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Police harassment in Japan

FrustratedDave said:
Fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist,fascist....
Go home already, Japan is not the place for you.
Click to expand...

Well, I dont think there can be much doubt that the police force is a fascist organization and at least a lot of the lower ranking members enthuiastically do the bidding of their masters but that is just the police. I met some army guys and they were really decent let alone the average person on the street. Far from fascistic. Are you saying I should go home because of my dislike for fascists and thereby insinuating that Japan is full of or is itself a fascist state? Well thats why you are...... ell you now what I think of you but I cant say it or I will be banned.

This is the second time. I previously said "If the police keep treating me unfairly because I have white-skin I will leave." and then you said something to the end of "I dont like you because you come here for a short time and misbehave." Thereby suggesting that fascist police would continue to treat me unfairly because I have white skin and I would therefore leave soon.

You are a very sick person. There can be no doubt.
 
In conclusion, I hope foreigners when they are stopped by the police for no reason other than having white skin, dont just hand over their I.D. like docile lackeys.

If the policemen or womem are smarter or just less willing to be so flagrant in breaking the law than average, they will come up with some reason as to why they need to see your I.D. For example "a foreigner was just reported (doing something) nearby." In that case they have the right to see your I.D. but before showing them, you have the right to first see their I.D. I would suggest not just letting them flick open their wallets and flash it, but to actually look carefully and record details as that is what they will do just to show "how powerful" they are (typical fascists!). If the foreigner first inspects their I.D. for everyone around to see, the power-trip of the police will go down in flames.

On the other hand, if he or she is as stupid and without any compunction in breaking the law as an average policeman or women and says you have to show I.D. merely because you are a foreigner, you have the right to refuse which is what I hope you will do as the more people who dont just hand over their I.D. like docile lackeys the more police will refrain from harrassing us. Unless you speak Japanese very well, download and print the file that has the law written in Japanese and English on Debitos website and show it to them when they stop you.

Debitos webite itself is really good. Lots of info from foreigners who are not docile lackeys. Here is just a selection.
Its in everyones interest that the police refrain from doing this. At first they only pick on minorities as they are the easiest target but as soon as those minorities capitulate, they inevitably get more ambitious.
 
Yeah, yeah , yeah, Just another poor foriegner crying fowl. It is YOU who thinks Japan is full of fascists and it is YOU who is playing the "my skin is white" card and crying unfair treatment. Now who is putting words into peoples mouths.... The fact remains there was trouble at the park and regardless you were somehow involved. The police had every right to further investigate a situation they obviously came to after the fact, so all you whining and crying just makes you look like a 3 year old who has had there lollypop taken away.

So yeah, from what you have posted in this thread I think you should go back to where you came from as nothing good will come from you with your current attitude towards Japan.

bruno said:
Debito's Groupie, as usual !
Click to expand...
I second the motion!
 
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So you're saying that if stopped you should not show the officer your gaijin card, thus making the officer suspicious that you are not carrying it. Now the officer could ask you again with cause. This is a circle that is impossible to win.

I have not seen a case or situation listed yet where I think I would come out ahead by denying to show my card.
 

No. I am saying that if you are stopped and asked to show I.D. ask why. If they say "because you are a foreigner" or anything to that end either tell them the law or print out Debitos cards and show them. If they keep going after that, not sure what to do or what your rights are. I presume even a very stupid policeman wouldnt push on if he is confronted with the fact he is breaking the law. A fascist would be a different story. He wouldnt want to call for backup unless the backup he was calling for were absolute lackeys because they would then see he is breaking the law.

2 things, any foreigner who hasnt done anything wrong and just hands over their I.D. without question is a pityful and docile lackey.

If you dont want to be bothered and just want to be on your way, thats too bad because it encourages the fascists to then hit up other people like you but I can understand it. At least demand to see their I.D. and inspect it and take down details, either on paper or in your keitai if you dont have pen and paper. Do it publicly so people can see and the fascists little power-trip will be shot down, in flames.
 

Well, you start posting on this thread saying, "Someone I know has been treated unfairly by the police. What are his/my rights?" but you sound like you've known exactly what they are and what to do all along.

Exchanging insults is not the purpose of this forum and from the way this thread has been going, I must say it is more than likely that this will only go on and on in circles.

I don't think there is anyone left here who has not learned how you feel about the police. You have said your piece more than once. You have posted links to Debito's site more than once. I believe you have done what you had come here to do, so can you please move on?
 

You seem that like a reasonable person so I dont want to say anything bad but before making such statements dont you think it would be a good idea to actually read through the thread so you have at least a slight inclination as to whether what you say is true or not?

