If you WILL

[nekocat]

If you will keep littering here, they will leave here.

Hi. Do you think this kind of using "will" a little strange other than for British English speakers?

 

[undrentide]

Hi nekocat san,

I always enjoy your posts about English grammar...
If I remember correctly, I was taught at school that one cannot use "will" in the "if-clause". (Sorry I don't know a lot of grammatical terms...)

I'm also looking forward to what native speakers of English would say.

 

[epigene]

Personally, I don't feel it's wrong, though my English language study has been based on American rather than British English.

It seems to be OK in UK English, as shown here.
BBC World Service | Learning English | Learn it

 

[Kinsao]

In British English, that kind of use of 'will' tends to be for extra emphasis. For instance, in the sentence you have written, you put 'will' in italics; well, that's almost like the way it would be spoken - with the emphasis on the word 'will'. For example, if you said, "If you keep littering here, they will leave here", that is more of a statement of fact, although with an undertone of disapproval. Whereas if you said, "If you will keep littering here [emphasis on the 'will'], they will leave here", it's a kind of... how to describe... dismissive phrase (as though the speaker doesn't really expect the person to stop littering) almost like it could be accompanied by a shrug - imagine it ^^, yet at the same time a little bit more emphatic because it has a 'this is your last warning' feel to it - like "If you will keep littering here..." - *shrug* - "there's not a lot I can do about it so I'll let you go your own sweet way but be warned, they will leave..."

 

[Geostigma]

If you will keep littering here, they will leave here.

It sounds to me that the person saying this sentence is almost asking the person to keep littering so that the people will leave. Kind of like saying "If you will...", or "Will you?". But if that's not the intention of the sentence it would have made a lot more sence to simply say "If you keep littering here, they will leave.", implying that the speaker is warning the person that his actions will result in everyone leaving. Also, saying here twice so close together like that sounds a bit redundant to me.

 

[nekocat]

As Kinsao mentioned, "will" is not abbreviated in "If you will smoke twenty a day, it's not surprising you have a hacking cough." (=insist on)

Here I'm again reminded the ambiguous nature of language! The usage Geostigma mentioned is the last one in the BBC page epigene provided.

I learned here a lot!

 

[pugtm]

i know why its bugging me when i look at it. Its in passive voice. You generally use passive voice very rarely. Also the here at the end is redundant. The correct way is "if you litter here, they will leave" so its very unlike Japanese in its directness. Remember neko-san if you need to say or ask something do it directly.

 

[nekocat]

Excuse me, which is the passive voice?
I don't remember asking something indirectly.

 

[pugtm]

"If you will keep littering here" is passive of course i might be mistaken but i think im right.

 

[undrentide]

Could you please elaborate, pugtm san?
I thought passive is "be + past participle" - "If here keeps being littered by you" for example?

 

[Geostigma]

I thought passive is "be + past participle" - "If here keeps being littered by you" for example?

That's right. Passive voice is making the object of an action into the subject of the sentence. Another example:

Active voice: Why did the chicken cross the road?

Passive voice: Why was the road crossed by the chicken?

 

[pugtm]

ok i was wrong and i apologize but something is bugging me about that sentence and i don't know what it is.

 

[Mars Man]

My guess, on what's bugging you about that sentence, pugtm san, is that it is a sentence that more likely than not most English speakers will come across only once--at most--in their lives. It's simply such an unused style of emotional play in word choice, that it may well stike some sort of emotional discord (subconsciously) in the minds of some.

The beauty in the word choice, however, is that it shows that 'tool' that language is--which also highlights the strength of pragmatics.