Japan & Taiwan: Bilateral relations

shiroma · 30 Jun 2007

如果不做（这件事），我不知道今后将如何面对自己

Very interesting interview with Xue Yi:

独家专访抗议李登辉访日的中国工程师薛义

薛义：爱国可以具体到很多方面，身在国外，应该知道自己的一言一行都代表着中国人和中国的形象。爱国不是空喊口号。面对对手，该示强的时候决不应示弱。

The state-run media proudly putting in his clause "staying abroad, we should know that one's every statement and every action represent the image of Chinese and China." means a lot to people who know what China/Chinese have said and done.

gs001 · 30 Jun 2007

82riceballs said:
calling me childish???
looks like you need a better look at yourself The law's on my side, afterall.

Why are you so interested in law literally?
When a treaty was announced repeal, it would be null.
whether a new treaty is inked or not has nothing to
do with the repeal.
that's why Taiwan was returned to China not Japan by ally.
These days, a lot of Japanese like you want to reverse a verdict
of WWII, that can only damage the reputation of Japan.
like comfort woman issue

gs001 · 30 Jun 2007

名無し said:
Very interesting interview with Xue Yi:
独家专访抗议李登辉访日的中国工程师薛义The state-run media proudly putting in his clause "staying abroad, we should know that one's every statement and every action represent the image of Chinese and China." means a lot to people who know what China/Chinese have said and done.

So you understand Chinese?
Xue Yi's action is also debated in Chinese forum
you can have a look.
http://club2.cat898.com/newbbs/dispbbs_1_1715049.html
http://club2.cat898.com/newbbs/dispbbs_1_1716337.html
http://club2.cat898.com/newbbs/dispbbs_1_1716790.html
http://club2.cat898.com/newbbs/dispbbs_1_1716976.html
from these threads, you can see the influence of nationalism becomes weaker and weaker in China, people become more and more rational.
good trend, right?

82riceballs · 30 Jun 2007

gs001 said:
When a treaty was announced repeal, it would be null. whether a new treaty is inked or not has nothing to do with the repeal. that's why Taiwan was returned to China not Japan by ally. These days, a lot of Japanese like you want to reverse a verdict of WWII, that can only damage the reputation of Japan. like comfort woman issue

Nice guess, but I'm not Japanese and I certainly don't approve of comfort women. Only radical nationalists in Japan try to cover up for that (they're shamed in the international news, so don't worry. i read abt one of the officials trying to cover up for this issue and New York times criticized them). However, this is besides the point.
Taiwan was never returned to China. If you read American news instead of Chinese news, you would know that there was no formal document saying that Taiwan was returned to the land-mass called China. There simply was no such "verdict". Why do you think China makes everyone "acknowledge" their One-china Policy? China is using its veto power in the UN to get more followers of this false doctrine. Read this:
1. Is Taiwan a Country?
2. The Risk of War Over Taiwan is Real
3. Taiwan and China

gs001 · 1 Jul 2007

82riceballs said:
Taiwan was never returned to China. If you read American news instead of Chinese news, you would know that there was no formal document saying that Taiwan was returned to the land-mass called China. There simply was no such "verdict". Why do you think China makes everyone "acknowledge" their One-china Policy? China is using its veto power in the UN to get more followers of this false doctrine.

Is there a formal document declaring Beijing is a part of China?
find it out for me in your "American news" , OK?
Before you ask "Is Taiwan a part of China?"
I suggest you learn an idiom called "went without saying"
If you come from any mainstream countries, I believe you will
get the right answer from your government.
If you come from some tiny Latin American countries or some
tiny islands in ocean who eager for Taiwan's money, things will
be different.

82riceballs said:
The Risk of War Over Taiwan is Real

I agree with you, show you a picture taken in a Chinese navy base.
Do you understand the eight Chinese characters on the banner?

4321go · 1 Jul 2007

I doubt it will have a war! because,see this:
2005 Pan–Blue visits to mainland China - Wikipedia
I am quite optimistic. for there are only one third of TaiWan people want independent...

caster51 · 1 Jul 2007

One of the main aim of the revolution launched by Chinese nationalist
party as well as Chinese communist party is to repeal any unfair treaty
imposed to China by imperialist.
shimonoseki treaty definitely is an unfair treaty, so it must
be repealed.

treaty is treaty

I guess that Japanese learned a lot of words, but there are two
words that Japanese seem have never learned,
they are "right" and "wrong"

I hane never heard that someone has a right to rape with threat and A-bomd

4321go · 1 Jul 2007

treaty is treaty

and then

crap treaty is crap treaty ~

gs001 · 1 Jul 2007

caster51 said:
treaty is treaty
I hane never heard that someone has a right to rape with threat and A-bomd

