National Fervor Returning to Japan?

[randomcow]

Now, now, children, play nicely.

Luckily for you all everything you need to know about Japanese/Korean relations over the past 200 years or so is well documented on occidentalism.org

For example:

Japanese Patriotism:

occidentalism.org/?p=432
occidentalism.org/?p=300


Comfort Women:

occidentalism.org/?p=309
occidentalism.org/?p=50


Wartime Atrocity Photos:

occidentalism.org/?p=94
occidentalism.org/?p=53


Japanese Historybook Distortions:

occidentalism.org/?p=75
occidentalism.org/?p=35


Human Rights in Japan for Zainichi

occidentalism.org/?p=262


Yasukuni Visit

occidentalism.org/?p=313

Feel free to ask me any questions, or otherwise join the debate over on the site

 

[Emoni]

It is both amazing and frightening the things that people can post, say, and do in the world with a smile...

 

[gaijinalways]

Don't worry all. Caster51 has a history of posting these kinds of right wing comments. Sorry Caster, the Okinawans and Ainu are still considered 'lesser' citizens in Japan, ask one of them if you don't wish to believe my opinion.
As to rising nationalism, I think this nationalistic movement is less sidelined than the Nazi or KKK movements. Quite a few Japanese seem to support some kind of nationalism, though it is often cloaked in a pacifist movement. Though I suppose some will claim that continued support of a 'unique' Japan is not nationalism, but I would opine in some ways that it is, as often this idea of one race is promoted, and that this creates a better (often translated as safer and more peaceful) society.

The other problem in Japan is that a number of LDP members support this right wing 'rhetoric' (my words) by linking it with a loss of pride in Japan. The same groups who want to rewrite history include the governor of Tokyo. Other LDP members are often strangely silent in opposing these kinds of remarks. If you revisit the book 'The Japan that can say no' and look at Ishihara's opinions coupled with the deceased Morita's comments, it is a primarily US bashing book, and at times links US problems to allowing inferior ethinic groups into their population (sounds familar to the foreign caused crime wave charges in Japan). This book's warm reception in Japan constrasted with the US reception, which unfortunately led to some Japan bashing, mostly related to rejection of Japanese products for largely irrational reasons.
So why would the book's reception in Japan cause little or no discussion? Well, in my opinion many Japanese simply think a lot of problems are caused by ethnic differences, rather than probing more deeply and realizing that some problems in society are rather caused by income/class differences and unequal access to better higher education, etc., problems that exist in every society.

Now why would many Japanese believe this? That I really don't know, but it seems to be very linked to this 'we are a unique country' line you often hear bandied about, that and the government seems to softly promote it within the country as a rallying point (makes a nice contrast to the 'international citizen' rhetoric also spouted by the same government).

As a further note, these kinds of right wing publications are on the rise as nationalistic manga and magazines promote this 'higher' Japanese being theory. There is opposition, though some of this is muted due to threats to access to mainstream politicians and threats of anti-patriotic sentiments boil to the surface.

 

[taehyun]

There's a difference between patriotism and radical nationalism.I'm afraid the man from Christian Science Monitor has confused them, but my overall impression is that CSM is little bit extreme and sensational about that kind of issues.
Teaching children to love and know their country is good.I'm afraid that many young Japanese have forgotten many good aspects of their culture, and I've encountered astonishing ignorance about Japanese history, literature and traditions among them.
But teaching them hatred-if such thing exists, I'm sure it is not in school, but mostly at home, by parents like caster, for example.
Yeah, randomcow, how good that most young Koreans don't visit such sites.

 

[Derekuma]

my first ever posting -- nothing has changed

"US bashing..."
"Japan bashing.. "
"patriotism of Japan"
"the dangers of nationalism"
"the Okinawans and Ainu are still considered 'lesser' citizens "
"Once again, what exactly is your point?"

