Japanese Royal Tomb Opened to Scholars for First Time
- Thread starter Tokis-Phoenix
- Start date
Seven-Branched Sword - Wikipedia
中央日報日本語版 エラー
窶堋ｱ窶堙固椎｡窶凛窶邸窶堙債、窶吮??ﾂ坂?倪?堙??愿ｺ窶怒窶堙固津η椎｡窶凛窶堋ｩ窶堙ｧ窶ｹﾃｪﾋ廱窶堋ｵ窶堙?陳ｩ窶堙や?堋ｯ窶堋ｽ窶堙?窶堙娯?堙?/B]ﾂ、窶｢Sﾂ催焦椎｡窶凛窶堙個神ﾂ絶?倪?堙??堋ｳ窶堙ｪ窶堙ｩﾂ。
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Mythology
According to Japanese mythology, Takachiho is the land where Ninigi descended from the heavens, sent by Amaterasu, the sun goddess. It is also contains the Ama-no-Iwato shrine which is, according to myth, the location of the cave where Amaterasu hid until Ame-no-Uzume lured her out.
it is said hyuga 日向 is a place of Empeor's origin by nihonsjoki and kojiki except Izumo
it is sure 隼人hayato looks like polynesian or Austronesian such like okinawan
http://drhnakai.hp.infoseek.co.jp/sub1-68-1.htm
Takachiho
Takachiho, Miyazaki - Wikipedia
if emperor's Y chromosome is examined, it would be easy to understand...
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tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
No .. this old late 19th century newspaper article didn't referred Silla people as " imperial subjects ".
Insufficient written historical & archaeological supports on any dubious claim of Japan's total annihilation of any one of the peninsula's 3 kingdoms ( Silla,Koguryo & Baekje ).
Though,some credible entries in Chinese chronicles and diplomatic correspondences between China and Wa indictated Japanese military presence there.
tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
この建築法は、中国と日本の古建築から苦労して見つけたもので、百済建築の神髄とされる。
Baekje ( 百済 ) was the most Sinicized kingdom in the peninsula and militarily weakest compared to Silla & Koguryo for the reason that Puyo Royal House & aristocracy have relied on Han -Chinese military overlord family ( in Liaodong peninsula ) & Yamato Court for military backups in war conflicts with other northern nomadic tribes & the other 2 peninsular kingdoms ( Silla and Koguryo ).It was at the right place and right time to served as transporter of sophisticated Chinese culture ( included Buddhism during the 6th century ) to Japan.
The photo'ed pagoda is a replica architecture of .... read wiki page
Pagoda - Wikipedia
By the way,the Puyo Royal House ( 夫餘族 ) and 8 noble families ( 百済八姓 ) could write classical Chinese many hundred years before Japanese invention of hiragana & katakana based off Kanji.
tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
Ok .. I found the complete * text of 好太王碑
* Source: 國岡上廣開土境平安好太王碑 - 维基文库，自由的图书馆
* 记述高句丽建国的神话传说，说明高句丽始祖邹牟王是北夫余部落的人.
According to Koguryo legend,the founder of Koguryo was of northern Puyo clan.
* 近年來各國史學界圍繞著該碑文產生了一些爭議，重點在「而倭以辛卯年來渡海破百殘，□□新羅以為臣民。」一句。（缺字可能是「任那」或「又破」等字。）
The 2 indecipherable or illegible words ( kanji ) denoted by " xx or □□ " could've been 任那 ( Gaya ) which was a Japanese domain in the peninsula.
* Source: 好太王碑 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书
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弓月君Yuzuki
弓 kyu, ku
月 dara
why does only Japanese call 百済 kudara?
I think kudara was named from him?
there was a country where is called 弓月国 or 三月国 over silk road near the Mt.Tian Shan
Tian Shan - Wikipedia
there is a Taklamakan Desert there.
as for me, they were key persons in the japanese history more than emperors
i am interested in them
kagoshima ppl call themselves Satsuma -hayato.
Hayato people - Wikipedia
弓 kyu, ku
月 dara
why does only Japanese call 百済 kudara?
I think kudara was named from him?
there was a country where is called 弓月国 or 三月国 over silk road near the Mt.Tian Shan
Tian Shan - Wikipedia
there is a Taklamakan Desert there.
as for me, they were key persons in the japanese history more than emperors
i am interested in them
kagoshima ppl call themselves Satsuma -hayato.