If "right" and "wrong" are never taken into your consideration,
OK, let me try to describe it in the "language" you can understand:
You got Taiwan, because you won a war,
You lost Taiwan, because you lost a war.
If you want to "reclaim" Taiwan, you have to win another war.
It is extremely easy to impose an unfair treaty to the loser.
But if you lose again.......hehehe...you know what will happen?
You will have to accept an unfair treaty just like
what you imposed to China 100 years ago.
then I'd like to ask your feeling.
and I hope your offspring can always insist on your
"treaty is treaty" theory and abide by the unfair treaty for ever.
understand?

caster51 · 1 Jul 2007

If "right" and "wrong" are never taken into your consideration,

of corese. Japan accepted the only Judgement of Tokyo trial

If you want to "reclaim" Taiwan, you have to win another war.

If Taiwan wants to be , it would...
Japan does not want to rape

"treaty is treaty" theory and abide by the unfair treaty for ever.
understand?

Nope. it is nothing to do with "Cession"of Taiwan......
The improvement of treaty is possible in the future.
However at that time of treaty never changed and improve now.
bacause japan already abondaned..

82riceballs · 2 Jul 2007

gs001 said:
Is there a formal document declaring Beijing is a part of China? find it out for me in your "American news" , OK?

You can't compare Beijing, which has always been a part of China, to Taiwan, which has been a part of Qing China, Japan, Dutch, etc.

Before you ask "Is Taiwan a part of China?"
I suggest you learn an idiom called "went without saying"

"went without saying?" may apply to your Beijing question, but it is not a definitely not a legal term that applies to Taiwan. "went without saying" is just a claim.

If you come from any mainstream countries, I believe you will
get the right answer from your government.
If you come from some tiny Latin American countries or some
tiny islands in ocean who eager for Taiwan's money, things will
be different.

Read my flag. I live in the United States of America where even middle school social studies teachers know that taiwan is not a part of china.
visit the department of state website: dependences and areas of special sovereignty. Note that Taiwan is not listed here.

My view on possible war is that, that is just an empty threat. Japan declared that it would protect the surrounding area and even claims that it can defeat all of the Chinese air force in less than 24 hours. Taiwan is surrounded by water. If the Chinese navy were to go to taiwan, they would be killed before they reached land. also, have you ever considered why china's economy is getting better? where is the money coming from? the money comes from foreign countries that order goods from taiwanese companies which have factories in china.

gs001 · 2 Jul 2007

caster51 said:
of corese. Japan accepted the only Judgement of Tokyo trial

You should thank for the lenience of Ally, especially American
If they forced you to sign an unfair treaty after WWII just
like what you did to your neighbors, hehe.....
from this I hope you can understand what is right and what is wrong.

caster51 said:
If Taiwan wants to be , it would...
Japan does not want to rape

Taiwan is the core interest of China, even if all Taiwanese
agree to be a part of Japan, dare you government accept them?

caster51 said:
Nope. it is nothing to do with "Cession"of Taiwan......
The improvement of treaty is possible in the future.
However at that time of treaty never changed and improve now.
bacause japan already abondaned..

Do you know what's chicanery mean?

82riceballs said:
You can't compare Beijing, which has always been a part of China, to Taiwan, which has been a part of Qing China, Japan, Dutch, etc.
"went without saying?" may apply to your Beijing question, but it is not a definitely not a legal term that applies to Taiwan. "went without saying" is just a claim.
Read my flag. I live in the United States of America where even middle school social studies teachers know that taiwan is not a part of china.
visit the department of state website: dependences and areas of special sovereignty. Note that Taiwan is not listed here..

"United States of America"'s governmnet as well as other main countries in the world,
declared their "one China policy" again and again .
have you ever heard?

82riceballs said:
My view on possible war is that, that is just an empty threat. Japan declared that it would protect the surrounding area and even claims that it can defeat all of the Chinese air force in less than 24 hours. Taiwan is surrounded by water. If the Chinese navy were to go to taiwan, they would be killed before they reached land.
.

unfortunately only war can prove which force is more powerful
Chinese government has sturdily declared: "independence=war",
again and again and agian.........
But I didn't find any imformation that USA wants to protect
an independent Taiwan, contrarily,Taiwan "president" often get
admonition from USA of "not to provocate".
tell me who is afraid of whom?

82riceballs said:
also, have you ever considered why china's economy is getting better? where is the money coming from? the money comes from foreign countries that order goods from taiwanese companies which have factories in china.

Do you really know the economic size of mainland VS Taiwan?

