Jpop VS Jrock... Split it?

[Davey]

Okay, around a week ago, I posted an idea in the forum side feedback section, here is the message:

That there will come a special Jrock section! so you have jpop and Jrock!
Because when I want to post something in the Jpop section it always get overshadowed by Jrock threads, and the amount of Jrock treads take care that there is NO attention for my thread! I mean there are lot of people who like Jpop music but DISLIKE J-rock music, including this OVERSIZED pictures there are being post... ahum now there is no change for my DTC or Pink lady or something like that because mister Hyde, and Miyavi etc are all over the place...
I am sure that Many people agree with me that a spil up from Jpop and Jrock would be a good idea, at least thats what I hope!!!
Jpop is about Jpop.. Where is the jpop?
(let's ask things one by one haha )

maybe someone knows a better idea than I have? Jpop get the most posts a day than any other part of this website, but it is not categorized in other subs, such as maybe jpop section Jrock section, band section. Jpop deserves a bigger place, and I think this can be done by splitting up the Jpop into Jpop and Jrock.

So please share your opinion!

 

[-rika- shinya`]

i've been thinking about that for awhile..i hope it could be split as well ^^; and i think it'd be fairer to fans of jpop / jrock ☝

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

Yeah, I think there needs to be a separation. One, it feels wrong to have threads for bands like Dir en grey in a section with the word "pop" in the title. Two, J-Pop fans need a haven just as much as J-Rock fans. I personally like J-Pop as well as J-Rock (but am very picky about the J-Pop I listen to).
But here's a problem, a lot of people don't agree on what is "Pop" and what is "Rock" so artists that shouldn't be in one section are gonna get thrown in just 'cause no one knows what to do with them. Splitting it up will help in some ways but not in others. If there was a way to clearly mark what is Pop and what is Rock then it'd be totally fine but there isn't. However, even with this serious glitch, I think there needs to be separate sections.

 

[lastmagi]

I think Hyde's last point is a valid one. Some people have considered Gackt "Pop" even though he is clearly aimed at more rock music. Obviously there are different standards in definition, and that it's a relative measure perhaps based on one's own familiarity of Japanese genres. I have little to suggest as far as that goes, only that I suspect most people are into a certain subset of jrock that is slightly easier to categorize.

Also, I'd add that to dichotomize such a broad area into two parts is, if not completely arbitrary as Hyde indicated, then certainly reflective of the oversimplifying assumptions of many pop/rock fans. By making the sections into "pop" and "rock" as if they were totally opposites, we leave out room for other genres. I have always assumed that Japanese music would enhance our appreciation for different music styles (for instance, different bands like to try out radically different styles within their own music), but as I've looked on more and more, I suppose I've been wrong. "Rock" is just one aspect of a wide range of other kinds of music. I would suggest that to reflect that we make JRock (or VK) a subcategory within a J-Music section, as JRock definitely gets the most attention by posters. An alternative would be to make J-Rock and J-Pop subcategories within a J-Music section, and let people and thread-starters decide how they want to split it up themselves.

For sure, though, J-Rock itself, or at least VK, needs a section of its own, in consideration of the amount of threads and posts made. Just look at the title of each of the following threads that have exceeded 1,000 posts so far:

"Dir En Grey! the best of the best!" - 1,157

"A poll for the prettiest Jrockers!" - 4,149 (hardly a surprise)

"Lareine" - 1,274

"MUCC please" - 1,603

"Gazette" - 1,886

"+D'espairsRay+" - 1,904

"J-rock looks that make you laugh" - 1,186

"miyavi, anyone?" - 2,951

...Of course, if we were to take into account post count alone, we'd also have to deal the number of threads that have to do with how gorgeous those cute lil' Japanese artists are.

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

Thank you for making the Gackt point, he was very much who I was referring to but I didn't want to come out and say it. As well as L'Arc~en~Ciel...somehow they keep getting glumped into the Pop category.
I think the sub-category idea is a good one. I don't like the fact that this section currently holds the word "Pop" only, it gives a false impression as to what the thread is about. It's for ALL forms of J-Music not just Pop. So yeah, very good idea, I think we should use it. :haihai:

 

[Davey]

Well one thing is sure, something should change ... and I also think that making a J-music area, and within that area a Jrock section, and maybe a couple of other sections???

 

[Dollporn]

I agree much with the second thing lastmagi sais, there is so much in between and stuff.
But I think we would just end up not agreeing in what comes where and posts would be thrown back and forth between two forums.
It's true about the diffeculty of categorizing. What's pop and what¨s rock?
Also what's a visual band and what isn¨t because they change all the time, and there are many more categories than just VK and non-visual bands.
If we want the title to be more true to the contents of the forum it should probably be renamed "j-music" or something.
I understand the problem, but finding a solution seems pretty hard...

 

[Davey]

I understand the problem, but finding a solution seems pretty hard...

hard, but not impossible. we are smart people!!

 

[despairsrayfan~polly]

yea that would be a good idea. HAve jrock and jpop seperate.

 

[Dollporn]

I guess not. But I don't think splitting it in two is the answer...
I mean categorize bands like PLC, Kra, Sid, Kagrra,.
Who can tell wether hide is pop or rock?
Then ofcourse we have previously mentioned Gackt, or Laruku for that matter.

 

[Davey]

I guess not. But I don't think splitting it in two is the answer...
I mean categorize bands like PLC, Kra, Sid, Kagrra,.
Who can tell wether hide is pop or rock?

that's why I ask for other idea's... but right now the Jpop section is for 80-90% Jrock....