When I first went to Japan 20 years ago, I would read the letters to the editor in the Japan Times & the like & they were on exactly the same issues & the comments were exactly the same from the same nationalities..
NOTHING HAS CHANGED
I never commented then but this looks like fun so I'll throw my penny worth in...
It struck me back then as it does now that everyone looks back, no one looks forward.. coming from a little unimportant country it is interesting, if not boring, to watch the " JP><US bashing .."
Japanese have changed a lot & in my humble opinion, I agree with Gaijinalways they are trying to build some PRIDE back into their country, let them fumble around with a few idea.
but I would like to throw a few comments in...
'lesser' citizens " who told you that... read it alot..but the few Ainu I met had no opinion on the topic.
"cannot possibly have a sense of the world or a concept of government and country"....surely you can not equate the life an 8 year old had in japan in 1940 , a country that had only been "modernized" by CEO, sorry, Admiral Perry 80 years earlier,.. to the life of an 8 year old today..! some of the 8 year olds I know are just as likely to throw some Eminem back @ me rather than be spoon feedsome of the stuff in the text books.
"inward focused arrogance and self-pride."
have you ever counted the number of times you will see a US flag in a US movie or TV shows .... keep it in mind for the next few movies & for the rest of your life all you will see is these flags.. then do it with any other countries movies or TV shows..
"the United States were both times very apprehensive about going to war "
such a simplistic, decisive phrase about what on both occasions were very complex issues that the victor wrote into history..
I grew up listening to the words of Peter Garrett...
"US Forces give the nod, it's a setback for your country
Bombs and trenches all in rows, bombs and threats still ask for more
Divided world the CIA say who control the issue
You leave us with no time to talk, you can write your own assessment"
and
"Conquistador of Mexico, the Zulu and the Navajo
The Belgians in the Congo short memory
Plantation in Virginia, the Raj in British India
The deadline in South Africa short memory
The story of El Salvador, the silence of Hiroshima
Destruction of Cambodia short memory
Short memory, must have a, short memory"
who you say, well there you go.. & what that showed me was HISTORY does not equal FACT..
Step back, try to look at the situation from a different view point,..Japan does alot / enough self criticism, I don't think the same can be said of the US..
here is a little petrol(gas for you Yanks.. that's a term of endearment down here !!!) on the fire..
Do you think it would be considered Nationalistic / Patriotic / Idiotic for the Japanese to ask the US to remove its bases from Tokyo...( keep the rest for the Commie threat across the sea).. I was shocked when I discovered that the US still occupied & WAS GETTING PAID TO DO SO , so much of Tokyo , just out my back door..
At present, there are eight U.S. military bases including Yokota Air Baseﾂ in Tokyo. The total area of the bases is approximately 1,603 hectares (3,959 acres). HOW MUCH is that worth !!
"In its proposed budget for fiscal 2005, Japan has set aside 237.8 billion yen for the sympathy budget.
Of this amount, 68.9 billion yen is allocated toward providing facilities such as family housing for military personnel, and 29.8 billion yen toward social insurance premium costs for Japanese employees of U.S. forces, both arranged under the bilateral Status of Forces Agreement.
The Japan Times: Feb. 12, 2005"

 

[gaijinalways]

'lesser' citizens " who told you that... read it alot..but the few Ainu I met had no opinion on the topic.

Ask them about it when they go for job interviews (the same goes for Okinawans).

have you ever counted the number of times you will see a US flag in a US movie or TV shows .... keep it in mind for the next few movies & for the rest of your life all you will see is these flags.. then do it with any other countries movies or TV shows..

Are you equating flag waving with patriotism? Also, remember that cultural aspects have to do with whether flags are flown (as well as zoning laws).

Step back, try to look at the situation from a different view point,..Japan does alot / enough self criticism, I don't think the same can be said of the US..

Uh, the culture in Japan doesn't encourage much of it, criticism. More often people grin and bear it and say 'Shoganai' which loosely translates to 'It can't be helped', when more often it should be translated as 'We can't take action to change it even though we think it's not good or inefficent to do it this way' or that 'It can't be helped because we don't want to help you, your relationship to us is not valued enough versus other relations we have'. I would say the US does a lot more of, probably too much sometimes.

Do you think it would be considered Nationalistic / Patriotic / Idiotic for the Japanese to ask the US to remove its bases from Tokyo...

Hardly, it would be good for the US too, except for figuring what to do with all the returning military personnel.

There's a difference between patriotism and radical nationalism.

Definately, and in Japan it seems to be leaning more and more to the latter.

 

[pipokun]

The book 'The Japan that can say no' is nothing but a self-criticism book for Japan.
When you say "Japan is leaning more and more to radical nationalism", do you have any findings after you stay here. At least that ultra-natinalistic book you might call was published about 20 years ago, and Japan must be more radical if your interpretation is right.
When you are too sensitive on anti-US or anti-Japan media, there's no place to live in the world, even at home.

Off-topic
The JET program is also about 20 yrs old, but I cannot say anything if you'd ask if the English skill of people improved or not.

 

[gaijinalways]

Not sure what the relation is between the JET program and the radical nationalism here. Enlighten me please, as it's way off topic. And no, there hasn't been much improvement in their English language ability in that time. English through music and

Have you read the book either in japanese or English? It's hardly a self criticism. Shintaro Ishihara is a well known right-winger who made derisive comments about American society in the book. Ishihara hasn't changed much since then, in case you haven't noticed. He is continually in the news as a governor of Tokyo, once drawing the ire of female voters (but not long enough to convince them to not vote him in again) for his sexist comments.

Yes, as I have mentioned, there are new books with basically the same message, though many of them have not been translated. The present manga hate series are hardly self critical either, with claims that the Chinese eat people and that the Koreans owe all their economic development to the Japanese. So yes, it has gotten worse.

