Japan Bashing
- Thread starter senseiman
- Start date
Emoni
先輩
- 20 Sep 2003
- 1,779
- 67
Caster, your behavior is EXACTLY the sort of behavior I just spoke of.
I see, so any comment, analysis, or criticism is instantly invalid because someone isn't directly from that culture. Even though you never defined that culture as social differences, historical belief, minority groups in Japan, familial belief differences, or the year your child grew up and what shows he watched as a kid defining him. Not only the argument hold a DANGEROUS amount of arrogance and apathy, it was never even defined or explained. It simply went back to "You can't understand (because the metaphorical "you" said so), therefore I will not make an effort because I have already solidified my stereotype of you as ignorant and impossible to communicate with. Furthermore it is impossible for me to understand you, so I will make no effort."
Then this is followed with, "i think it is waste of time any further."
Thus, communication ends abruptly. There is no attempt to understand, there is no attempt to communicate.
On the personal level this is how relationships that could be wonderfully fruitful are tossed aside like garbage. When there is an argument, there is nothing but anger and hate rather than debate and an effort to express one's thoughts and feeling and understand the other. On the political arena, it leads to assumptions, fear, and out right lies about the intentions of the other. On the international scale it is the last step before inevitable war.
Again, this sort of (lack of) thinking is one of the most dangerous aspects international interaction. When one side takes on this sort of immature, judgmental behavior, you end up with horrible results.
I can only thank you for one thing, showing me a perfect example of this behavior on a small scale caster51. I do hope you serious reconsider your behavior for your own sake and all those who have lost the opportunity to share and learn both from you and what they have to offer in regards to experience being given to you as well.
I see, so any comment, analysis, or criticism is instantly invalid because someone isn't directly from that culture. Even though you never defined that culture as social differences, historical belief, minority groups in Japan, familial belief differences, or the year your child grew up and what shows he watched as a kid defining him. Not only the argument hold a DANGEROUS amount of arrogance and apathy, it was never even defined or explained. It simply went back to "You can't understand (because the metaphorical "you" said so), therefore I will not make an effort because I have already solidified my stereotype of you as ignorant and impossible to communicate with. Furthermore it is impossible for me to understand you, so I will make no effort."
Then this is followed with, "i think it is waste of time any further."
Thus, communication ends abruptly. There is no attempt to understand, there is no attempt to communicate.
On the personal level this is how relationships that could be wonderfully fruitful are tossed aside like garbage. When there is an argument, there is nothing but anger and hate rather than debate and an effort to express one's thoughts and feeling and understand the other. On the political arena, it leads to assumptions, fear, and out right lies about the intentions of the other. On the international scale it is the last step before inevitable war.
Again, this sort of (lack of) thinking is one of the most dangerous aspects international interaction. When one side takes on this sort of immature, judgmental behavior, you end up with horrible results.
I can only thank you for one thing, showing me a perfect example of this behavior on a small scale caster51. I do hope you serious reconsider your behavior for your own sake and all those who have lost the opportunity to share and learn both from you and what they have to offer in regards to experience being given to you as well.
Emoni
先輩
- 20 Sep 2003
- 1,779
- 67
Violent? Are you serious? How on earth is making a supported case with text and one to one communication violent? This is the exact opposite of violence so I'm simply at a loss by this statement. Responding by verbal/written communication and supporting one's statements and arguments is the anti-thesis of violence!
Furthermore, you mind showing me how I'm "tearing someone down?" I'm making my point about how dangerous this sort of thinking is. If by making a very strong supported argument against an absolutely absent and unsupported one is tearing someone down and not diplomatic, then I suggest you give an example of one. Talking, speaking, showing evidence proof and supporting your case IS being diplomatic and once again, that is what you want to promote, communication, not lack there of.
You've made one strong accusation about my post claiming it is violent and tearing someone down. One that I think is very uncalled for, as well as highly inaccurate. Before you make such claims please show and support such a statement and accusation. For a start you could present my tank and mini-gun's spent ammunition to show the violence, maybe a bloody knife. For tearing him down, please at least provide a severed finger or maybe a toenail. Those are some GROSS overstatements you made.