It's not easy true!!!

but on official websites from PLC, Kra, Sid, Kagrra,. they define themselves as Rock or pop?

 

[Kinsao]

This is currently being discussed by forum staff.

I raised the point to staff, that it is incredibly difficult and probably impractical to separate 'rock' and 'pop' (and where goes the goth and the techno and the j-country-and-western?).

My suggestion was to make 3 sections:
1. Individual artists threads.
2. General music discussion -- in here would go threads like 'is it all about the visual?', 'J-rock bands playing on such-and-such a date', 'popularity of j-rock in Europe'... etc.
3. Trivia and fun stuff -- in here would go threads like 'prettiest j-rocker', 'manliest j-rocker', 'what songs are stuck in your head?'.... etc.

So rest assured, it is being thought about! What do you think to my thoughts?

 

[lastmagi]

Thanks for the update, Kinsao. It's helpful to see where you folks are at.

 

[Kaine]

woo good idea kinsao =D thats good.. haha it doesnt conflict with the gackt pop or not thing =D itll be cool!

 

[lastmagi]

I think it was clever that you found a way around the genre problem. However, my concern is that in the proposed individual bands section there will be an over-represention issue in the same way as the current section- an issue I suspect what many people are also concerned about. The passage that Dutch Baka quotes in his first post here illustrates my point. So your suggestion might help some things but not all. And to be fair, I agree with the others- it's hard to parse genres, so it's good to see you folks trying your best.

 

[Honey Vanity]

I have to agree and say that Im 100% behind Kinsao's idea. It would make things a heck of a lot simpler on everyone. Sometimes its a pain to have to wade through 50 so and so is so great topics before you can get to a serious discussion or what not.

 

[-rika- shinya`]

can we add an indies section somewhere in there :?

 

[Davey]

can we add an indies section somewhere in there :?

are we using Indies music?

 

[lastmagi]

I think she was referring to the fact that there's a lot of interest and discussions about Japanese indies (non-mainstream) rock bands.

 

[Yokan]

I accidentally voted for the first, but meant to vote for other. We should have a anime music, jpop, jrock, jazz/blues, orchestral and video game music areas lol.

 

[Kinsao]

However, my concern is that in the proposed individual bands section there will be an over-represention issue in the same way as the current section

Yeah, that thought had occurred to me as well. But I couldn't think of a way round it. Personally, I hate categorising by genres (because I really suck at them, plus it's a real can of worms, plus I think they are largely valueless anyway... but that's another issue).

I don't want categorisation by genres, I would much rather find another way of dividing the forum, and my three sections was all I had been able to think of so far. However, Lastmagi makes a good point about the 'individual artists' section.

The only way I could think of getting around that would be to sub-divide the 'individual artists' section one more time, but... I don't know what into! (There are a lot of individual artist threads that seem to revolve largely around pictures, but there isn't really any way of 'segregating' these, and it would seem a bit stupid to try and do so anyway, because pictures don't preclude 'serious' discussion!)

Hmmm, I was thinking about the Indies idea... to be honest, I find forums divided in that way to be a pain to navigate (for me, anyway) because I'm having to always remember whether a band is indies or not... And similarly with forums that have a 'VK' section. It confuses me. Bands are found in there that I don't think should be there. Are Dir en grey VK? (the age old question!!)... and there are a number of bands that used to be VK and then left that look. Also some, like MUCC, that do stuff with their looks but aren't 'typical VK'.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback everyone, keep it coming, I'll keep thinking, and so will the admin people!

 

[Hyde_is_my_anti-drug]

Also I would like to add that I really hate that it has to be Rock vs. Pop fans. It shouldn't be a war. If someone likes Pop it's not the end of the world and vise versa. I hate how these music wars start because they pull people apart who ultimately have a lot in common if they could just let the other's musical tastes go. I don't like this elitist attitude that a lot of Rock fans get concerning Pop, like it's beneath them or something, and I don't like that a lot of Pop fans feel that they MUST hate Rock just to get back. I think dividing these forums could either make this problem WAY WORSE then 'tis already or make it better by alleviating the tension.
But I think it might just start new wars, like the Visual Kei issue, what is Rock and what is Pop exactly? What the hell do you do with techno? Just stick it in the Pop section? What about anima music? Where should that go? And then of course people aren't going to be able agree on any of the 'fore mentioned problems. So it's really a lose/lose situation because if it stays as 'tis people aren't going to be happy but if it changes we could have mini-wars on our hands.
I don't like categorizing personally, I think it not only divides music but music fans. The problem is if you don't categorize then how do you solve our current problem?

 

[Kaine]

huh... rite... if we do categorize the bands up as individuals... there would be a hell lot of categories dontcha think??? and then again... itll be pretty hard to navigate around like kinsao said.. dunno bout all u guys, but i just sometimes go to watever thread appeals to me... i dont really come here with a straight "okay im going to the lareine thread, then dir en grey then etc etc" mentality... um... i dunno.. this is proving to be a little harder than i thought =P

 

[lollipopz]

Dunt categorise it! it will end up with everyone getting confused about where to post and things. like where would you p ut miyavi? some of his albums are jpop and others are jrock. WE CANT HAFF LACK OF MIYAVI!!!1 I think you should just change the title of this forum to jpop/jrock. tbh, i dunt see what the problem is at the moment. diru are in here and they are deffo jrock. next we'll be haffing a visual kei forum and then everyone will be even more confused....

 

[Mycernius]

can we add an indies section somewhere in there :?

This is the problem if you want to split pop and rock. Someone will want yet another genre split from the main forum. Where do you stop?