Japan & Taiwan: Bilateral relations

caster51 · 30 Mar 2007

I think the relation of Japan and Taiwan is very good.
The Japanese feel Taiwanese is a like brother

I think They are evaluating Japan reasonable though There are their independence issues in the background. .

The relation between prewar days is the same as Korea.
I think korea was better treated than Taiwan.

Why Japan feels a big debt in them.?
They do not accept the apology of Japan.
They say that they need not apologize.

I think it is a good hint in that?
How do you think?

hanachan · 13 Apr 2007

caster51 said:
I think the relation of Japan and Taiwan is very good.
The Japanese feel Taiwanese is a like brother
I think They are evaluating Japan reasonable though There are their independence issues in the background. .
The relation between prewar days is the same as Korea.
I think korea was better treated than Taiwan.
Why Japan feels a big debt in them.?
They do not accept the apology of Japan.
They say that they need not apologize.
I think it is a good hint in that?
How do you think?

Hi caster51, Americans and Europeans don't have many informations about Taiwan. Many of them think Taiwan is like a part of China.
Or, people backed by China and Korea will ignore this topic. They don't accept a image of "friendly Japan" and "good Japan" in a war time.
However, we Japanese should know more about Taiwan. If the leader of Taiwan at that time was not Chiang Kai-shek, would Japan exist today? Maybe you belong to the US and I belong to China under the division occupation. Chiang Kai-shek didn't want it, right?

diceke · 13 Apr 2007

hanachan said:
Hi caster51, Americans and Europeans don't have many informations about Taiwan. Many of them think Taiwan is like a part of China.
Or, people backed by China and Korea will ignore this topic. They don't accept a image of "friendly Japan" and "good Japan" in a war time.

That's because some people, like on this form, love to tell a moral narrative that uses history to reinforce the moral teaching it presents: Victor's justice. The assumption is that Japan is a bad guy, no matter what it did, and Japan's claim to justice greatly offends their self-righteous minds. (I'm not saying that Japan was good, in case some dyslexic people deliberately misinterpret my posts.)

hanachan · 14 Apr 2007

diceke said:
The assumption is that Japan is a bad guy, no matter what it did, and Japan's claim to justice greatly offends their self-righteous minds.

Yes, I know. I really learned it today. (at another thread) :box: :box: :box:

diceke · 14 Apr 2007

hanachan said:
Yes, I know. I really learned it today. (at another thread) :box: :box: :box:

According to their logic, it's either good or bad, black or white, nothing in between, and the middle alternatives largely ignored. Dichotomy can be a hindrance to seeing things.

caster51 · 15 Apr 2007

They don't accept a image of "friendly Japan" and "good Japan" in a war time.

http://www.7andy.jp/books/detail?accd=31633211
this old Taiwanese said " taiwan was not colony of Japan because Japan never plundered in Taiwan" though I really feel sorry about them.
in particular, Takasago ppl, Japan must compensate to them
http://www.asunonippon.net/movie/takasago.asx
about 8,000 Taiwanese boys at that time
http://videooftaiwan.streamguys.com/vid2/TokyoJapan/TaiChoHoe/TaiChoHoe_.wmv
http://www.nomusan.com/~essay/taiwan-syounenkou.html

Aerain · 17 Apr 2007

The way I see it ( I know I am off topic) is that Japan is not either bad or good, as during WW2, as an institution, they were forced to take considerable measure to make sure they wouldn't end up being the underdogs in the world scene.

shiroma · 12 May 2007

Former Taiwanese President Set to Visit Japan

Lee plans to spend about ten days there before returning to Taiwan.

82riceballs · 12 May 2007

huh?

hanachan said:
Hi caster51, Americans and Europeans don't have many informations about Taiwan. Many of them think Taiwan is like a part of China.
Or, people backed by China and Korea will ignore this topic. They don't accept a image of "friendly Japan" and "good Japan" in a war time.
However, we Japanese should know more about Taiwan. If the leader of Taiwan at that time was not Chiang Kai-shek, would Japan exist today? Maybe you belong to the US and I belong to China under the division occupation. Chiang Kai-shek didn't want it, right?

What does 'If the leader of Taiwan at that time was not Chiang Kai-shek, would Japan exist today?' mean?

i agree with caster51 in that Taiwan is like a brother to Japan and that T-J relations are going very well (a lot better than Chinese-Japanese relations). My parents talk a lot about how Taiwan is helped a lot by Japan- i'm guessing it's in a joined effort against China.

There are pretty much 7,000 missiles in China aimed at Taiwan (maybe even at Japan or the United States, if they were to purposely veer off course). When the Chinese (ﾅ?Oﾂ湘按人ﾂ）government people (since back then, only the Chinese Nationalists could be government officials- until their deaths, then their sons took over) refused to buy weapons from the United States, the Japan government bought it.

hanachan · 12 May 2007

82riceballs said:
What does 'If the leader of Taiwan at that time was not Chiang Kai-shek, would Japan exist today?' mean?