4321go · 2 Jul 2007

I feel more and more strange that what to do with the other countries~

Things become more and more complex.

see you in 2008 ~only less than a half of TaiWan people have been brainwashed and want independent. and few people like 82riceballs \caster51.
82riceballs \caster51 can't stand for Taiwan people 's main public opinion .

see you in 2008. when the KMT become the ruler of TaiWan...

82riceballs · 3 Jul 2007

gs001 said:
"United States of America"'s governmnet as well as other main countries in the world, declared their "one China policy" again and again . have you ever heard?

they have never declared it to be true; only "acknowledged" it. Countries such as US and Japan word their legal documents very clearly.

unfortunately only war can prove which force is more powerful
Chinese government has sturdily declared: "independence=war",
again and again and agian.........

True, but do you really think that China can defeat Japan in a war? I'm not saying that the Chinese military is weak, I'm just saying it's not strong enough against a country whose airforce is undetectable, uses the latest technology, etc.

But I didn't find any imformation that USA wants to protect an independent Taiwan, contrarily,Taiwan "president" often get admonition from USA of "not to provocate".

True, the president gets admonition. Though you may not acknowledge the legal status of the "president" as you said, Americans do. Proof: Strait Talking-TIME magazine

Do you really know the economic size of mainland VS Taiwan?

Did you ever consider the GDP per capita?

see you in 2008 ~only less than a half of TaiWan people have been brainwashed and want independent. and few people like 82riceballs caster51.
82riceballs \caster51 can't stand for Taiwan people 's main public opinion.

Not true. I clearly remember that 64% of all residents on Taiwan move towards independence.
What Taiwan Wants. Click on the Pie chart on the left side and you will see. ALso, I believe it is those who believe in re-unification that are brainwashed. What has the CPC been doing since after World War II?

see you in 2008. when the KMT become the ruler of TaiWan

This is not likely to happen. Though the mayor of Taipei may be Chinese, that is only because the majority of people living in Taipei are wai sheng ren. But the majority of people living on the entire island is still TAiwanese.

4321go · 3 Jul 2007

whose airforce is undetectable, uses the latest technology, etc??
the secret is out ~!!! I think the master of Japan -US ,already notice this .

Proof: Strait Talking-TIME magazine ??

That dialogue shows Chen Shui-bian wants to be a local despot; a local tyrant; a local chieftain .

Taiwan's return will surely accelerate China's grow up . I can't tell there will be any harmful result for Taiwan People .I know quite clearly that it will harm the leader of Taiwan,for the status drop. The status of president is self-given,nomarch instead of president after Taiwan return.
So ,Taiwan's leader don't want return .

TaiWan isn't admitted as a country by UN and any country in the world,They all think Taiwan is part of China
Traitor is not welcomed by any country...

gs001 · 3 Jul 2007

82riceballs said:
True, but do you really think that China can defeat Japan in a war? I'm not saying that the Chinese military is weak, I'm just saying it's not strong enough against a country whose airforce is undetectable, uses the latest technology, etc.

Hahaha, It seems that you have much much more confidence
even than that of whitehouse and Pentagon.
Do you really know any NEW decisive weapons equiped by
US or Japan except 8-8 10-10 12-12 fleet, aircraft carrier,
submarine, f-2 f-15... f-22 f-35...etc?
If you really know something that I don't know, just tell me..
Do you know anything about Chinese military preparation?
You don't? neither do I., but I do know:
these days, any military action taken by Chinese army
makes USA (say nothing of Japan) nervous.
Someone seems ﾂ敕吮?冦ﾅｽﾃ陳敕厖?

82riceballs · 3 Jul 2007

4321go said:
whose airforce is undetectable, uses the latest technology, etc?? the secret is out ~!!! I think the master of Japan -US ,already notice this.

i never said the US doesn't know this. of course the US knows this! and one thing, there is no master of Japan, so please clarify what you mean when you say that. Also, the US is not going to fight against Japan anyways.

That dialogue shows Chen Shui-bian wants to be a local despot; a local tyrant; a local chieftain.

Prove it. This is clearly your opinion, as well as the opinion of the nationalist population of China who are brainwashed by the Chinese government that all mistakes of the CPC are caused by Taiwan and Chen.

Taiwan's return will surely accelerate China's grow up.

which is one of the reasons that China wants Taiwan.

I can't tell there will be any harmful result for Taiwan People .I know quite clearly that it will harm the leader of Taiwan,for the status drop. The status of president is self-given,nomarch instead of president after Taiwan return.

1. you can't be a monarch if you're elected by the people. President Chen was clearly elected by the people of Taiwan; he did not put himself in power or be elected by his own party like Hu Jintao. 2. I notice that you say "leader of Taiwan". That is the equivalent of Taiwanese people saying ﾂ渉ｬﾅ津? so be respectful. What do Chinese people call the mayor of Taipei, then?