Furthermore, you mind showing me how I'm "tearing someone down?" I'm making my point about how dangerous this sort of thinking is. If by making a very strong supported argument against an absolutely absent and unsupported one is tearing someone down and not diplomatic, then I suggest you give an example of one. Talking, speaking, showing evidence proof and supporting your case IS being diplomatic and once again, that is what you want to promote, communication, not lack there of.
You've made one strong accusation about my post claiming it is violent and tearing someone down. One that I think is very uncalled for, as well as highly inaccurate. Before you make such claims please show and support such a statement and accusation. For a start you could present my tank and mini-gun's spent ammunition to show the violence, maybe a bloody knife. For tearing him down, please at least provide a severed finger or maybe a toenail. Those are some GROSS overstatements you made.
Kenjirou
Dude
- 30 Jul 2008
- 54
- 1
Calm down man, the word violent is used figuratively here. Just saying your rather harsh. I realize that what your doing is not violence. Not trying to pick a fight with you or anything. Using bold on some of your sentences is also seen as yelling. I've made it quite clear that I agree with what you see, now I don't see why you need to start attacking me, all I'm saying is you don't need to take a guy out to prove a point. Now please respond without attacking me next time, as I am trying not to get into an argument here, which is what I think would be a really bad thing to do. Just let it go. 
Emoni
先輩
- 20 Sep 2003
- 1,779
- 67
Wow, quiet sensitive. Sorry, but I don't flower my words. When I make a point, I make it straight and simple with the support that I need or evidence. Simple as that. I don't consider that harsh at all.
Claiming that I was violent, even figuratively, and being hard on someone for no reason without given cause is insinuating an attack more than I was. I'm not "taking a guy out" like a mob boss. If you cannot support your statement, yes, you will have the ground beneath automatically cave in. That is the fault and responsibility you have with your argument, and is not my fault.
Make a statement that is extreme and potentially dangerous to people if followed through? You better darn well back it up. I'm not going to be responding with hugs and understanding, I'm going to point out every single hole that is there.
Claiming that I was violent, even figuratively, and being hard on someone for no reason without given cause is insinuating an attack more than I was. I'm not "taking a guy out" like a mob boss. If you cannot support your statement, yes, you will have the ground beneath automatically cave in. That is the fault and responsibility you have with your argument, and is not my fault.
Make a statement that is extreme and potentially dangerous to people if followed through? You better darn well back it up. I'm not going to be responding with hugs and understanding, I'm going to point out every single hole that is there.
Kenjirou
Dude
- 30 Jul 2008
- 54
- 1
Sensitive? Perhaps. However, I am just trying to be diplomatic here, no hurt feelings all around. A good diplomat will see others' weak points and gently point them in the right direction. Now I see that you like to write a great deal and do not want to offend you with my somewhat half-assed reply but I really see no future for this debate. I hope you have understood that I was only trying to reign in your fierce assault >> not that I am in any way insinuating that you are a mobster, murderer, killer of men, doer of misdoings, or any other bad things you could possibly extract from my harmless phrases. Once again I will say that I agree that you are correct in your intent to tell off Caster. Please realize that I am in full defensive speech here and am not attacking you in any way. I am not quite sure why you have been so aggressive to my previous replies but I am confident that you will see there is no need to continue this. Now I'm afraid we have strayed off the topic of Japan Bashing at this time, and so I finish my speech.
Emoni
先輩
- 20 Sep 2003
- 1,779
- 67
I don't see how this is a related response at all. It seems you are also not even going to try to respond to my argument/statements.
there are many Japan bashing in the world.
Especially, China and the South Korea's japan bashing are interesting and entertainmet for the Japnese.
The matter of the whale in Australia was laughble recently for the Japanese..
The performance that destroyed the radio of Toshiba was the same as the
demonstration of South Korea at that thime for me.
japan bashing is always funny
Emoni
先輩
- 20 Sep 2003
- 1,779
- 67
I guess you didn't read my posts/understand them at all.
Furthermore, unsupported and politically motivated attacks on Japan are often based on the very nationalism that you support and promote Japan to increase. Claiming things are funny, neither answers the issues those countries put forward, nor the ones I did.
Back to square one again.
Ashikaga
もちもちした食感
- 19 Feb 2008
- 2,220
- 84
This is just a poll to see where the members stand on this particular issue, no? Looks like the majority of us feels the same way regarding this topic by looking at the result.
