Police harassment in Japan

shakehip · 13 Dec 2004

Hi ! A few questions to anyone out there...

Are there any foreigners in Japan who've had problems with discrimination or harassment from police behaviour and would like to trade notes ?

Second, is there any clarification on the law in which Japanese police simply stop foreigners and young (even Japanese) people walking home (especially late at night ?) Is it constitutional ? In addition to having been stopped myself, they seem to just wait in the park and randomly stop people on a regular basis. Most recently I was "walking while white", completely sober, and had to endure a bit of questioning... I spoke to some friends and they said it wasn't because i was foreign, they do it to everyone... though I thought it was strange how the second I said, "Ich bin eine Amerikan," (in English) they let me go. I guess that automatically proved that I wasn't a rapist or a bank robber...

- - I also own a small business, and had to endure with some strange police tactics. A neighbor was conducting an "eigyo bogai" compaign by constantly calling the police against us... The police didn't want to come, so rather than go after the person for harassing us (they claimed the couldn't because they were calling anonymously) they tried to pressure us to close shop without siting any crimes. Apparently this is "normal" and perfectly legal... or is it ???

I admire the relative politeness of the Japanese police and low crime rate here, but I can't imagine that people don't have any issues with these random stops and the police claim that there are some laws that are not "black and white" and their right to "educate" and "mediate" in "grey" areas.

EP

Mike Cash · 13 Dec 2004

New vocabulary item for you: "shokushitsu" (職質), short for "shokumu shitsumon"

From 警察官職務執行法 (the relevant law):

第二条
１
警察官は、異常な挙動その他周囲の事情から合理的に判断して何らかの犯罪を犯し、若しくは犯そうとしていると疑うに足りる相当な理由のある者又は既に行われた犯罪について、若しくは犯罪が行われようとしていることについて知つていると認められる者を停止させて質問することができる。
２
その場で前項の質問をすることが本人に対して不利であり、又は交通の妨害になると認められる場合においては、質問するため、その者に付近の警察署、派出所若しくは駐在所に同行することを求めることがきる。
３
前二項に規定する者は、刑事訴訟に関する法律の規定によらない限り、身柄を拘束され、又はその意に反して警察署、派出所もしくは駐在所に連行され、若しくは答弁を強要されることはない。
４
警察官は、刑事訴訟に関する法律により逮捕されている者については、その身体について凶器を所持しているかどうかを調べることができる。

shakehip · 13 Dec 2004

Hi ! Wow, I understand about 70% of that... we just met and I communicate with you better than my wife ! ! ! But seriously, o.k. so would that justify "random stops", or for example stopping someone who's simply walking and dressed in the same manner as anyone else. - - As an example... there's this block and a turn that many people take to go home.... The police can usually be scene lingering at the part, then around the turn and usually they're questioning a person, usually younger, casually dressed people... obvoiusly not teenagers, but definitely young. In my case they were questioning one fellow, then when they were finished they biked after me... Actually, being from Philly when I heard a bike coming up behind me, I instinctively almost turned around and swung thinking I was about to get mugged, but then I remembered I'm in Japan, so I better look first... - - Now its true it was late at night, but its in an area where there are a lot of bars so a lot of the people aren't just customers of the bars, but people simply going home from work late at night... quite normal ? If I'm not mistaken, in the US random police stops are an "issue" but not quite illegal I believe (but I'm not a legal expert.) - - In all honesty, I thought the stop was a bit suspicious because the police had been pressuring us to close our shop (calling our house and shop) fairly regularly, so it was difficult to tell whether it was just a coincidence, or part of the harassment game.

PaulTB · 14 Dec 2004

mikecash said:
若しくは犯そう

You know when I first saw that I thought 'Looking young as if to commit a crime ...'

No, but seriously, I've seen at least one newsgroup post where somebody (apparently) Japanese has misread 若し and been corrected by somebody else.

But seriously, o.k. so would that justify "random stops", or for example stopping someone who's simply walking and dressed in the same manner as anyone else.

I dare say the law is vague enough that a suitable 'reason' can be thought up afterwards if required.

Elizabeth · 14 Dec 2004

Second, is there any clarification on the law in which Japanese police simply stop foreigners and young (even Japanese) people walking home (especially late at night ?)