I talked about "Divide-and-rule plan of Japan". (by plan of in existence in American National Archives)
Japan may have been divided-and-ruled such as Germany and Austria.
Stalin who wanted Hokkaido was very positive for the plan.
But Chiang Kai-shek declared that his Army was not stationed in Japan.
I'm not sure how much he influenced the situation.
I'm sure that he understood Japan and Japanese temperament better than other Allied leaders, because he attended the Military State Academy in Japan in 1907 and served in the Imperial Japanese Army from 1909 to 1911.
Anyway the fact is that the plan was not realized.
Yes, we were lucky.

Of course I know that Chiang Kai-shek was not a good leader for all Taiwanese.
Especially for the local Taiwanese (窶怒ﾂ湘按人) he was often a violent dictator.
However, I think that it's also the fact that his presence kept Taiwan independent from Communist China during the cold war.
How do the most of Taiwanese think about mainland China, today?

diceke · 12 May 2007

hanachan said:
I talked about "Divide-and-rule plan of Japan". (by plan of in existence in American National Archives)
Japan may have been divided-and-ruled such as Germany and Austria.
Stalin who wanted Hokkaido was very positive for the plan.

Japan was divided. Forgot the Kuril Islands dispute? Japan also renounced a large part of its former territories.☝

But Chiang Kai-shek declared that his Army was not stationed in Japan.

I guess he kept himself busy fighting the commies.☝

hanachan · 12 May 2007

diceke said:
I guess he kept himself busy fighting the commies.☝

haha... maybe you're right

Can we take back the Kuril Islands?
If we say to Russia "you need not to return it instead of we stopping economic support", they would change their mind?

hanachan · 13 May 2007

This is from a local TV program in Japan.
Japanese made this. I want to know if it's true or not from a viewpoint of Taiwanese.
What Japan did in WWII - Taiwan
From that web page, you also see about Japanese military in other countries:
Malaysia, UK, Myanmer, Indonesia, Palau, Korea...
Let me know how you felt.

caster51 · 1 Jun 2007

Fomer Taiwanese Presidentto visit Japan and Yasukuni

Lee Deng-Hui , we welcome you. have a good trip

gs001 · 1 Jun 2007

That is what Japanese did in Taiwan.
Any Japanese today feel glory of what your ancestor did
or feel shame of them?
http://upfile.cat898.com/UploadFile/2007-6/20076118457204.jpg

caster51 · 1 Jun 2007

it does not look like the Taiwanese and japanese

Mikawa Ossan · 1 Jun 2007

gs001 said:
That is what Japanese did in Taiwan.
Any Japanese today feel glory of what your ancestor did
or feel shame of them?
http://upfile.cat898.com/UploadFile/2007-6/20076118457204.jpg

I have turned your picture into just a link because of its graphic nature.

Just posting a picture and making an accusation is poor behavior. If you must make such an accusation, please give more credible evidence than a picture that could be from anywhere.

gs001 · 1 Jun 2007

Japanese were famous for their brutality before 1945
There are thousands of photos can confirm this.
and the evil behavior of your ancestor were known worldwide.
Someone like "Mikawa Ossan" wants to deny the fact by deleting
my picture, that is really absurd.

Mikawa Ossan · 1 Jun 2007

gs001 said:
Japanese were famous for their brutality before 1945
There are thousands of photos can confirm this.
and the evil behavior of your ancestor were known worldwide.
Someone like "Mikawa Ossan" wants to deny the fact by deleting
my picture, that is really absurd.

Please refer to my PM.

gs001 · 1 Jun 2007

In your PM, I see
"burden of proof is on your shoulders."
Is that mean you want more pictures like that
to proof the brutality of your ancestor?
If your answer is "yes", I'd like to satisfy you.

caster51 · 1 Jun 2007

Is that mean you want more pictures like that

Yeah, I want to see.
please note "when? ,what incident?, who did?, who was victim?" Ok

like this.
CNN - Photos document brutality in Shanghai - Sept. 23, 1996

Mycernius · 2 Jun 2007

gs001 said:
Japanese were famous for their brutality before 1945
There are thousands of photos can confirm this.
and the evil behavior of your ancestor were known worldwide.
Someone like "Mikawa Ossan" wants to deny the fact by deleting
my picture, that is really absurd.

The Chinese are hardly an example of good behaviour themselves. Mao killed millions of his own casual dis-regard for human life during the cultural revolution and during the war. You want 'evil ancestors' look to your own as well. No country can call itself a paragon of virtue.

gs001 · 2 Jun 2007

Mycernius said:
The Chinese are hardly an example of good behaviour themselves. Mao killed millions of his own casual dis-regard for human life during the cultural revolution and during the war. You want 'evil ancestors' look to your own as well. No country can call itself a paragon of virtue.

The difference is :
we don't sophisticate for what Mao did,
but Japanese always sophisticate for the evil behavior of
their ancestor

gs001 · 2 Jun 2007

caster51 said:
Yeah, I want to see.
please note "when? ,what incident?, who did?, who was victim?" Ok
like this.
CNN - Photos document brutality in Shanghai - Sept. 23, 1996

gs001 · 2 Jun 2007

I'm not advocating hatred,
I just want someone to know the fact.

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