Missionaries in Japan

[Riyko]

I have to agree with the rapidly-emerging "Mormon missionaries are annoying" consensus that is forming on this thread.
They seem to be a pretty well-financed group over here. In my city I see them almost everyday on their little bikes with their little nameplates and helmets cornering people who often seem somewhat threatened by having a couple 6ft2 bucktoothed 19 year olds from Salt Lake city confronting them on their religious beleifs while they are on their way back from picking up a tube of toothpaste at the drug store. Hell of a way to market a religion, I can't imagine that they've had much success with it.
They came by my place once while I was outside and didn't have any good hiding places to jump into. They engaged me in about 5 minutes worth of obligatory banter before I excused myself by saying I had to run off to work. They never got into their religious speil, I guess they save it for the Japenese.

I agree with this 100% living in Utah and not being mormon you consistantly have them coming up to you asking you what you think of the book of mormon and if your not mormon they'll give you a bible and tell you to read the highlighted or tabbed sections of it and they'll come back at a later date to talk to you about it.

My parents finally got so tired of it they just told the missionaries if you come on my property again I'll grab my shotgun and it seemed to work to because we don't have to deal with them anymore.

On to the subject at hand no I don't think missionary's should be allowed over in japan because it'll brainwash them into believing something that they don't really believe in. Also Mormon missionaries aren't allowed to serve a mission over in japan anymore, i'm not sure the reason why, but they can't go to japan for missions so it saves them from that religion.

 

[Buntaro]

PsychoticNess,

Actually, You and I have a lot in common. It sounds like you have decided to respect non-Christians as non-Christians. If so, I would like to thank you for your being open-minded.

Although the phrase you used, "seeing if anyone wants to be a christian with us," makes me feel a little uncomfortable. What exactly do you mean by that? Do you approach strangers and initiate religious disussions with them, when they have not asked for, nor shown an interest in such discussions?

 

[Mitsuo]

I live in Utah (The Land of the Mormons), I don't have a problem with them asking if I would like to learn about their religion. Of course I would decline, but as long as they don't push it. Ask why and so on. If I say "No", then it's a "NO!". One of my best friends and my cousin are both on their missions in Rio de Janeiro. (They don't know each other). But anyways, they really look forward to it. It helps them feel useful within their religion, and in a way "completes" them. So there is no need to be un-civil with them, if encountered. Unless of course they are being rude and not respecting your wishes. I recommend the strategy that my fellow Utahn, Riyko, said. Tell them you have a shotgun and tell them you're not afraid to use it. (^_^) But, if they want to spread the word of their religion, then I say go for it. You can either take it or leave it. No ones forcing anyone to participate in their religion. (Unless of course they are born into it)

I also agree that they can be extremely annoying.

 

[PsychoticNess]

PsychoticNess,
Actually, You and I have a lot in common. It sounds like you have decided to respect non-Christians as non-Christians. If so, I would like to thank you for your being open-minded.
Although the phrase you used, "seeing if anyone wants to be a christian with us," makes me feel a little uncomfortable. What exactly do you mean by that? Do you approach strangers and initiate religious disussions with them, when they have not asked for, nor shown an interest in such discussions?

To answer your question, I don't/don't plan to walk up to people asking people if they know Jesus, that's not what missioning is. I just live my life. I'm not trying to be vein or prideful at all, but I'm saying that one has to just live the life of God. Show them what Christianity is like by how you live it. Whitness to them by action, not by harassment. It's situational how one is 'supposed' to mission, but practically the same concept. When I say "Seeing if anyone wants to be Christian with us," I mean I'm living my life, If people ask why I pray before I eat, or why I carry a bible around, or why I go to church then I'll share with them. I think I answered your question... hopefully haha.

 

[Buntaro]

PsychoticNess,

Yes, you did answer my question. I now understand what you mean by "mission", that you "mission" by your actions, not by what you say. I do the same thing.

However, I do not carry around religious books, as a potential way of striking up conversations. I have also thought about wearing a religious symbol as a necklace, but I have chosen not to do this.

It is rare indeed that a Christian (you) and a non-Christian (me) can have any type of discussion (about religion) at all. I hope that our discussions together can continue, and can stand as an example to others.