Insofar as myself, I will stop posting here as soon as people stop saying things like the police have every right to harrass you based on the color of your skin. The police can stop you, question you and demand to see your I.D. because you have white skin and you have no rights and etc etc.

I really cant understand it. If you and these other people are foreigners, why would you not want other foreigners to know they have rights when the police stop them? If you are Japanese, why would you want the police to do that? I think the vast majority of Japnese people are very decent (from my experience) and even that night several complete strangers came to the defence of the guy who was held and were very angry he was being treated in such a manner (but if you care to read through the thread, you will see that isnt why i was angry). Having said that, I have not seen or heard anything to suggest that fundamentally, the police force is not a fascist organization and anyone who defends them is either a fascist him or herself or even worse, a lackey of them.
 

Ok, let's go over this one last time because I honestly would not want to see you get yourself in trouble due to your misunderstanding of these laws.

In the law stating that the police have the right to stop and question you if you are suspected of a crime, not once do the words 外国人登録書、身分証明書、見せる、拝見する、提示す る etc.. appear. (Alien registration card, Personal ID card, show, present etc.) Meaning this law does not in any way protect you from having to show your card when asked by a police officer. It does not say you must first be suspected of a crime in order to be forced to show your ID card. All it says is that if you are suspected of a crime the police have the right to detain and question you. Again it says nothing about whether or not you have to show your ID card.

The other law, clearly states that under any circumstances in performing their duties the coast guard, immigration officials, police etc have the right to demand you show your card.

The bottom line is these laws are not related to each other and debito mistakenly gives you the idea that they are. They are not. Read them carefully, please. If you are confronted by the police and simply asked to show your card you must do it. If you do not you will certainly be making trouble for yourself.

Now, beyond showing your ID card and maybe answering some questions as to why you are in Japan etc. the police then apparently do not have any right to detain you further unless you are suspected of a crime. So when they are done with the card, you then may politely ask if you can go. If they say no, then that is the appropriate time to ask if you are suspected of a crime and show them the law or whatever you wanna do. Simple eh? but the bottom line is you have to show your card regardless of whether or not you are suspected of a crime, period.
 

because most Japanese are smart...
i dont want to make a truble with a facist police by such trivial things ,and it is waste of time.
Do not put your pride of white boy by such a foolish thing.
and those fascist police is so kind.
You should use the police better.
If you cooperate in them with pleasure, Japan becomes more peaceful.
You should return to dreamland.
 
caster51 said:
because most Japanese are smart....
Click to expand...

So in that case, why do the majority of Japanese people not willingly present their I.D? Any Japanese people who dont mind police flagrantly breaking the law I and I'm sure most people wouldnt call "smart". They would call it something entirely different.............

caster51 said:
i dont want to make a truble with a facist police by such trivial things ,and it is waste of time.
Click to expand...

Do you know there was a place in Europe not so long ago where the police would randomly stop people and demand to see their "papers". It started with minorities and the local people didnt have a problem with it. In ended with the Red Army reducing whole cities to dust with the local people still inside (of course I'm not suggesting that was the fault of the Red Army. They opened corridors for civilians to leave but the fascists refused to let them leave.) I'm not saying anything similar will happen here and i certainly hope not. I'm sure the Japanese government knows it which is why they have added clauses and sub sections to the law in order to see everyones rights protected.


caster51 said:
Do not put your pride of white boy by such a foolish thing.
and those fascist police is so kind.
Click to expand...

Is that a joke? I'm sure some of them are very reasonable, decent people but quite a few of them participate in racial profiling and flagrantly ignore the law like power hungary little fascists!

caster51 said:
You should use the police better.
If you cooperate in them with pleasure, Japan becomes more peaceful.
You should return to dreamland.
Click to expand...

In relation to the last comment I cant where I think you shouldnt remain or i will get banned. Apart from power hungary little fascist police giving me a hard time because of the color of my skin, Japan is very peaceful now.
 
pipokun said:
It is simply because as many as 156,189 criminal offence cases in 2006 were detected through the stop & question.
And personally, I believe public safety and free speech is not mutually exclusive.

Source: Police Performance Evaluation Review, page 5
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If a crime has been committed and I am a suspect, the law says I must comply with the police and even if the law didn't say that, I wouldn't have a problem cooperating...... just as long as they present their own I.D. for inspection first.
 
