Missionaries in Japan

[Fantt]

The really sad thing is that the basic teachings of Jesus Christ are all about humility and being meek and turing the other cheek. I've always imagined Jesus weeping in heaven over the hundreds of thousands killed in his name.

 

[bossel]

The source was the book, "We Don't Die", by Martin and Romanowski, published by Berkley Books, 1988. There is a bibliography in the back of the book, in case there is a need to see where they got that quote from.

Thanks for the source! I googled for it, & if it's the thingy about "George Anderson's Conversations With the Other Side" I'll probably refrain from having a closer look at it.

I haven't found a (trustworthy) overall number for inquisition victims yet, but one for the time between 1540 & 1700 in the Iberian peninsula: 44000 cases, but "only" 775 executions (mostly for heresy, none for sorcery).

Recent estimates for witchhunts put the victim numbers between 50,000 & 100,000. But witchhunts were generally not related to the Inquisition.

 

[Hakuen]

Japanese aren't interested in western religion because it has such a narrow scope--- it is not very flexable. Buddhism is, and this is why Buddhism is becoming the religion of choice these days--- it is very humanitarian.

 

[Shooter452]

Sorry, but I have to say this. If I offend, sorry.

But Mormons are THE SINGLE MOST ANNOYING people when out and about on their missionary cattle quests for new followers.

I was born Catholic, I will die Catholic. I love God, despise my religion. But it suits me.

Anyway.

Ant

Ditto, pal. But I don't wanna string 'em up just because they are annoying A__ H___s. Everyone has their POV, and ya gotta make allowences for them.

I have stumbled over Christian congregations on Okinawa , but they kept their out-of-the-way places. The culture is obviously non-Chrisitian. It is an uphill fight to convert the locals, and most missionaries I have met are not really equipped for the job. That is why Christianity has developed a solid foot hold in Japan, but not much more than that.

It is amusing that Clavel provides a dual view of early Christian missionaries. The SJ's adapt to the culture with tolerance and are almost accepted by the Japanese. The Franciscan's show up with less enlightened but fiercely zealous conviction and the people they are trying to convert detest or fear them.

I know that all Christians are charged with the mission to go out and spread the Gospel, but I went into a different line of work.

Sorry, I gave at the Chapel.

 

[jet_dee]

I'm here with a partner from the UK doing work in a hospital, and one night when we were taken round to dinner at a doctor's house, we encountered two missionaries, Mormons. I had previously met two other Mormon missionaries from the same team while walking in Kamitori. I was quite surprised to have seen even one, to be honest. I must admit, they were very nice guys, and the ones at the dinner didn't once speak of religion to any of us (although they had met the lady of the household by going door to door, she didn't want to convert but since she loved speaking English she dragged them round for dinner anyway!).

But yeah, I want to put my name down on the anti-missionary list. I don't think anyone should be plied with other's opinions on ways to live your life, but rather should be allowed to make the choice themselves. A fair way of promoting your religion should be more passive. Advertising works well, it's everywhere, but in most cases (magazines, billboards, etc.) you're free to ignore, or research further in pursuit of knowledge. Unless you happen to be Homer Simpson (recalling the billboard advertising the Krusty Clown School). Japanese people have it great in being born into a culture where religion is actually something you can choose to believe or ignore, and not be punished for either. Buddhism and Shinto allow you to choose other faiths in addition if you so please, they don't impose that any other way is wrong (I'd like to refer to the points made about Christianity being used as propoganda for war throughout history, or the points about non-believers in Islam being called infidels).

Hehe, anyone see the episode of South Park where they discover the planet of Marklar? "Starvin' Marvin in Space!" in which the Christian Broadcasting Channel raises a few trillion dollars in order to make it to Marklar and convert them all?

 

[Shooter452]

I don't watch South Park, jet, but it sounds like a hoot.

Looking at it from their point of view, the missionaries are doing it for "your on good." Yeeeeeeech! Everytime I hear that bilge "for your own good" I get nauseus, but whose to say?