 

[PsychoticNess]

mhmm

 

[Han Chan]

I find the seriously bad manners of the missionaries in Shibuya amasing. Every time I get out in front of the station in Shibuya I come across theese angry looking guys with their loudspeakers overpowering all the other noise: "Jes Crist....". I am shure that most Japanese are equally annoyed as I am, but the fact that those missionaries are not removed from there shows that Japanese are actually very tolerant.

Imagine i a group of muslims chose to try to overpower the other noise at "Times Square" or "Champs-Elysees" whith loudspeakers booming: "Allah Akbar".

I am a very tolerant person myself and I believe that everyone should enjoy freedom of religion and expression. However, I find that they are doing Christianity a disfavor by their bad behavior.

Before anyone attacks me for beeing Dane, I would like to stress that I do not support what that newspaper did, because it is disrespectful to ridicule others beliefs. I believe in live and let live, and certainly: if one starts with showing bad manners there are no way that anyone will seriously consider ones message.

 

[Compman]

I have two comments.

the first comment is that infidel is a negative word. I like to think of people as Christians or non-Christian. They may have used infidel in the past but today it is rarely used because of it's negative connotations. Christians are meant to love their neighbors not belittle them.

The second comment is that Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses are considered cults by most of the main line Christians because they fail to believe in the basic beliefs taught in the Bible. One of them is that Jesus was God. They believe that Jesus was less then who he claimed to be.

 

[Mars Man]

This is my first time to see you, Compman. Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy it all, as we share and learn together in this big, worldwide family.

It's interesting how old threads sometime get bumped up to the top, but that's because we always have new folks coming who want to join in the talk...that's the beauty of it all !! Thanks for sharing.

I agree with the first comment, yet the second one is somewhat weaker. It could be fairer to say that there are two possible understandings when looking at all that had been written by the earliest of the Christian writers--that is the works which became canonized.

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

I agree with the first comment, yet the second one is somewhat weaker. It could be fairer to say that there are two possible understandings when looking at all that had been written by the earliest of the Christian writers--that is the works which became canonized.

Most early writings are very clear, especially after the councils under Constantine, that such movements as Arianism and later Monophysitism were false and heretical, each claiming either that Christ was 100% man or 100% spirit. In fact, Monophysitism persisted in the East until the Muslim invasions during the reign of Emperor Heraclius.

Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism are indeed cults that diverge from canonical Christianity in a variety of ways. While I wouldn't refer to them as infidels, I would classify them as heretics, because they diverge from accepted Christian canon. This doesn't necessarily mean they are going to Hell, by the way....

the first comment is that infidel is a negative word. I like to think of people as Christians or non-Christian. They may have used infidel in the past but today it is rarely used because of it's negative connotations. Christians are meant to love their neighbors not belittle them.

Yes, infidel is a negative word, absolutely. I'd even go further than thinking of people as Christian or non-Christian (because they are labels that people use, and I know plenty Christians who I wonder about) but rather as "saved" and "not saved". Those who aren't saved should be preached to. But if they reject the message, they reject the message. And the message shouldn't be "I am good, you are bad, you are going to Hell!!!!" Rather, it should be, "I found a way that I believe is the right way, and it's set me free, so please let me tell you about it and then you can make your own decision."

These people speaking into bullhorns and standing on soapboxes annoy me and embarass me. I feel they do more to harm what I stand for than an atheist that hates Christians with a black passion and claims Christianity is the single worst thing that ever happened to mankind.

NOTE: Not all atheists are like that, but I personally know a few who are, and I honestly think that they don't even come half as close to harming Christianity on a bad day as Jerry Falwell does on a good one.

 

[Buntaro]

" ...please let me tell you about it and then you can make your own decision."

--> As a non-Christian who regularly counsels people injured by Christian prostelyzers, I teach these injured people to respond to such Christian pushiness with, "Thank you for giving me the opportunity to practice being compassionate." I would never allow my friends (injured or not) to verbally respond to such an offer to make such a decision.

Yes, the quote above is pushy. The fact that it is pushy, and the fact that Christians do not see it as pushy, is what this whole debate is all about.

We must defend ourselves against all Christian proselyters, even ones who use an insidious phrase such as in the example above. Defend ourselves we will.