Hayato people - Wikipedia
and it is said Shimazu clan is hata(秦族）
magatama..
why the symbol of the Japanese kings were discoverd in graves of kudara, shilla?
it does not means the japanese royal came from korea.
The opposite is more comprehensible at that time
If Ｉ say it extremely,
The person called the refugee , defector and korean Royals in korean Peninsula would be Wajin's origin at that time...
it was a same as refugees of manchuria after war.
after Battle of Baekgang, all wajin came back to Yamato as refugees
Battle of Baekgang - Wikipedia
Or,
The advance party ( from over silk road) might already united Yamato and there be still holdovers in Korean peninsula because Taklamakan became Desert.
秦 was 2nd advance party..
Magatama - Wikipedia
why the symbol of the Japanese kings were discoverd in graves of kudara, shilla?
it does not means the japanese royal came from korea.
The opposite is more comprehensible at that time
If Ｉ say it extremely,
The person called the refugee , defector and korean Royals in korean Peninsula would be Wajin's origin at that time...
it was a same as refugees of manchuria after war.
after Battle of Baekgang, all wajin came back to Yamato as refugees
Battle of Baekgang - Wikipedia
Or,
The advance party ( from over silk road) might already united Yamato and there be still holdovers in Korean peninsula because Taklamakan became Desert.
秦 was 2nd advance party..
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tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
Ahem,are you referring to Japan's imperial regalia ( 3 sacred treasures 三種の神器 ) :?
Imperial Regalia of Japan - Wikipedia
三神器 - 维基百科，自由的百科全书
Maybe,Baekje & Silla royalties fancied fine ancient native Japanese jewel accessory curved-beads 勾玉 ...
Back then,Japan had strong bilateral ( trade & diplomatic ) relations with these 2 southern peninsula kingdoms especially Baekje.
photo: 天叢雲剣 ( sword ) 八咫鏡 ( mirror ),八尺瓊勾玉 ( magatama )
Attachments
tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
The late Japanese historian & professor Teiji Kadowaki 門脇 禎二 ( Kyoto Tachibana University ) proposed a radical theory .....
応神天皇の代に渡来した、Emperor Ōjin was of Baekje Torai-jin origin
百済の高官、木満致（もくまち）と蘇我満智（まち）が同一人物であると言う説。Baekje' senior official named 木満致 and Japanese nobleman Misatoshi Soga were the same person.
提唱者は門脇 禎二 advocator was Teiji Kadowaki
Source: Soga clan 蘇我氏 ( Japanese )
蘇我氏 - Wikipedia
Soga clan ( English )
Soga clan - Wikipedia
Emperor Ojin
Emperor Ōjin - Wikipedia
木満致 ( Japanese google has listing of debates on his actual ethnic background and if he was actually Misatoshi Soga from the powerful Japanese Soga clan,plus relation to Yamato Royal House )
木満致 - Google Search
According to archaeologist Oka Masao,the Japanese people came from 5 population groups.
(1) north-eastern Asiatic Tungusic
(2) Austro-Asiatic
(3) Altaic group
(4) south-eastern Asiatic group of Austronesian origin
(5) ethnic group of Melanesian origin
Source: Official and Popular Religion
Professor Masao Oka on " Race,Ethnicity,Migration of Japan "
Race, Ethnicity and Migration in Modern Japan
it might be good if they dont insist this origin...
Soga no Emishi (蘇我蝦夷, Soga no Emishi? 587 - 645) was a statesman of Yamato Imperial Court. His alternative names include Emishi (毛人) and Toyora no Ooomi (豊浦大臣). After the death of his father Umako, Emishi took over Ooomi, the Minister of state, from his father.
Soga no Emishi - Wikipedia
haired ppl...
i think they were Jomon ppl?
at least , both korean and chinese are not haired ppl
and 弓月国 was a buddhinst country.