Still, I would rather be tolerant than nail them to cross bars. They did that once upon a time, I think even in feudal Japan. The Japanese are strong enough to ignore them...or they aren't.

primum non nocere

 

[goofy2feet]

I only read the last page of this thread, as it's now 5 pages long, but anyway I found the posts on this page most heartening; here-here to Smig and his comments on the useless activities of the brain-washed when they come over to Japan. Religion is just a part of your culture. English people don't come to Japan and tell them to stop acting like monkeys and eat properly with knives and forks. We come and we enjoy and revel in the differences.

I had a fun conversation last night with some muslim friends (I am fairly irreligious but brought up christian) talking about the different stories of the end of the world in the Quran and Bible. We were laughing and enjoying it. There was no sense of threat that we believed different things. Anyway, everyone's already argued this point out really well, but I just wanted to put my tuppence-worth in.

http://www.bdbtjapan.com

 

[Hoyu]

Here's an interesting twist on the topic of this thread. I am a Caucasian American Buddhist Missionary in Hawaii. As a missionary my goal is to have as many Westerners as possible hear the Buddha's name at least once. Namu Amida Butsu!

In Gassho,
Rev. Hoyu

 

[nova_usagi]

Sorry, but I have to say this. If I offend, sorry.

But Mormons are THE SINGLE MOST ANNOYING people when out and about on their missionary cattle quests for new followers.

I was going to work the other day, and three of them came up to me and asked if I wanted to learn the will of God. I said no, but the will of my employer is that I get into work, now. Then they asked if they could come back. I said no. Then they asked if they could have my mobile number, I said not a chance in hell. THEN, they asked why not.

I told them this...

I was born Catholic, I will die Catholic. I love God, despise my religion. But it suits me.

Anyway.

Ant

That's great! I'm Roman Catholic too... When I was in Kitami, I ran into some missionaries on bikes. They stick out like a sore thumb. White shirt, tie, black pants, a dumb name tag, and a helmet. No one wears a helmet when riding a bike unless they're one of those guys.

They started to talk to me, asking me if I was Christian. I told them that I was Roman Catholic and they were like, "Oh, never mind then." I was with another exchange student at the time and they pissed him off by asking him if he was Swedish (because he's Norwegian) and then they two missionary guys started to hit on me. I was 17 at the time and the two guys on bikes were 19 and 21. It was horrible.

I asked them how it was going and if they were productive... They hadn't converted anyone and admitted to just riding around most of the time. They told me that they weren't supposed to be talking with me because I was American and Christian, but they were bored. Apparently all they did was ride around on bikes and hand out pamphlets. They said it was nice to travel though.

I think that most of them are wasting their time... Mormons are productive in the United States (it's like a 4% growth rate yearly), but that's because they're good at converting new and unchurched families that move into their neighborhood. Missionary work is something that the youths have to do. It's like an initiation of some sort. They know that they have little chance of converting, but they do it because they're supposed to try. I personally think that it's nice that their kids can travel some, but it's a bit of a waste of money, time, and effort.

 

[Clawn]

I am a Christian, I'm not in to specifying my religion, but I am a Christian. As any Christian should know, the Bible makes a clear statement that any and all who don't believe in/worship God WILL go to Hell. Personally, I don't want to go to Heaven and find only a small amount of Asian people. I LIKE ASIAN PEOPLE!!! Ahem...a lot of my friends are Asian, and I wouldn't want to see them go to Hell. That's why I actually plan on going to foreign countries in the near future and spreading God's word. See you then!

 

[Buntaro]

"The Bible makes a clear statement that any and all who don't believe in/worship God WILL go to Hell."

--> That is exactly why I do not believe in the Bible.

 

[Mycernius]

