Missionaries in Japan

[Buntaro]

Tsuyoiko-san! Ma koto ni, arigatou.

The thing I like about karma and reincarnation is that (to me) they absolute, perfect, logical sense. I can find no flaw in the concepts whatsoever.

Would you like to play Devil's Advocate? What is it about these two things that you find non-logical?

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Buntaro-sama! O-genki desu ka?

You misunderstand me! It's not that I find them non-logical, just that I haven't found a logical explanation myself. I'm lazy, so if you already have one I would rather look at that than try to find my own! If I like yours then I have saved myself some work!

 

[Mars Man]

hello there people !! Nice to hear from you all again. A lot went down over those 4, mostly rainy days. Pictures? O.k, you're on--just as soon as I can figure out how and where to post them.

I read through everything up to now and got some good information. There are a few things that I'm not so personally sure of, but cannot say anything about--they are not things that one can do research on in scientific journals.

Anyway, for now. . .I'm back on the line.

ps. I know nothing at all about. . . uh oh, what was it, Theolosophy? Maybe some insight there could help.

 

[Buntaro]

Tsuyoiko-sama! Shimpai itadaite, arigatou.

You said,

"... I haven't found a logical explanation myself. I'm lazy...."

--> It has been said that, for those who believe, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not believe, no explanation is enough.

Sorry, but I don't try to convince people of religious ideas.

By the way, I have been a member of the Reincarnation Forum for some time. Come join us there. (My user-name there is also Buntaro.) It is a great bunch of people, and you will enjoy the discussions.

http://www.childpastlives.org/vBulletin/

 

[Buntaro]

Mars Man,

You asked about Theosophy. Here is some info on the American section of the organization:

http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/faqs/index.html

 

[Tsuyoiko]

By the way, I have been a member of the Reincarnation Forum for some time. Come join us there. (My user-name there is also Buntaro.) It is a great bunch of people, and you will enjoy the discussions.

http://www.childpastlives.org/vBulletin/

Thanks Buntaro, I will check it out. I am enjoying this forum, and it is my first one, so I was thinking of joining some others.

 

[Mars Man]

Mars Man,

You asked about Theosophy. Here is some info on the American section of the organization:

http://www.theosophical.org/theosophy/faqs/index.html

Buntaro sama, thanks a lot there !! I'll check it out.

I appreciate your position on not trying to 'push', so to speak, religious ideas on others. That's what the missionaries more than often do--some may not be so 'pushy' per se, but use reasoning techniques. We all here are discussing many aspects of religious related thinking, and that is a very healthy thing, I, for one, feel.

I'll check out that site and learn more about what is going down there. Thanks again !! From red dust I came, to red dust I hope to go. . . though the price will be very, very steep!

 

[Buntaro]

Mars Man,

I feel the satisfaction of a job well done. Don't touch my moustache!

 

[jchamploo]

Has anyone met a missionary that is not jehova witness or mormon?

I have to argue about the Jehova witness & mormon being "Christian"

hmm. . . root of the word = Christ
To be a Christian, it means that you are a follower of Christ which means you follow his teachings.

Jehova Witness and Mormon = legalism & distortion of what the cannonical bible says. They are considered heretical.

Why should you what to smash people you don't know anything about anyway? It's kinda like telling a gaijin that they are annoying because you don't understand the language they are speaking.

And what about the Japanese Christians? those who live in the cultre and appreciate the Japanese culture. . . . are they too mutilating the Japanese lifestyle? culture? uniqueness? There are no other cultures like the Japanese culture. . . can that be argued? Why would you want to be like America? not a very good role model. . . . therefore i think that mormons and jehova witnesses are in the wrong to try to change the japanese culture into a western culture, but Christianity isn't a western idea, and it is not a western "thing". True missionaries don't want to change the Japanese culture. . . they want to perserve it and appreciate it.

I would suggest not "smashing" missionaries until you have met more of them that aren't on the streets and that aren't jehova witness or mormon.

☝ ~Jchamploo

 

[Indiana Gardener]

I would like to address the 4th option from the top in the poll:
"They are naive, aggresive and self righteous."