So ,Taiwan's leader don't want return. TaiWan isn't admitted as a country by UN and any country in the world,They all think Taiwan is part of China. Traitor is not welcomed by any country...

Taiwan isn't admitted into any international organization because of Chinese pressures, financial support, etc. China has veto power in the UN- why do you think countries like South America switch over to China? those countries don't even understand the history behind it, they just want the money. it is not because Taiwan is a "traitor" to a country it's not even a part of. When has China legally commanded Taiwan to do something? by the way, Taiwan is more welcome in Japan than China is. in America, too, because of the absence of nukes. Did you hear about the NY Mayor Bloomberg who called Taiwan a "State"? and that Mayor Giuliani refused to meet Jiang Zemin and Zhu Rongji?

4321go · 3 Jul 2007

I am a little curious that what kinds of girl you are ?? in fact , I find you are very charming ~~ haha .

You are quite indomitable, but so far , you don't convince me anyway. ok , wait 2008. then ,things will be clear . 2008 ,will be a good year~!

82riceballs · 3 Jul 2007

4321go said:
I am a little curious that what kinds of girl you are ?? in fact , I find you are very charming ~~ haha .

thanks...

You are quite indomitable, but so far , you don't convince me anyway. ok , wait 2008. then ,things will be clear . 2008 ,will be a good year~!

Yes, I agree with you. 2008 will be a good year! ﾅｽﾃ凪?卍ｷ窶凖ｬ will win without fail!

The future of Taiwan is in the hands of Taiwanese people not in the hands of the Chinese. American journalist, Ian Williams, once said that "According to modern international practice and the principles of democracy, the Tai-wanese do indeed have the right to 'declare' what is manifestly already true: that they are an independent, sovereign state."

4321go · 4 Jul 2007

马英九

WILL WIN

Ｉ bet it ~!

Do you have blog or MSN messager .If I can know much more of your mind? ^_^

82riceballs · 5 Jul 2007

4321go said:
Do you have blog or MSN messager .If I can know much more of your mind? ^_^

人家才十三歲---- 不可能有那麼多時間搞 blog. 也沒有 MSN.

Mikawa Ossan · 5 Jul 2007

4321go said:
马窶ｰp窶ｹﾃ｣
WILL WIN
窶喇ﾂ bet it ~!
Do you have blog or MSN messager .If I can know much more of your mind? ^_^

82riceballs said:
ﾂ人窶ｰﾃ?催仰十ﾅｽO歲---- 窶｢s窶ｰﾃや?拿窶猫窶愿溪?ｺﾃｵ窶伉ｽﾅｽﾅｾﾅ?ﾃ?#25630; blog. 窶禿ｧﾅｸ窶懌?猫 MSN.

Please conduct personal affairs through PM.

82riceballs · 5 Jul 2007

Mikawa Ossan said:
Please conduct personal affairs through PM.

窶怒窶懌?凪?堙俄?堋ｷ窶堙昶?堙懌?堋ｹ窶堙ｱﾂ！ﾂ窶添窶堙ｪ窶堙??堋ｽﾂ！

(message was too short)

caster51 · 12 Sep 2007

２００７年９月７日産経新聞

【台北＝長谷川周人】台湾が独自で行った初の「台湾」名義による国連加盟申請に対し、潘基文事務総長が国連は「一つの中国」政策を維持しているとして申請書を不受理としたことを受け、在国連日本代表部は国連事務局に対して先月、「台湾に関する地位認定の解釈が不適切だ」という異例の申し入れを行った。日本の在台代表機関に相当する交流協会が６日、明らかにした。

１９７２年９月の日中共同声明で日本は、中国が主張する「一つの中国」を「理解し、尊重する」と
して、「同意を与えていない」というのが基本的な立場だ。これに対して国連が、事務総長見解として「一つの中国」政策を国連全体の解釈とするのは「不適切」という日本政府の認識を明確にした形だ。
申し入れは米国に続いて約半月前に行ったもので、日本代表部は台湾の戦後の帰属問題に関しても、「サンフランシスコ講和条約で台湾を放棄したが、どこに帰属すべきかは言うべき立場でない」という日本政府の基本認識も伝えた。

according to Sankei newspaper on 7th sep
Japan criticized to that UN is keeping inappropriate one china policy

4321go · 14 Sep 2007

Does it has anything to do with the Japanese Gov.

"abandoned Taiwan in the San Francisco peace treaty, it conveyed also the basic recognition of the Japanese government that, but it should revert somewhere, it is not the standpoint where it should call"

１９７２年９月の日中共同声明で日本は、中国が主張する「一つの中国」を「理解し、尊重する」と

Japan & Taiwan: Bilateral relations

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