I think those who voted have expressed their opinions already. While I do not agree with some, that is just the way they feel. Unless there are other members who have not voted yet and would like to share their opinions, I don't think this is going anywhere. We are just trying to somehow prove others wrong. Is that what we are supposed to do here?
I voted for #3.
I think those who voted have expressed their opinions already. While I do not agree with some, that is just the way they feel. Unless there are other members who have not voted yet and would like to share their opinions, I don't think this is going anywhere. We are just trying to somehow prove others wrong. Is that what we are supposed to do here?
I voted for #3.
Emoni
先輩
- 20 Sep 2003
- 1,779
- 67
... so not only are you avoiding communication on the issue which I have stated in previous posts is the stem of a great deal of dangerous understanding when it comes to nations. You are promoting the bashing of other countries by the Japanese media either as an inappropriate joke to dodge the issues, or seriously?
Well, don't worry Caster, they already do sometimes if that makes you happy. Each time they do and anger a country it hurts relations with Japan as well or worsens Japanese international relations with East Asia to an even WORSE point than they already are.
Dogen Z
aka YOSUQUE
- 23 Apr 2007
- 1,072
- 22
Many Japanese believe that the severest Japan bashing is based on more than the economic/social/etc. issues at hand. In fact, the major newspapers implied, at the height of the Japan bashing frenzy, that anti-Japanese racism was a big part of it. I think I would agree with that.
I really like Japan a lot but sometimes I get a little annoyed with living in Japan.
Like when you're hungry and craving a huge tub of meat, tomatoes, and cheese all mixed in lovely gooeyness, but you know you can't have (or afford) that, then the combini is out of your favourite onigiri...and you just get a little bit upset.
Is the fact that I am annoyed at the lack of affortable cheese, meat and tomatoes to make my goo due to culture? Is my missing onigiri society's fault? Did all members of the Japanese society personally eat my favourite type of onigiri?
So I think that if you have lived in Japan then you have plently of reasons to critizise it but there are still many good things.
But I do dislike the people who critizise Japan on very little basis. Equally, I also don't like those who say that they 'love everything' about Japan on a probably even smaller basis.
Like when you're hungry and craving a huge tub of meat, tomatoes, and cheese all mixed in lovely gooeyness, but you know you can't have (or afford) that, then the combini is out of your favourite onigiri...and you just get a little bit upset.
Is the fact that I am annoyed at the lack of affortable cheese, meat and tomatoes to make my goo due to culture? Is my missing onigiri society's fault? Did all members of the Japanese society personally eat my favourite type of onigiri?
So I think that if you have lived in Japan then you have plently of reasons to critizise it but there are still many good things.
But I do dislike the people who critizise Japan on very little basis. Equally, I also don't like those who say that they 'love everything' about Japan on a probably even smaller basis.
I remember when former president Clinton in 98 visited China without coming near to Japan. both mass media calld Japan bashing loudly...
It was not even in the problem not coming near to Japan when Bush
visited China this time.
today,Japanese news media are concealing.
The Japanese mass communication doesn't report it so much though USA has increased making Japan angry.(Japan Bashing)
It is a speculation of Bush administration that wants to make the Japanese anti-American and to push it aside in Asia
as for the Japanese Government that keeps being subordinate of toward America, it is embarrassed that a Japanese anti-American feeling becomes strong. because it is so easy....
The United States wants China to the hegemony in Asia.
Japan can do nothing but receive the situation.
The strategy of Japan has already failed though japan helped USA with bashing china..
I think the truth behind the Japan bashing is important.
"bashing America" is better for Japanese than Japan vs china
It was not even in the problem not coming near to Japan when Bush
visited China this time.
today,Japanese news media are concealing.
The Japanese mass communication doesn't report it so much though USA has increased making Japan angry.(Japan Bashing)
It is a speculation of Bush administration that wants to make the Japanese anti-American and to push it aside in Asia
as for the Japanese Government that keeps being subordinate of toward America, it is embarrassed that a Japanese anti-American feeling becomes strong. because it is so easy....
The United States wants China to the hegemony in Asia.
Japan can do nothing but receive the situation.
The strategy of Japan has already failed though japan helped USA with bashing china..
I think the truth behind the Japan bashing is important.