If any "missionarires" are behaving this was they are not following Christ in His example and are likely false prophets. Christ never forced people to listen to His teachings. He went to places, and people followed and listened. He didn't chase them down and hand them literature.

People have free-will. It's the greatest gift that God created us with. In fact, it's why He created us. Angels were made for whorship. God desired a relationship with a being that chose Him. Missionaries should not be "aggresive" or pushy. Rather, respect people's free will. Live amongst them as Christ lived. Representing Christ to them. Ministering to them in times of need, when the time is right, or of they ask, but not forcing anything on them.

Anyone who is "self righteous" is not of God. Isaiah 64:6 says that our (all people's) righteousness is as filthy rags before God. It's only by His grace and His righteousness that we are made clean in His sight. Romans 3:23 states, "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God". Yes, even Christians (myslef included) are sinners. The only difference is, Christians have called upon the Lord for salvation. Romans 10:13, "For whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved."

I'm not a missionary, but I do know missionaries in Japan. The way to reach the people is not by being pushy and a better-than-thou. But like I stated above by living among the people. They have no desire to westernize the culture either. Only tell the people about God and His love for them. And demonstrate that love and kindness to the people there.

There are jehova witnesses and mormons (not to be confused with actual Christians) here too. They are pushy... which brings me back to my second paragraph.

 

[PsychoticNess]

I am new to your forums, Long time reader first-time poster. I just wanted to add my two cents.​

I am a Christian, born again since high school. But long before high school even, I was enthralled with Japanese culture. Everything about Japan enthralled me, and I wanted to study it, so I read. I read many books and did tons of online research about Japan and found out its good and bad. Yet, it still appealed to me so. So after becoming a Christian, I knew God was calling me to mission over there. I've done missions before, in some pretty torn down parts of Mexico, streets of Los Angeles, CA, downtown parts of Riverside, CA and I can say that missioning does not mean pushing and forcing religion down people's throat. I will stand here and say, from my own view, that I think that is the wrong way to a mission. Missioning should be a simple process where you go to the place, and all you do is love. Love. Show people's Christ's love through action. You don't need to throw bibles at people, hassle people to death, travelling through neighbourhoods trying to get everyone to hear you. All you need to do is show people's christ's love and live in faith. When people that don't know christ see your love, your faith: they will wonder. And then, if they want to hear you tell them about the glory of Christ.​

Missioning to people isn't a contest to see how many people you convert. One could mission for his entire life in Japan, say 50 years. If he only turned one person, saved one soul in Japan, then it was worth it. Jesus never forced people to believe him. Neither should we. Just demonstrate how wonderful Christ is, and people will naturally want him. Free will is what makes us human. Free will is the gift God gave us, but I digress. I don't mean to come onto here preaching a storm up. I want to clarify and explain what missioning is about. It isn't about stopping people in the street, harassing them or what-not. It's simply about showing god's love.​

 

[Mycernius]

I think the point about missionaires of any religion is not so much the forcing it down people throats, it is more the almost superiour attitude taken by them. I will clarify. What make you, a missionary, think that people ,who are quite happy in their own religion, will want to change to yours. Christianity is no more noble or correct than Shinto . You should be happy and comfortable in your own religion and accept that people are happy and content in theirs

Missioning to people isn't a contest to see how many people you convert. One could mission for his entire life in Japan, say 50 years. If he only turned one person, saved one soul in japan then it was worth it.

How do you know his 'soul' has been saved? In your teachings yes, but you are no more correct about the afterlife than other religions. For all you know Islam or Shinto or Judaism is correct. Your 'saving' of a soul could banish then to whatever netherworld they believe in. Ever thought if God exists, something I firmly do not believe in, it will want you just to be happy and content and to live your life in an honest and good way and worship in what everway you feel is right. Humans have made the boundries of religion, not God(s). If they exist, why create more than one religion?

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Some JWs knocked on my door on Saturday at 10:15. Most people in my street are either asleep or still in their jim-jams at 10:15 on a Saturday morning. Does anyone else think it's a bit rude to knock on doors so early on a weekend?

Pointless comment, but it bugged me a bit.

 

[Kinsao]

Someone called at my house at 9.00 on Saturday morning. 9.00!!! What kind of unearthly hour is that?!?!? It wasn't anyone missioning, though...