Yeah, and don't forget native cyclists -- not only foreign pedestrians get this police state treatment. My only experience was with a Japanese guy once on our way home from a karaoke box around 1 am when they pulled him over supposedly for a broken tail light which made them suspect the bike had been stolen. :? and asked for his registration card. Everything went smoothly, not sure what would have happened if he hadn't had the papers, but everyone is obviously very aware of the possibility they could be the next target so it was all quite routine.

shakehip · 14 Dec 2004

Oh that happened to me too once... I didn't have my headlight on and I was riding my mother-in-law's bike...so the bike had the name in Kanji... But I can understand that.... I mean, I don't look Japanese obviously... and recently I learned the hard way how dangerous it is not to have your headlights on when you ride your bike recently. I was driving my "mamchari" a bit too quick a few weeks ago... looked both ways before crossing, and some guy didn't have his headlights on... didn't see him and WHAM... luckily no one got hurt. But ever since I got pulled over for not having the lamp on, I've made sure to have it on every time...!

Mike Cash · 14 Dec 2004

One very important thing to keep in mind:

<obscure_allegory>
Every time I buy hamburgers at McDonald's in Japan, they hand the bag to a white guy. Happens every single time I go there.
</obscure_allegory>

Elizabeth · 14 Dec 2004

shakehip said:
Oh that happened to me too once... I didn't have my headlight on and I was riding my mother-in-law's bike...so the bike had the name in Kanji... But I can understand that.... I mean, I don't look Japanese obviously... and recently I learned the hard way how dangerous it is not to have your headlights on when you ride your bike recently. I was driving my "mamchari" a bit too quick a few weeks ago... looked both ways before crossing, and some guy didn't have his headlights on... didn't see him and WHAM... luckily no one got hurt. But ever since I got pulled over for not having the lamp on, I've made sure to have it on every time...!

That's a good point....I hadn't considered the safety aspect. The weird thing was that it wasn't a ticket or warning or anything, though. The only justification was to verify this bike wasn't stolen property. Another lone, over-zealous vigilante taking the law into his own hands....

Kamisama · 14 Dec 2004

Foreigners should learn karate and be all like...

Omae yaru ka??

and then just say it over and over again until the person touches you.

And then bust out on the person.

Even if they touch your shoulder or pat you..

mikecash said:
One very important thing to keep in mind:

<obscure_allegory>
Every time I buy hamburgers at McDonald's in Japan, they hand the bag to a white guy. Happens every single time I go there.
</obscure_allegory>

Mike i would be all like... Nihonjin yo!! Nihonjin wo kudasai!!

PaulTB · 17 Dec 2004

Kamisama said:
Mike i would be all like... Nihonjin yo!! Nihonjin wo kudasai!!

I think you have misunderstood Mike's not really very obscure at all allegory.

Xert · 19 Dec 2004

mikecash said:
One very important thing to keep in mind:

<obscure_allegory>
Every time I buy hamburgers at McDonald's in Japan, they hand the bag to a white guy. Happens every single time I go there.
</obscure_allegory>

This had me rolling around on the floor. NIce Nice

Mike Cash · 19 Dec 2004

Remember the scene in "City Slickers" where they arrive at the ranch and meet the father-and-son dentists?

City Slickers said:
Phil Berquist: Where are you from?
Ben Jessup: Baltimore. We have a dental practice there.
Mitch Robbins: Really, you're both dentists?
Steve Jessup: Yes! We're black AND we're dentists. Let's not make an issue out of it.
Ben Jessup: Eh, they're not making an issue of it. You're making an issue of it.

Which goes along with my obscure allegory quite well, I think.

Reyter · 19 Aug 2009

Does anyone have info on the laws? I used to be harrassed by the police (stopped, asked to show my ID and questioned for absolutely no reason other than having white skin.) and did some research on what my rights are. I seem to remember reading that they must have a legitimate reason and simply having white skin isnt enough. This is easy to get around for the fascist police. They can just say something like "a foreigner was just reported smashing a window" or some such nonsense. In that case you have to show them but you have the right to first see their ID.

A few evenings ago, an aquaintence of mine was in a little trouble over an absurdly trivial affiar (accused of throwing a glass of water in the park and wetting someone. Of course this is probably true but given the fact that there were literally, about 50 Japanese people doing the same thing at the same time......... this guy was VERY unamused!). Anyway, I was there and as I speak a little Japanese the fascist police and the guy in question asked me to help out. I did so only to be then hit up and asked to show my own ID for inspection. I asked the fascist to show his ID first and he refused (I was surrounded by at least 10 of them at this point.) so I refused to show mine.

I eventually relented because I know that a number of laws changed this year and wasnt sure if this was one. Is this one of the laws that changed? Do foreigners have the right to first ask the fascists to show their ID?

pipokun · 19 Aug 2009

Reyter said:
...
(accused of throwing a glass of water in the park and wetting someone. Of course this is probably true but given the fact that there were literally, about 50 Japanese people doing the same thing at the same time......... this guy was VERY unamused!).
...