Wait a second, in any country worth a damn if the police approaches you and asks for some form of identification, you just comply. Why is that a surprise to you? I'm not talking about continued detention here. It is at the police constables' discretion to request identification, and there is really nothing to be gained from questioning the merits of their decisions. It just simply creates additional dialogue, which I assume you would like to avoid. It is not a major disuse of discretionary powers on the part of the police after all, so just ignore it.
 

Interesting perspective but i would turn the question around. In your opinion which countries are "worth a damn"? Is Japan "worth a damn" because Japanese people dont do that. I just dont like being pulled up by police for no reason other than having white skin. I know the vast majority of other white-skinned people dont like it either. Now that I know the law, i wont just comply like any docile lackey and I hope you dont either.
 
Reyter said:
So in that case, why do the majority of Japanese people not willingly present their I.D? Any Japanese people who dont mind police flagrantly breaking the law
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Once again they are not breaking the law when asking anybody simply to show ID regardless of skin color nationality etc. READ the law. And if you can't read it, take my word for it. There is nothing in there giving you the right to refuse to show your ID. Yes, they can legally, racially profile you. Yes you can be singled out because of your white skin. Do not like it? Tough. It is the LAW of this land, and you are just going to have to deal with it.

Reyter said:
Now that I know the law, i wont just comply like any docile lackey and I hope you dont either.
Click to expand...

And if you don't comply they can arrest you because the law says you have to show your ID.
 
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Chidoriashi said:
And if you don't comply they can arrest you because the law says you have to show your ID.
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If that is what you wish to believe in order to try and convince yourself that you are not the kind of person who I said would just hand over their I.D. without question, you have my permission to do that. Just dont bother me with it thanks!
 
Reyter said:
If that is what you wish to believe in order to try and convince yourself that you are not the kind of person who I said would just hand over their I.D. without question, you have my permission to do that. Just dont bother me with it thanks!
Click to expand...

I have presented to you in a factual manner why you are wrong. You offer me no response. I pretty much spelled everything out for you. If you still cannot see it then you need improvement on your English and or Japanese comprehension.

If you do have an counter argument for me, where you can show me where in the laws that have been presented that I have misinterpreted them by all means please do so. Just saying I'm right and you are wrong with no reasoning behind it is ridiculous. This is not about beliefs my friend, these are plan facts written down in Japanese law, presented right in front of my eyes and yours, and if you can show that I misinterpreted those facts I would like you to try and do so. But I think you are just too stubborn/embarrassed to admit you are wrong about this after raving on about it post after post.

And since we are dealing with facts, the fact is I would had over my ID without question because the law demands it of me. You seem to be too delusional and blinded by your silly vendetta now to see that though, so when the judge listens to your "I was not under suspicion of a crime so I did NOT have to show ID" defense, and tears you a new one, please let me know so I can send you an "I told you so" postcard.
 
If you really think that the police as an institution are discriminatory against white people, work with these people (東京都人権啓発センター). The link is for Tokyo, but if you do a search for 人権啓発センター in whatever prefecture you live in, you will find the most relevant one for you.

If you're serious and not just a blowhard, the best thing to do is to try to take positive actions to rectify the situation.
 


But there is nothing inherently evil in checking your ID. Since persons of non-Japanese descent are scarce in Japan, it is fairly logical for the police to differentiate between people on racial grounds. If they are told that a 160cm tall female had behaved in a disorderly manner, the patrolling constables will have to screen a much higher number of pedestrians, if they are simply told that the person is a female foreigner, it becomes so much easier.

Another thing is that there is no point confronting authority (I mean authority in the sense of legislation here), unless you are in the right position to do so. If you are the member of the Japanese executive or the member of some pressure group and you are present on the field in a representative's quality, that's fine, you are raising awareness or whatever, but otherwise, merely as a foreigner who happened to be there, you are powerless and not suited to tackle the issue.

Most foreigners, I assume, wish to avoid intrusion. From what has been said here in this thread -in the absence of personal experience on my part- I think pissed Japanese policemen are the last thing foreigners need.

Which countries worth a damn? If we consider the police aspect, those countries that keep a police force to uphold peace and order (lets not go into the public assembly bit here hehe). By checking people from time to time the police deter people from committing crimes, prevent criminal acts directly and maintain an atmosphere of security. The Japanese police force -again, I am concluding this based on the information disclosed in this thread by persons who came into immediate contact with said police force- seems to match this image even if we consider its alleged oddities and failings.
 