*cough-topic-cough*... I'm sorry, I haven't read all of this thread, just the last few posts because it was popped up again and I noticed it...

Christianity is no more noble or correct than Shinto.

Ah, but the point is, anyone belonging to a religion does think that their religion is more 'correct' than other religions, otherwise they wouldn't belong to it.

But I agree with... -->

missioning does not mean pushing and forcing religion down people's throat

I think mainly it is the "forcing religion down people's throat" attitude that gets people's backs up.

Show people's Christ's love through action.

I for one think that whatever religion (or none) that they are already, they are likely to get a better impression of Christianity through that behaviour than by being woken up on a Saturday morning to be talked at!

 

[Mycernius]

Your both layabouts. I'm up and usually finished my shopping by 9:00 on Saturdays. I did get stop by a JW once in the town one saturday morning. Let's put it this way, I don't think he will try and convert me again, or possibly see the Bible in the same light.

Jehova Witness and Mormon = legalism & distortion of what the cannonical bible says. They are considered heretical.

Just noticed this comment. That is what the Catholic Chruch say about anyone who isn't catholic.

 

[PsychoticNess]

I think the point about missionaires of any religion is not so much the forcing it down people throats, it is more the almost superiour attitude taken by them. I will clarify. What make you, a missionary, think that people ,who are quite happy in their own religion, will want to change to yours. Christianity is no more noble or correct than Shinto. You should be happy and comfortable in your own religion and accept that people are happy and content in theirs
How do you know his 'soul' has been saved? In your teachings yes, but you are no more correct about the afterlife than other religions. For all you know Islam or Shinto or Judaism is correct. Your 'saving' of a soul could banish then to whatever netherworld they believe in. Ever thought if God exists, something I firmly do not believe in, it will want you just to be happy and content and to live your life in an honest and good way and worship in what everway you feel is right. Humans have made the boundries of religion, not God(s). If they exist, why create more than one religion?

I could sit here and argue the existance of a God and whatnot, but that's not what this thread is for. I'm simply clarifying how missioning should be done. I firmly believe in my religion, it isn't a chore, it is amazing. If you had something amazing that people didn't know about naturally wouldn't you want to share it with them? That's all I'm saying.

 

[Buntaro]

"If you had something amazing that people didn't know about naturally wouldn't you want to share it with them?"

--> Not if I did it with disrespect. The key issue is respect. Christian proselytizers who do not understand this do more damage than good.

 

[Reiku]

I didn't vote, because there wasn't an option that fit my opinion...

...missionaries in Japan?

Light 'em on fire.

I don't care what anybody's god says, no one should be trying to force their beliefs on others.

Set up a church, let them come in if they are curious--explain your faith to them if they come in...

...but never try to force them. If they leave, don't follow, if they dissagree, let them go, and if no one comes to you--deal with it.

Granted, some missionaries actually do behave that way, they set up a mission and stay there, only giving their vews to those who come seeking them--but far too many are agressive, offensive, soul-hunters. It's nothing less than a spiritual mugging:

An attack on your will and your mind, in an attempt to rob you of your beliefs and your soul.

Maybe it's just me, but I think trying to take someone's soul is worse than trying to take their life.

Light 'em on fire, it's self defense.



...but come to think of it, those are my beliefs--and I just hit you guys pretty hard over the head with them didn't I?

>flees from angry, torch-weilding mob<

I meant every wooooooooooooooooord!

>vanishes over the horizon<

 

[PsychoticNess]

"If you had something amazing that people didn't know about naturally wouldn't you want to share it with them?"
--> Not if I did it with disrespect. The key issue is respect. Christian proselytizers who do not understand this do more damage than good.