There appears to be a lot of Mormon bashing on this thread. I went to school with a mormon and didn't know he was until much later in life. At no point did he mention his religion. I have met, spoken and had some quite interesting debates with mormons. Actually told one than their founder could have suffered a psychocotic episode when the angel Moroni appeared before him. He took it in and could see how that would seem to a non-believer. He was Swedish and had grown up as a mormon and was friendly and open. I have had discussions with English mormons about the origin of the Bible. In fact it was one of them told me that they use the King James Bible. The only time I have had problems with a mormon is when two American mormons knocked on my door. When I put my point of view across (I am a non-beliver, if you are wondering. Slight leaning towards Buddhism) they tried to argue with the heaven, hell thread. Told them if I don't belive in God then logically I don't believe in the devil. Left them flustered and they left. Jehovahs seem to be a different matter. Used to work with one and he could be a real pain in the butt. He got so bad that one day my boss and I told him that if we painted him red and stuck horns on him he would look like the devil. Didn't speak to us for about three months (He had a narrow face with a goatee beard and 'tache).
As for missionaries, in some cases they do good for the countries that they are in. Helping the poor and desperate. Unfortunatly some take advantage of these people in their time of trouble and will try to convert them. In the past missionaries have done good things, but also some very bad things. Remember the Natives in South and North America.
As for the heaven and hell thing in the Bible. Hell is a Christian invention. The Old testament is Jewish in origin and Jews do not have a hell. It was one of God's most trusted angels that spoke to him in Job, and that Angels name was Satan.
The problem with discussing religion is that it will annoy a lot of people, so you normally try to avoid it. It is something people get passionate about, believers and non-believers alike.

 

[TwistedMac]

the Bible makes a clear statement that any and all who don't believe in/worship God WILL go to Hell.

But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother [ Some manuscripts brother without cause] will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, ﾂ'Raca, [ An Aramaic term of contempt] ' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, ﾂ'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.

And why would you follow something that is that quick to judge?
to hell with it all I say.. hypocritical load of hogwash!

And I'll see all you atheists when we're boiling in our own urine, unable to speak because of all the bees in our mouthes. It'll be a jolly good time.

Am I the only one that pictures `Hell as a place where there are hot beaches, beachparties and naked females playing beachvolley?

In contrast, when I think of heaven I think of old people feeding pidgeons. and pidgeon poop eeeeverywhere!

 

[Mycernius]

And why would you follow something that is that quick to judge?
to hell with it all I say.. hypocritical load of hogwash!

And I'll see all you atheists when we're boiling in our own urine, unable to speak because of all the bees in our mouthes. It'll be a jolly good time.

Am I the only one that pictures `Hell as a place where there are hot beaches, beachparties and naked females playing beachvolley?

In contrast, when I think of heaven I think of old people feeding pidgeons. and pidgeon poop eeeeverywhere!

I think Issac Asimov said that his idea of Hell was the Christian idea of Heaven, or something similar. Will have to check it up. If hell exists that's where I'm going, see you there TwistedMac. :atsui:

 

[tristasusen]

Its kinda sad how most of you are just bashing people and their religion. You should treat people the way you want to be treated.

I myself am a mormon, and let me tell you that missionaries are young people 19-22 years old. They like to hang out with their friends, they have lives just like you. So bashing them is just sad. These are modern day missionaries, They arent killing people, they are just trying to teach and help people. I know missionaries that served a mission in Japan, and they have said that they had a wonderful time. I support the missionaries. They arent doing nothing wrong. They help the community and the people. They arent forcing people to join their religion, People just by their own free will.

Alot of people dont know about Mormons. Mormons are christians, Mormons believe in the bible and Jesus Christ. Someone said that people should go to Utah and pass out Anti-Mormon pamphlets, well they do. I live by NYC and I see Anti-Mormon pamphlets all the time, Our church always get mail filled with books and stuffs agaisnt mormons.

Im a teen too just like you. I like to hang out with my friends. I love to cosplay and I love everything about Japan. I can speak japanese, but whenever someone find out Im a mormon; their view totally change about me. Instead of think of me as a Person, I become a "Super Religious Freak". Instead of calling me by my name, they call me Mormon Boy. Its kinda sad.

 

[Buntaro]

tristasusen,

Thank you for your post. It sounds like you are interested in helping people of different religions get along with one another. I feel the same way. I hope that all of us can learn to appreciate the value that each of our religions brings to our lives.

Whenever I find out that someone is a Mormon, my first, gut-level reaction is that I do not want to talk to that person. But I always fight my way through that, and try to get a pleasant discussion going. For me, it is always fun to hear about how someone's religion is a positive part of their life. (Usually a Mormon will assume that I want to be a Mormon because of my openess, and believe me, I do not want to be a Mormon.)

Which brings me to the obvious question: Why do you think that people are reacting to Mormonism in such a negative way?