If they all got drunk and challenged the fascist then, I can understand your situation.
But if you did it without any sake, I am humbly asking you how old those 50 people are.

I sometimes see a criticism against Japan and the Japanese, "Everybody Does" mentality, but I feel quite assured tonight that everybody, Japanese or non-Japanese, has and likes it.

Reyter · 19 Aug 2009

No one challeneged the fascists at first. The people throwing the water were mostly young. I didnt look carefully. I saw them all throwing water so I got out of the way and the next thing I know this guy was asking me to help out because I could speak a little Japanese.

Some Japanese guy grabbed the foreigner and said "you wet me" and demanded compensation. The foreigner refused and the Japnese grabbed a policeman who must have been nearby and he then called half the force to the park. Also, the guy who got wet was hardly wet. I noticed his right side sleeve was wet and he was wearing a t-shirt so his arm must have gotten wet as well. The police admitted early on that they couldnt charge him as the only witnesses made a statement to say the foreigner did nothing wrong. They still held him for about 5 hours trying to get him to pay compensation.

That isnt really the issue anyway. I urged the guy not to just let it go and to try to find out if there was any facility in which he could lodge a complaint but that isnt my business. I am wondering if anyone knows my rights. (If I have any. Fascist police obviously believe they can act with impunity. )

Glenski · 20 Aug 2009

Reyter said:
Does anyone have info on the laws? I used to be harrassed by the police (stopped, asked to show my ID and questioned for absolutely no reason other than having white skin.) and did some research on what my rights are. I seem to remember reading that they must have a legitimate reason and simply having white skin isnt enough. This is easy to get around for the fascist police. They can just say something like "a foreigner was just reported smashing a window" or some such nonsense. In that case you have to show them but you have the right to first see their ID.

It's not nonsense as long as the alleged complaint was real.

I asked the fascist to show his ID first and he refused (I was surrounded by at least 10 of them at this point.) so I refused to show mine.
I eventually relented because I know that a number of laws changed this year and wasnt sure if this was one. Is this one of the laws that changed? Do foreigners have the right to first ask the fascists to show their ID?

I have not heard of any change to this one. If they show you theirs, you must show yours. Confirm any changes on www.debito.org .

Reyter · 20 Aug 2009

Thats the point. Who am I to say and how can I prove the complaint isnt real? One could only rely on honest cops or strongly anti-fascist cops willing to report the fascists. From my experience the chances of either in Japan are very slim.....

Chidoriashi · 20 Aug 2009

I hear of people having trouble with the police, but honestly I have been here more than 5 years and am out and about on my bike all the time and I have only been stopped 3 times. The first time they were looking for illegal foreigners (not sure if that is legal but whatever). The second time was the next day in the same area with a different cop, and right when I was stopped I starting complaining about being stopped the previous day, and he immediately sent me on my way, no questions asked. And the 3rd time I was riding niketsu (two people on one bike) with my girlfriend which is illegal, and I just played dumb. They checked my ID and told me to stop doing that and sent us on our way. So in reality 97 times out of about 100 the police have just ignored me. So I'm not sure if people are over exaggerating or making themselves sound more innocent than they actually are, or if they just live in an area with abusive cops, but I personally have no problems with the Japanese police.

Reyter · 20 Aug 2009

Sounds to me you dont mind fascsits picking you out for random I.D. checks only because you have white skin. I bet you are also anti-unions. I mind that but this is still beside the point in this case.
Does anyone know if the fascist policeman must show his ID when trying to see mine and when asked to show his own? If so, does anyone know any facility whereby I can lodge an offical complaint?

I am so tired tired a fascist Japanese police thinking they can act with impuity in regard to foreigners.

Chidoriashi · 20 Aug 2009

Reyter said:
Sounds to me you dont mind fascsits picking you out for random I.D. checks only because you have white skin. I bet you are also anti-unions. I mind that but this is still beside the point in this case.
Does anyone know if the fascist policeman must show his ID when trying to see mine and when asked to show his own? If so, does anyone know any facility whereby I can lodge an offical complaint?
I am so tired tired a fascist Japanese police thinking they can act with impuity in regard to foreigners.

First of all, do not suppose that you know anything about me, because you don't.

