If you don't like Japan then leave as soon as possible.

Mike Cash · 23 Oct 2005

Doc said:
*sniff* *sniff* I smell nationalism in this thread.

Doc

Of the McSwaggart variety.

The7thSamurai · 23 Oct 2005

I think I've actually discovered McTojo's motivation for writing such rediculous threads - he hates Japan. McTojo hates Japan. And he wants others to hate Japan as much as he does, so what he does is gets on the Internet, poses as a nationalistic "Japan lover", and writes this garbage so that other people go out and dredge up as much bad stuff as possible about Japan's history so we can all start talking negatively about this great country. It's a cleverly calculated plan.

Take your hate somewhere else McTojo.

McTojo · 23 Oct 2005

Bucko said:
I think I've actually discovered McTojo's motivation for writing such rediculous threads - he hates Japan. McTojo hates Japan. And he wants others to hate Japan as much as he does, so what he does is gets on the Internet, poses as a nationalistic "Japan lover", and writes this garbage so that other people go out and dredge up as much bad stuff as possible about Japan's history so we can all start talking negatively about this great country. It's a cleverly calculated plan.

Take your hate somewhere else McTojo.

No way...what's wrong with everybody. I really really love Japan !
It's disheartening that nobody understands me...(sigh)

Mike Cash · 23 Oct 2005

I understand you, McTojo. I just don't know who you are.

Apollo · 23 Oct 2005

senseiman said:
Lexico and Lastmagi: Excellent posts.

McTojo: It really is hard to discern any logical argument coming out of your posts other than Japanese military aggression=good, anyone who brings attention to Japanese military aggression=Bad.

Has Tojo risen from the dead??? May I ask why McTojo has chosen this username?????? Just curious, is it because of his/her political reasonings? I just find it coincidental that this name is chosen and compare with the posts....(and the AVATAR!)
Of course, this could be just a name, or randomly chosen username.... .

Mikawa Ossan · 23 Oct 2005

Miss_apollo7 said:
Of course, this could be just a name, or randomly chosen username.... .

Yeah, about as random as the username I use!

Mike Cash · 23 Oct 2005

I went waaaaay random on mine. I got it off of an old birth certificate we had lying around the house.

Apollo · 23 Oct 2005

Mikawa Ossan said:
Yeah, about as random as the username I use!

hahaha...with McTojo's agenda, the avatar and the choosing of the username, maybe it is not random....

Anyway, without the avatar, it could be an ordinary surname in Japan..... (well, I am getting off-topic so....)

senseiman · 24 Oct 2005

There is no way on earth this McTojo guy is for real.

Even if you agree that Japan should re-arm itself (which I don't personally, but others have made convincing arguments in favor of it) you aren't going to convince anybody by A) naming yourself after a convicted war criminal, B) coloring all your arguments with notions of Japanese cultural and racial superiority and C) openly admitting that you have thrown all objectivity out the window.

I'm pretty sure this guy is just "taking the piss" as my English friends would say. Either that or he belongs in the loony bin.

Rearming Japan; unsheathing the Samurai sword

Sempai

後輩

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

後輩

先輩

後輩

Registered

後輩

Sempai

Sempai

後輩

Sempai

Sempai

先輩

Government Man

Sempai

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

Master of the Universe

Sempai

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

先輩

いかんわ！

骨も命も皆此の土地に埋めよう

先輩

先輩

Similar threads