 

[caster51]

the Okinawans and Ainu are still considered 'lesser' citizens in Japan, ask one of them if you don't wish to believe my opinion

please link it ..like that
【深刻だよ】沖縄での大和人差別＆イジメを考える １５【マジで】
◆沖縄県民よ！次は何が欲しいのかね！？パート２◆
まちＢＢＳ沖縄掲示板

The same groups who want to rewrite history include the governor of Tokyo

many ppl always say about that like a Buddhist prayer
I dont know what rewriting history is
please explain it concretely.
to say "No" to other country is sovereign nation's right.

This book's warm reception in Japan constrasted with the US reception, which unfortunately led to some Japan bashing, mostly related to rejection of Japanese products for largely irrational reasons.

this book was written in 1989.
that was before this book was written( from 70')
in my opnion,The Nixon decision on August 15, 1971 to remove the dollar from a fixed, gold-backed exchange rate system..
I think it was a declaration of defeat in manufacturing or making products to japan

 

[Sukotto]

ruling classes always seek to ensure their positions in their own societies.
and play on the prejudices of the people.

what are the specifics of Japan?
i do not know.
test the model and see if it fits.
it definately fits in the US

 

[pipokun]

Yes, I did. I could not get good scores if I described the book were just anti-American one.
How do you explain Ishihara was sued by adovocate groups so many times? I cannot say Japan is no self-criticism country. It's the same, though not 100% lawyer heaven, that some people always blame others for rainy, snowy or sunny weather. Even "it's me" frauds abuse the right to sue someone.

It is sad that there's no court on crime against friendship, but it must be the crime that the Korean government did not tell anything about the diplomatic effort with Japan for 50 years.
About the PRC or the DPRK, they have a bit different political regimes.

I said off-topic, but
I don't the program itself is good or efficient one for language education, I'm the good example here, however in terms of friendship, it was not that bad esp., for people living in rural parts of Japan.
To make the program more efficient is not that ultra nationalistic tendency.

 

[caster51]

I like that

 

[Mrjones]

"It's the same, though not 100% lawyer heaven, that some people always blame others for rainy, snowy or sunny weather. Even "it's me" frauds abuse the right to sue someone."
care to explain ? does this have anything do with the topic ?
"I like that"
care to explain, how is this picture also related to thread ? Intresting ,all women?

 

[Emoni]

I'm looking forward to an explanation of this picture as well. I can only expect it is going to be somewhat "interesting" to say the least.

 

[taehyun]

I think it is that "women in uniform" thing...

 

[pipokun]

does this have anything do with the topic ?

Yes, if you have something to say against a public figure, just go to court.
And it is also ok that you just want to get publicity.

And no matter how eco-friendly you are, you will get arrested if you hurt someone. Even the far-right activist with loud speakers obeys local noise regulations.

 

[Sukotto]

I feel sort of uncomfortable talking on this thread, since I am not from Japan. It is rather the country I live in and thusly have a moral right & as well as a legal to say things about. And given what prx-ahole said last night (escalation of an act of agression & illegal occupation - war crimes) and done in the last number of years (really just out in the open what other jerks in the past have been more subtle about) i've almost got a moral responsibility to place my energies there instead. It's not my gov't, in fact I'm not sure I even believe in gov'ts, but it is where i was born, so that is where "they" are supposed to have to listen to people like me.

....whether one believes in countries or not, it is certainly among people's rights to form groups as they see fit, i.e. association. A country, like Japan, might be one such group, which of course has legitimacy only in so far as the very people that make it up say it does. It is not a figure-head alone, like a US president, that makes a gov't legit. Like the peoples of East & West Germany said no to the Berlin Wall and THEY, Not ANY other force, were the ones to tear it down.

Like I said, I do not know the details of current Japanese people's reasonings of how they decide what to do in their country.
I seem to have read some stuff about some people wanting a "regular" military so as to become a "regular" country. But so what if a country doesn't have a military, it doesn't make them any less of a country. If people from other countries have an over-bloated ego and think guns makes one strong, let them. Their own sense of self-inadiquacy will be their own down-fall. You don't want to be jerk-faces like those running the US empire, do you? I can understand not wanting foreign troops in one's country. But there's got to be a better way to get them out than more violence that only begets more violence.


blah, blah, blah....
like i said, i don't exactly feel comfortable telling other people how they should be, like they should be more patriotic or nationalistic or whatever, or not, so totally ignore all the above if it goes there. just this I will say with utmost belief: no one fake thing called a "country" is better than any other single fake thing called a "country". no single group of people is better than any other group of people. well, maybe child molesters, rapists, and dick cheney's administration are less moral than other groups of people, but I still do NOT think they should get the death penalty.