『宋書』
自昔祖禰 躬擐甲冑 跋渉山川 不遑寧處 東征毛人五十國 西服衆夷六十六國 渡平海北九十五國」（『宋書』倭国伝）
I
tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
I have late former US president Ronald Reagan for counter-argument,he too had a few nicknames "Dutch," "The Gipper," "The Great Communicator" but he was no Dutch descent ( rather Anglo-Irish stock ) neither was Soga no Emishi a real " Emishi 毛人= hairy people " ...
http://millercenter.org/academic/americanpresident/reagan
tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
A Chinese man Yu Zhenhuan 29 who is listed in the Guinness Book of Records as the hairiest man in the world .... 
World's hairiest man signs up with online dating agency
World's hairiest man signs up with online dating agency
I am talking in general because of Jomon heritage
korean army LOL
why is there few korean with chest hair
http://www.kahaku.go.jp/special/past/kao-ten/kao/jomon/jomon-f.html
沖縄の方はなぜ、毛深いと言われているのですか？？九州の方もですか？？宜しくお願いします。 - 沖縄の方はなぜ、毛深いと言われているので... - Yahoo!知恵袋
korean army LOL
why is there few korean with chest hair
http://www.kahaku.go.jp/special/past/kao-ten/kao/jomon/jomon-f.html
沖縄の方はなぜ、毛深いと言われているのですか？？九州の方もですか？？宜しくお願いします。 - 沖縄の方はなぜ、毛深いと言われているので... - Yahoo!知恵袋
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tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
Yamato Dynasty is undisputably Wa-jin ( 倭人: native Japanese ) origin,they can chase the rainbow
日露戦争後には日本に寄生
二次大戦後は米国に寄生
そして今では中国に寄生
Forever 寄生害虫国家 ..
tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
Ok .. I've read some online Japanese & Chinese sources suggesting 木満致 was bi-ethnic offspring of Wa-jin 木羅斤資 and a local Silla woman during his military expedition in that kingdom.
tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
Since I can't participate in ( caster51,you may link this post or thread to )
Korean History Dilemma
I would like to present back up to caster51's latest posts.I found one online summary of a book,favoritism towards people of K-peninsula is quite entreched in the mentality of Japanese elite establishment.A replay of same scenario during Japan's rule of K-peninsula & Taiwan,there were more parliament members from the peninsula & treated better than Taiwanese people of same status.
例如在比較中國與三韓移民身分地位時，指出獲得"朝臣"高姓的五支氏族全部出自朝鮮移民，而中國移民只能獲得較低的"宿祢"姓.繼而從擔任四位以上公卿要職的十名移民中，朝鮮移民有七人，而中國移民僅佔三人的情況，得出"日本仿效唐朝制度文化，但並沒有因此特殊優待中國移民"的結論（ p.89 ），令人信服.
In ancient time,Immigrants from the Chinese mainland rewarded " lower status " name or nobility titles despite the fact Japan was very much culturally influenced by China.
Source: http://translate.google.com/transla...%E4%BF%82&hl=en&rlz=1T4SKPB_enUS232US233&sa=G
Korean History Dilemma
I would like to present back up to caster51's latest posts.I found one online summary of a book,favoritism towards people of K-peninsula is quite entreched in the mentality of Japanese elite establishment.A replay of same scenario during Japan's rule of K-peninsula & Taiwan,there were more parliament members from the peninsula & treated better than Taiwanese people of same status.
例如在比較中國與三韓移民身分地位時，指出獲得"朝臣"高姓的五支氏族全部出自朝鮮移民，而中國移民只能獲得較低的"宿祢"姓.繼而從擔任四位以上公卿要職的十名移民中，朝鮮移民有七人，而中國移民僅佔三人的情況，得出"日本仿效唐朝制度文化，但並沒有因此特殊優待中國移民"的結論（ p.89 ），令人信服.
In ancient time,Immigrants from the Chinese mainland rewarded " lower status " name or nobility titles despite the fact Japan was very much culturally influenced by China.
Source: http://translate.google.com/transla...%E4%BF%82&hl=en&rlz=1T4SKPB_enUS232US233&sa=G
even korean king was given bwlow 従5位
for example, 百済王敬福
百済王敬福 - Wikipedia
he was given 従5位 at first.
after that, he had a good work in tohoku region
then he ranked Up to 従三位(朝臣)
朝臣 - Wikipedia
天皇（emperor)
皇族(imperial family )
正1位
従1位
━━━━━━━↑役員クラス↑━━━━━━━━━━
正2位
従2位
正3位
従3位←昇進した冠位rank up
正4位
従4位
━━━━━━━↑部長、課長クラス↑━━━━━━━
正5位
従5位 ←百済王(kudara king)の基本の冠位
正6位
従6位
tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
Clarification ...