"bashing America" is better for Japanese than Japan vs china
- 30 Apr 2007
- 1,173
- 84
Some interesting points here. I think another of the main reasons Japan has always been so ingratiating to the US is because they still rely a lot on the US for regional defence against countries like PRK and China. Politically speaking, so long as Japan permits US military footholds in the region and allows tracking of foreigners entering the country, they'll be in America's good books regardless of public grumblings.
That being said, in America's bid to balance itself against emerging China, it does need Japan in the sense that it wants a solid ally in the Asian-Pacific, especially since they are G8 comrades as well. Overall I think Japanese-American political relations aren't really affected by any of this 'bashing' business, it's just social mud-flinging as it's always been.
gaijinalways
puzzled gaijin
- 15 Jan 2006
- 681
- 21
Hardly a shift, thanx for nothing.
Megumi Kimoto
No longer posting
- 7 Jul 2008
- 26
- 3
On JREF, I've read some negative but well-researched comments about the actual living standard in Japan. I thought those comments were true. After reading them, I got depressed because, as a Japanese, there is nothing I can do to improve the situation anytime soon. But after a couple of days, I felt stronger. Exposure to truth makes a person stronger, I think.
kireikoori
Sempai
- 3 Aug 2007
- 264
- 7
Sometimes I've felt compelled to say every single bad thing I've ever heard a person say about Japan at Japan related forums just so the users will accept me and not tell me I'm "delusional and need a wake-up call".
Bashing is not good. Bashing is hateful.
Constructive criticism that is done with sympathy and tolerance is okay, but outright hate is not acceptable. No matter how many Japanese Only signs there are or whatever, it doesn't make it right to become Japanophobic in return.
I do not believe in cultural relativism and saying all cultures should be equal in a person's eyes. But there's a difference between a little bit of cultural preference for your own country, or whatever, and outright intolerance.
I think a lot of things about Japan are better than the United States. And I like a lot of things about Japan better than the United States. The things I hold dear enough to me to want to live in a place are in Japan though, so I would like to live there. Or at least, stay much longer than before. I know good and well I can't convince anyone I want to stay in a country unless I've lived there several years. But believe me when I say I want to stay longer and I don't know if it may end.
You know, when I hear some people talk about Japanese as a minority oppressor the way they do, I'm reminded of black nationalists who would always distrustingly talk about white people and say that we have a conspiracy against them. It's as if I was reading the Protocols of the Elder of Zion, except directed against white people and not Jews. And I'm uncomfortable with those black nationalists, who think I'm bad just because I'm the majority of my country. You know, I consider those black nationalist racist, even though all they did was victimize themselves. It's uncomfortable, and it feels racist. And that's the way a lot of people who talk about Japan sound to me. I don't want to sound like a white version of those black nationalists.
Bashing is not good. Bashing is hateful.
Constructive criticism that is done with sympathy and tolerance is okay, but outright hate is not acceptable. No matter how many Japanese Only signs there are or whatever, it doesn't make it right to become Japanophobic in return.
I do not believe in cultural relativism and saying all cultures should be equal in a person's eyes. But there's a difference between a little bit of cultural preference for your own country, or whatever, and outright intolerance.
I think a lot of things about Japan are better than the United States. And I like a lot of things about Japan better than the United States. The things I hold dear enough to me to want to live in a place are in Japan though, so I would like to live there. Or at least, stay much longer than before. I know good and well I can't convince anyone I want to stay in a country unless I've lived there several years. But believe me when I say I want to stay longer and I don't know if it may end.
You know, when I hear some people talk about Japanese as a minority oppressor the way they do, I'm reminded of black nationalists who would always distrustingly talk about white people and say that we have a conspiracy against them. It's as if I was reading the Protocols of the Elder of Zion, except directed against white people and not Jews. And I'm uncomfortable with those black nationalists, who think I'm bad just because I'm the majority of my country. You know, I consider those black nationalist racist, even though all they did was victimize themselves. It's uncomfortable, and it feels racist. And that's the way a lot of people who talk about Japan sound to me. I don't want to sound like a white version of those black nationalists.
- 20 Aug 2003
- 4,910
- 416
So, what is your take on the discrimination that goes on against foreigners in Japan? Is it not worthy of recognizing? Take a peek at www.debito.org for a glimpse of the many topics there on this issue and tell me such discrimination doesn't exist in Japan.