Interesting and not a bad opinion. Certainly in comparison to most of the nonsense others have posted here. But you did say the police would randomly check people in any country worth a damn but the fact is that in any developed country, the police are expressly forbidden from doing that. And as I said previously, if a crime has been committed and I am a suspect, it is the law that I comply with police in showing my I.D. Even if it wasnt I wouldnt have a problem doing that but if they want to simply stop you and check I.D. because you are a foreigner, that is agaisnt the law as it should be in any country worth a damn in my humble opinion.
 
Yes and Japan is so bad that other countries don't have similar laws, maybe you could become a freedom fighter and loby for all these countries to stop these laws.

These are just two countries which I dug up the law and in the Netherlands , shock horror, you even have to produce ID when witness to a crime.

But we all know we are not talking about other countries, but you continue to press your racially charged opinions regardless of the fact that most countries will demand ID in many different situations. Some countries will not allow you to buy a drink without ID, which at this stage I have not seen in Japan(those hotel club owners in those countries must be all be fascists?)

You are a joke, a few people have shown you all the evidence that the police were well within the law to do what they did and you dismiss those posts as , in your words "nonsense". The only "nonsense" here is the lack understanding and complete ignorance on your part.
 
窶佚ｦ窶愿ｱﾂ湘ｰ
窶啀
ﾂ ﾅ遅ﾅｽ@ﾅ?ﾂｯ窶堙債、ﾋ?卍湘ｭ窶堙遺?ｹ窶懌?慊ｮ窶堋ｻ窶堙娯?伉ｼﾅｽﾃｼﾋ?坂?堙固ｽ窶督湘ｮ窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧﾂ坂?｡窶板昶?廬窶堙 窶敖ｻ窶冉窶堋ｵ窶堙??ｰﾂｽ窶堙ｧ窶堋ｩ窶堙娯?敕?催溪?堙ｰ窶敕??堋ｵﾂ、ﾅｽﾃ｡窶堋ｵ窶堋ｭ窶堙坂?敕??堋ｻ窶堋､窶堙??堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堙ｩ窶堙??ｹ^窶堋､窶堙俄?伉ｫ窶堙ｨ窶堙ｩ窶佛?窶懌?凪?堙遺?板昶?燃窶堙娯?堋?窶堙ｩﾅｽﾃ停?凪?昶?堙最?ﾃｹ窶堙可行窶堙ｭ窶堙ｪ窶堋ｽ 窶敕?催溪?堙俄?堙や?堋｢窶堙?、ﾅｽﾃ｡窶堋ｵ窶堋ｭ窶堙坂?敕?催溪?堋ｪﾂ行窶堙ｭ窶堙ｪ窶堙ｦ窶堋､窶堙??堋ｵ窶堙??堋｢窶堙ｩ窶堋ｱ窶堙??堙俄?堙や?堋｢窶堙??冦窶堙や?堙??堋｢窶堙ｩ窶堙??戳窶堙溪?堙ｧ窶堙ｪ窶堙ｩﾅｽﾃ停?堙ｰ窶凖｢ﾅｽ~窶堋ｳ窶堋ｹ窶堙?ｽﾂｿ窶禿｢ 窶堋ｷ窶堙ｩ窶堋ｱ窶堙??堋ｪ窶堙??堋ｫ窶堙ｩﾂ。

Reyter you claim to "know the law" in a lot of your posts, and since you will not willingly offer a rebuttal, I am going to challenge you to one.

Please show me in the above law, (the one you claim protects you from having to show your ID) where it says you have the right to refuse to show police your ID card unless under suspicion of committing a crime.

Wha..what's that?? Oh you cannot even read it for yourself? Oh wow that is ironic, you claiming to know soo much about the law you cannot even read for yourself. Your claims are completely ridiculous. And if you do not like me saying so then please prove to me that it is not actually you who are the one spewing out "nonsense".
 

That is precisely why clauses and sub sections have been added to the law but regardless, as I said in my last message to you. If it makes you feel better, please continue to do that but it wont change the fact no matter how it makes you feel.
 
Reyter said:
That is precisely why clauses and sub sections have been added to the law but regardless, as I said in my last message to you. If it makes you feel better, please continue to do that but it wont change the fact no matter how it makes you feel.
Click to expand...

I am assuming that Chidoriashi presented the provision in an amended (if it had been at any point), up to date state, which would exclude the possibility of further amendments currently existing. I mean, the thing tells in which circumstances a constable may stop and question a person, and it is hard to believe that elsewhere it would provide the contrary in the same act.

I think he is right in requesting evidence to support your allegations, and I too am of the opinion that this is no longer a matter of principle, but of law. People spend time digging up authority to support their claims and it is disrespectful to ignore the evidence they provide and simply carry on.
 
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