We live in a world that is in a terribly polarized religiously. It is a rare, rare day indeed when a Christian and a non-Christian can sit down and have a decent discussion about religion. I can only ask that the Christians stop the polarizing, stop the proselyting, and let us all live in the same world peacefully. Christians would be amazed by what non-Christians have to share, if only the Christians would give us a chance. When will that day come?

I know many, many non-Christians who refuse to have ANYTHING to do with Christians. I, on the other hand, am always willing to take the risk and "open up a channel" with Christians. Please appreciate the risk I am taking, for it truly is a risk. Let's take the lead and work to open up these "channels of communication," as rare as they are.

"These people should be preached to."

--> Thank you for the opportunity to practice my compassion.

 

[Mars Man]

Hi there again buntaro ! (can you believe it? It is coming up close to a year ago that you and I met on this very thread. . . wow. . .[and I have that much less hair to show for it all])

It was nice to hear from you. I must admit that it did seem (to a small degree) a bit stronger in lean than what I had recalled from the past, but it also had that usual element of thoughtfulness and patience.

Hi there GodEmperorLeto san. Nice to hear from you. I wish I could go into detail here, but this is not the place for it, and the place where such could have been discussed in the past has been cast into a castle donjon somewhere over in Europe, never to bee released again, so. . .

Well, the papyri and fragments of text that most likely date back to the late first to early second century--such as the P45 group and such--clearly predate the Niciene (if my spelling is correct there) council, of course, and even predate the earliest known cataloge--the Muratorian fragment. For that reason, along with a couple of others, I'd argue that we are not required to adhere to strict canonizations of the late third or early fouth centuries.

Thanks for sharing there. I kind of feel that missonaries should apply the 'we won't call you, please call us' rule of thumb.

 

[Buntaro]

My man Mars Man!

One year already...?

 

[Mycernius]

Just a quick note on the word infidel. It was original applied to anyone who does not follow the teachings of the one God. Christians and Jews are not infidels as God had already revealed teachings to them via prophets. Mohammad was just a continuation to bring them message to the Arab people. As with most religious words it has been used and twisted to mean different ideas from what it was originally. Another is Jihad.

 

[zero g]

honestly I could care less... but it does offer a different view on things and I believe if this is the way they are going to live then let them...

 

[Compman]

Thanks


I am not sure how to include previous quotes.

Mars Man
"This is my first time to see you, Compman. Welcome to the forum. I hope you enjoy it all, as we share and learn together in this big, worldwide family."

Thanks for your kind greeting.

Buntaro
"As a non-Christian who regularly counsels people injured by Christian prostelyzers, I teach these injured people to respond to such Christian pushiness with, "Thank you for giving me the opportunity to practice being compassionate." I would never allow my friends (injured or not) to verbally respond to such an offer to make such a decision. "


I am sad that people are wounded by Christian prostelyzers. Missionary Christians prime example should be love and kindness but I am afraid that many of them are not alway that way.

 

[Buntaro]

Compman,

You said,

"I am sad that people are wounded by Christian prostelyzers. Missionary Christians prime example should be love and kindness but I am afraid that many of them are not alway that way."

--> The funny thing is, I believe that their aggressive behavior will earn them a little time in Hell. (I believe Hell is temporary, not eternal.) They think their faith in Jesus will guarantee them no time in Hell, when I think it will not guarantee any such thing at all. I believe they will be in for quite a surprise when they get over to the "other side".

 

[amandae]

I was a missionary in Japan, 14 years ago

I am a Mormon. I was a missionary in Kyoto , Japan 14 years ago. Today was my first time visiting your site. I was shocked at the misconseption that many people had about mormon missionaries. I must first point out, contrary to some comments I read, Mormons are Christian. If you do not believe me, I ask you, What categorizes a religion as being Christian? Universally, Mormons read and study from the King James version of the Holy Bible. However I am not writing to dispute religion.

The point I really want to make is this; I spent 18 months in Japan. Half of that time, I lived with one other female, who was Japanese, not American. I was not there to make the Japanese people more "American". I loved Japan. I loved the culture and spent as much time as I could allow, visiting the beautiful temples and shrines. I was simply there to share my devotion to Christ, and to serve the Japanese people, in any way I could. Maybe as a female, I was less obtrusive that my male counterparts. However, I learned more from the Japanese culture and people, than I am sure anyone learned from me. There are many missionaries who were there with humble attitudes and respect for the traditions of the people there. I am sorry for those who incounter some that may not have that attitude.