You said,

"...whenever someone finds out I'm a mormon; their view totally changes about me."

It you take the time to find our why they feel this way, I believe that you will be well on your way to working together with the rest of us in making this a better world.

You said,

"They aren't doing [anything] wrong."

You need to look at how other people see Mormons. (Do you think it is possible that they do things that people perceive as bad?) Otherwise, the Mormon-bashing will keep on happening forever.

This is an opportunity to see yourself as others see you. I hope you take advantage of the opportunity.

"Instead of think of me as a Person, I become a "Super Religious Freak".

Yes, I can understand why this offends you. I would be offended too. Sharing one's religion should be a positive experience, but for you and me and many other people in this world, it is not. But this is the cold, hard truth of the matter: They don't hate you simply because it is fun. There are reasons why people think this way. I hope you become curious as to why.

 

[tristasusen]

Yes, I agree Buntaro. I try not to think about peoples religion or their beliefs, when I meet them. I try to see if they are a good person or if I relate them, but by no means will I hates them.

I think that most people dont like mormons or their views because of rumors. Of course their are those stupid mormon that act all stupid and try to be perfect, but most of us arent like that. There are tons of rumors out there but none of them are true. For example, someone in the thread said that mormons dont believe in the Bible, well we do. Even if Mormonism isnt real, and what happened to Joseph Smith isnt real, (Which I strongly believe is real) Its has made many people happy. My family is happy, and so are the other mormons families around me. Its as also made me a good person. I dont go around bashing other people and their religions, I dont steal and I follow christ. and If people cant see past that, then screw them.

 

[Buntaro]

tristasusen,

"I dont steal and I follow christ. and If people cant see past that, then screw them."

--> You and I are separated by a hugh chasm, an abyss. I am always ready to reach out and make a bridge across that abyss. I hope that someday you will be ready too.

 

[Mycernius]

If people are happy in their religion, I can see no wrong in that. What most people are saying on this thread is that some people push their beliefs on to you. Just respect other peoples beliefs. The only time we find out if we are truely right is when we die, until then no-one is 100% sure.

 

[Shooter452]

Which brings us back to Mormon bashing...

Some missionaries are more forceful than others. The LDS missionaries tend to be at the upper tolerance end for that scale. Where I live, it is them and the Watchtower gang from the local JW hall who beat on your doors and want to fill up your idle Saturdays with their beliefs.

I understand that every Christian--and for all I know, other faiths too--are commanded by Scripture to preach the Gospels to all the world. I just wish that they would do it to somebody else.

 

[Mycernius]

We haven't had any come to our door for ages. Two reason for this I think:
1- We have mormons living in our street and they protect us from the door kind
2- I pinched the Bible off the last JW we had so he couldn't quote or show passages from his book. I think we have been blacklisted by them. Hope it lasts.

BTW my brother has a great way of dealing with JW's. He says he doesn't want to go to Uttoxeter (A town in Staffordshire) This confuses then and they leave

 

[Shooter452]

BTW my brother has a great way of dealing with JW's. He says he doesn't want to go to Uttoxeter (A town in Staffordshire) This confuses then and they leave

I guess it would...it certainly confuses me!

Must be a local joke that out-of-towners like me would never catch.

 

[saga]

As any Christian should know, the Bible makes a clear statement that any and all who don't believe in/worship God WILL go to Hell.

Can you tell me the chapter/verse where it says that? - I'm trying to find it.

Does it say "believe in God or go to Hell", or does it say "be a Christian or go to Hell"? Many people believe in God who are not Christians.

Where is Hell, and what exactly does Hell mean?

 

[gokarosama]

The most insidious thing about many missionaries (in Japan and elsewhere) is the tendency to sugarcoat or deflect their true purpose at the beginning of their spiel--for example, to teach Mormonism under the auspices of an "English Language School", a phenomenon all-too-common here.

I have known many missionaries who were fantastic people. I respect many of them--usually the ones carrying a hammer or otherwise building up a community with practical effort, rather than biking from door to door. Still, I've never met a Mormon I didn't think was a really swell person. Until, of course, the proselytizing begins.

 

[gokarosama]

As for Clawn's post above, I don't see why anyone even bothers addressing it.