Thus is exactly how I said missionaries should act, with respect.
and reiku, I respect your opinion, and believe you're right (albeit the lighting on fire part). Also how I think missionaries should act. Not being aggresive, but demonstrating how they live... with a love from God so that people are interested and ask them.
Question: I read a story about a missionary in Japan walking with a huge wooden cross to get people's attention. Now, people came to him, and he told them why, how it was for Christ, who Jesus was... but never forced them too. What do you think about this? I think it'd a great idea that allows people the freedom to not indulge if they don't want to. Give me your opinions...please

 

[Tsuyoiko]

Question: I read a story about a missionary in Japan walking with a huge wooden cross to get people's attention. Now, people came to him, and he told them why, how it was for Christ, who Jesus was... but never forced them too. What do you think about this? I think it'd a great idea that allows people the freedom to not indulge if they don't want to. Give me your opinions...please

That's a great story - it demonstrates his relationship with Christ, as well as being a good ice breaker.

 

[Mycernius]

But the whole point of being a missionary IS to force your beliefs on another culture. It doesn't matter if it is done with respect or aggressively. The whole idea is to convert people to your view of religion. Why should you try to change a cultural view of the afterlife and redemption that has managed to serve the Japanese for over 2000 years? Why can't you be happy with Jesus and let the Japanese be happy with their Gods? Is your God that vain, that it requires all people to follow it?

Question: I read a story about a missionary in Japan walking with a huge wooden cross to get people's attention. Now, people came to him, and he told them why, how it was for Christ, who Jesus was... but never forced them too. What do you think about this? I think it'd a great idea that allows people the freedom to not indulge if they don't want to. Give me your opinions...please

It is the same with JWs when they offer you a piece of paper with Utopia on it. Ask the question and then with the proselytizing. All it is is another hook to try to convert them, which is, as I have mentioned before, the primary reason for a missionary.

 

[Revenant]

Why should you try to change a cultural view of the afterlife and redemption that has managed to serve the Japanese for over 2000 years? Why can't you be happy with Jesus and let the Japanese be happy with their Gods?

The answer seems pretty straight forward. To compassionate monotheists holding strong convictions, watching people happily embrace other beliefs and heading to eternal suffering would not be unlike watching a toddler happily trying to put scissors into an electrical socket. It is saving people from certain suffering, and giving them the gift of eternal life.

 

[Mycernius]

The answer seems pretty straight forward. To compassionate monotheists holding strong convictions, watching people happily embrace other beliefs and heading to eternal suffering would not be unlike watching a toddler happily trying to put scissors into an electrical socket. It is saving people from certain suffering, and giving them the gift of eternal life.

If you put it that way, I can understand. Still bugs the hell out of me though.

 

[Buntaro]

" ... watching people happily embrace other beliefs and heading to eternal suffering ...."

--> Ah, but this is the crux of the issue, isn't it? Christians say that, just because I follow Buddhist teachings I am digging myself a one-way hole to Hell, not matter how purely I lead my life. (I disagree....)

My response is: The Christians had better be right, because if they are wrong (and they are wrong, in my opinion) then they are earning themselves a certain amount of time in the very Hell they are warning us about.

The above quote needs to be corrected: " ... watching Christians condemn other religions and, instead, finding themselves heading to eternal suffering ...."

The funny thing is, I am very willing to let Christians be Christians. (I believe that they are on their Path, and I am on mine. We will all get to Heaven, even though we take different Paths.) Unfortunately, they will not return the favor.

 

[PsychoticNess]

" ... watching people happily embrace other beliefs and heading to eternal suffering ...."
--> Ah, but this is the crux of the issue, isn't it? Christians say that, just because I follow Buddhist teachings I am digging myself a one-way hole to Hell, not matter how purely I lead my life. (I disagree....)
My response is: The Christians had better be right, because if they are wrong (and they are wrong, in my opinion) then they are earning themselves a certain amount of time in the very Hell they are warning us about.
The above quote needs to be corrected: " ... watching Christians condemn other religions and, instead, finding themselves heading to eternal suffering ...."
The funny thing is, I am very willing to let Christians be Christians. (I believe that they are on their Path, and I am on mine. We will all get to Heaven, even though we take different Paths.) Unfortunately, they will not return the favor.

Ok, point taken, but by missioning we're not forcing it on anyone. All we're doing is going to new places, and seeing if anyone wants to be a christian with us. We're not holding huge ralleys to force people to change, we're showing people the glory of our God, of Christ, and what blessings knowing Christ can give them in their life. It isn't forcing anyone to choose, it's showing them their options and having them choose.