The author's emphasis was " no preferential treatment " to assimilated immigrants of Chinese continental background.Among Torai-jins of 四位 rank or higher,he tallied 7 of 10 were K-peninsula heritage versus 3 out of 10 for Chinese-origin.
* " 日本仿效唐朝制度文化，但並沒有因此特殊優待中國移民 "的結論（ p.89 ）.
Also,5 family clans of Asomi "朝臣"( second highest of the eight hereditary titles in ancient Japan ) all were K-peninsula background.
* 指出獲得"朝臣"高姓的五支氏族全部出自朝鮮移民
Just a thought,this lopsided count was possibly due to the fact " Yamatoized " Baekje & Silla & Kogyryo immigrants outnumbered those of Chinese mainland origin.
The author's emphasis was " no preferential treatment " to assimilated immigrants of Chinese continental background.Among Torai-jins of 四位 rank or higher,he tallied 7 of 10 were K-peninsula heritage versus 3 out of 10 for Chinese-origin.
* " 日本仿效唐朝制度文化，但並沒有因此特殊優待中國移民 "的結論（ p.89 ）.
Also,5 family clans of Asomi "朝臣"( second highest of the eight hereditary titles in ancient Japan ) all were K-peninsula background.
* 指出獲得"朝臣"高姓的五支氏族全部出自朝鮮移民
Just a thought,this lopsided count was possibly due to the fact " Yamatoized " Baekje & Silla & Kogyryo immigrants outnumbered those of Chinese mainland origin.
tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
I need to backtrack my own opinion in previous post,I now remember Japan's Shinsen-Syoujiroku ( 新撰姓氏録 Japanese surname registry ) recorded 163 Han-Chinese origins ( 漢系163氏 ) oppose to total of 151 combined for Baekje & Koguryo & Silla.
* 記録に見える日本氏族以外の渡来系氏族数
漢系163氏、( Baekje ) 百済系104氏、( Koguryo ) 高麗系41氏、( Silla ) 新羅系6氏、
Source: 新撰姓氏録 - Wikipedia
So,this Taiwanese author accurately stated the facts.
tokapi
後輩
- 8 Sep 2007
- 850
- 5
You're wrong ...
Mutual Ancestry Theory in Chinese characters " 日鮮同祖論 ".
内鮮一体 was Japan's imperialistic " Kominka Movement = 皇民化運動 " of colonial assimilation policy in the K-peninsula.
For Taiwan ( 台灣 ),it was called 「 内台一體 」.
Source: http://bloguide.ettoday.com/japanresearch/textview.php?file=128698
- 28 Jul 2005
- 5,238
- 172
A little bit of embedding to give evidence for a matter which in turn is evidence for a claim in argumentation on a point which supports a conclusion being argued for is super-dooper, A-OK !! It's fine, no problems. . ..
I reason that this thread has now gone into overkill, when compared to the immediate range of the topic created by, and in lines with the OP. Also, there is no real need to intermingle threads here which at best very questionably mesh towards the topic of the OP in argumentation.
As for the subject of background, we can say that there may well be epochs at which a hard line can be drawn, but that is only in theory. . . in the heat of the real game, there are no really hard and fast lines. We do have a thread on that matter anyway, already well supplied with the information and arguments--though it went downhill academically speaking.
Does anyone have any recent news on findings and observations from the tomb itself? I think it'd be great to bring such out here, and drop the other line of argumentation here--basically.
I reason that this thread has now gone into overkill, when compared to the immediate range of the topic created by, and in lines with the OP. Also, there is no real need to intermingle threads here which at best very questionably mesh towards the topic of the OP in argumentation.
As for the subject of background, we can say that there may well be epochs at which a hard line can be drawn, but that is only in theory. . . in the heat of the real game, there are no really hard and fast lines. We do have a thread on that matter anyway, already well supplied with the information and arguments--though it went downhill academically speaking.
Does anyone have any recent news on findings and observations from the tomb itself? I think it'd be great to bring such out here, and drop the other line of argumentation here--basically.