Have you ever thought for a moment you might be over reacting? Tell me why is it that I have seen Japanese people getting stopped at random and I can just go on by? Do you really think that you are always being singled out? The fact is Japanese people get stopped at random too. My girlfriend, who is Japanese, was asked to show her ID to the police as well when they stopped me. I am sorry that you seem to be having such dire troubles with the police though. I simply have never experienced it in that way. Now if I was getting stopped like 10 times a year and it was always because I was a foreigner I might have an issue. In any case if this is really that big of a deal to you I would suggest you go on down to your local city hall and ask them. Or research some of the links other posters have already given to you.

pipokun · 20 Aug 2009

Chidoriashi said:
I hear of people having trouble with the police,
...

Chidori, the Reyter's case is a bit different from yours, mine or Bob Dylan in the US that his friend made a trouble first. Though I am just wondering how many Japanese cops recognize Bob Dylan, the fascist cops surely and equally do the same thing if he would wet strangers in Japan.

Reyter, I hope that you don't have any complaint of the public intoxication friendly situation here. I highly appreciate your cooperation to retain our right, getting drunk (but not too much to stay away from the stupidity).
Happy drinking!

Reyter · 21 Aug 2009

The guy isnt really my friend, just a guy I know and he absolutely didnt make trouble first. Lots of people were throwing water (not enough to cause anyone any trouble and it was isolated to one small corner.) and he joined in but was obviously singled out due to having white skin. Dont say it was anything to do with intoxication. It was simply due to the Japanese police force being a fascist organization! At first i was also doing my best translating for the fascists themselves.

I have since done research and what I thought was true is still. The fascists dont have the right to ask to see your ID simply because you have white skin. They must suspect you of involvement in a crime. This is easy to get around for the fascsts as they can just make something up but you absolutely have the right to see thier ID before showing your own.

pipokun · 21 Aug 2009

Write a letter of complaint to your local public safety commission.

Following should be included:
1. Your name, address and telephone number
2. In case you would like to receive the result of your petition at a different address, write the contact address, name, address and telephone number
3. Summarize the fascist conduct/duty causing you to file the petition incl. the date and the place
4. Specify the disadvantageous fact(s) of yours, unfair treatment(s) by the police duty or how much the police officer did fascist-like behaviour
お知らせ | 東京都公安委員会 Tokyo Metropolitan Public Safety Commission

If memory serves, the Glenski's favourite guy, debito, also filed a petition after being questioned by a cop on the special occasion, G-8 summit in Hokkaido, and his great advantage was that he recorded the conversation with the cop. But so far (really sorry, if I am wrong), I've never heard of anything new like his filing a lawsuit against the notice. Though only thing I clearly remember is the way the fascist spoke was quite soft and well-mannered, you can get more info on how to write a letter from him.

FrustratedDave · 21 Aug 2009

Reyter said:
The guy isnt really my friend, just a guy I know and he absolutely didnt make trouble first. Lots of people were throwing water (not enough to cause anyone any trouble and it was isolated to one small corner.) and he joined in but was obviously singled out due to having white skin. Dont say it was anything to do with intoxication. It was simply due to the Japanese police force being a fascist organization! At first i was also doing my best translating for the fascists themselves.
I have since done research and what I thought was true is still. The fascists dont have the right to ask to see your ID simply because you have white skin. They must suspect you of involvement in a crime. This is easy to get around for the fascsts as they can just make something up but you absolutely have the right to see thier ID before showing your own.

Mikawa Ossan · 21 Aug 2009

Chidoriashi said:
I hear of people having trouble with the police, but honestly I have been here more than 5 years and am out and about on my bike all the time and I have only been stopped 3 times.

I lived in Japan longer than that, and I have only been stopped by the police from two to four times, depending how you count.
1) A long time ago, I was riding double on a scooter with my girlfriend (I was new to Japan at the time.) The officers took my passport number and then basically ignored me. My girlfriend, however, had to go inside the patrol car and received a ticket.
2) I was told be police in Shinjuku station that it's illegal to sit in the station. When I stood up, the officer left. (Didn't have to show I.D.)
3) I was waiting for a friend at night outside a Royal Host in Shinjuku. My friend was really late getting out of work, so I had to wait a long time in the dark. A police officer came and politely asked what I was doing. When I showed him my foreigner card, he was truly interested and chatted with me for a couple of minutes and explained the situation. Apparently he was doing his rounds and saw me a half hour earlier. It looked suspicious to him (understandably so!), so he decided to check me out.
4) I was speeding on the highway/tollway system. I admit it. The police were much nicer than the police were here in America when I got caught speeding as a teenager! lol
Other than that, the only experience I have had with the police is asking them for directions, playing volleyball with the town police officer, filing a police report once, being a passenger as my (Japanese) friend passed through a checkpoint looking for alcohol use, experiencing them working a crime scene, etc.
Yes, very fascist indeed.

Police harassment in Japan

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