 

[Mycernius]

I loved Japan. I loved the culture and spent as much time as I could allow, visiting the beautiful temples and shrines. I was simply there to share my devotion to Christ, and to serve the Japanese people, in any way I could.

If you loved Japan and its way of life, why do you wish to change it? The Japanese have their own religion and it has served them well for longer than Christianity has existed. Plus how do you know you are so correct. If we compare Shinto and Christianity for the amount of blood split in the name of God or Gods I think you will find that Christianity wins. If I want peace and love compared on that alone, I'll go with the Japanese religion.

 

[Compman]

I cannot answer for others and I think there can be many answers as to why someone would want to be a missionary in Japan. I think the question needs to be asked is religion something that is a matter of our imagination or is there a reality to it. The other point is if we truely believe what our religion teaches we will want to share it with others. Christianity in particular has been driven by the fact that it teaches a hope and a blessing for those that believe it and punishment for those that don't. Christians though are not to punish people or force them to believe but to love everyone. Many people have done cruel things in the name of Christianity and it is evidence that they truely are not following the teachings of Christ. Christians are also not perfect but are working toward being more loving and Christ like.

 

[Buntaro]

Compman said,

"... if we truely believe what our religion teaches we will want to share it with others."

But how? Nobody thinks that, if asked, sharing one's religious ideas is a bad idea. Nobody.

The issue here is proselytizing, pure and simple. Initiating unsolicited religious discussions with strangers on the street, etc.

Mars Man said,

"I kind of feel that missonaries should apply the 'we won't call you, please call us' rule of thumb."

--> Which is something proselytizers will not respect. This is why we non-Christians will continue to point out the inappropriateness of the proselytizers, and this thread continues and continues.

The issue is not Mormonism as a cult.

The issue is not the sincerity of Christians in their belief.

The issue is proselytizing.

"watching people happily embrace other beliefs and heading to eternal suffering would not be unlike watching a toddler happily trying to put scissors into an electrical socket. It is saving people from certain suffering, and giving them the gift of eternal life."

--> It is against such an idea we must defend ourselves, and defend ourselves we will.

 

[Riyko]

I cannot answer for others and I think there can be many answers as to why someone would want to be a missionary in Japan.

My AP European History teacher went on his mission to Japan just for the sole fact that he could go to the country he wanted to and have it paid for by the Mormon church (with airfare and a place to stay, the mormon missionaries have to bring their own money to spend).

 

[Compman]

Buntaro wrote:
But how? Nobody thinks that, if asked, sharing one's religious ideas is a bad idea. Nobody. "

I wrote:
"... if we truely believe what our religion teaches we will want to share it with others."
I was answering Mycernius who said, "If you loved Japan and its way of life, why do you wish to change it? "

 

[kiyose]

Anyone who teach bible in our church English Class?

"Need English brother/sister Help to our church English class"
at our church. (protestant evangelical, """Biblical and Fundamental!!!")
Fuchu, Tokyo, Japan: sunday PM1:00-2:00
*sorry, but for volunteer (can pay train and obento fee)
------------------------
Hello! everybody.
Can I introduce myself?
I am "real" Japanese and live in Tokyo,
and trying to preach gospel in this "No christian" country.
If Christ tell you and have any interest. please contact me.
Thank you and sorry if I distrubed your discussion.
mail to :[email protected]
Jeremiah Kiyose ( native Japanese)

 

[Mars Man]

Greetings there kiyose san, and WELCOME to the forum !! Christian or not, I hope you do stick around and post when and where you feel like it.

We no longer have any area for discussing religious topics in themselves, unfortunately, but as for the religions' activities or effects in Japan, or how they bear within Japanese society--history, culture, rub-offs, etc.--we do have this sub-fora.

Anyway, it might be good to give an introduction of yourself in the Member's Introductions area--if, that is, you really intend to be an active member on Jref. I hope you do join in with us all !! Looking forward to seeing you 'round !! mata ne !! MM