How many Kanji do you know?

[Vinylhoer]

I recognize about 250 kanji, but I know the reading and stroke order of only a few.
I use the white rabbit press kanji flashcards to learn them, but unfortunately I'm almost through the first set and they are not going to publish the next set until next spring. But I guess that will give me time to focus more on the readings and compounds

 

[Glenn]

It's funny to me that my group (1000-1500) is the second smallest, behind the 300-399 group. Why do so few people know that number, but there are 9 of us who know above 1500?

 

[PaulTB]

It's funny to me that my group (1000-1500) is the second smallest, behind the 300-399 group. Why do so few people know that number, but there are 9 of us who know above 1500?

My guess is that below 1000 people are still slowly adding kanji in order to read 'real Japanese' while above 1500 people have enough to read 'real Japanese' and consequently can slack off on learning extra kanji.

1000-1500 is a sort of no-mans land - just beginning to approach enough for everyday Japanese kanji usage at the low end. I suspect once you get significantly over 1000 your reading material suddenly starts to take off and you learn the next 500 kanji relatively quickly until you hit the 'Meh, that's enough kanji for me' group at 1500+.

Of course I have no proof of any of the above and I've just thrown it together on a whimsy. The real answer is probably "Totally random variation which just shows up more because it's a relatively small sample size."

 

[mad pierrot]

Of course I have no proof of any of the above and I've just thrown it together on a whimsy. The real answer is probably "Totally random variation which just shows up more because it's a relatively small sample size."

Funny! However, I bet you're right.

 

[MtoM]

日本語が読めば、Paul's ramblings in Japaneseに行ってくださいね。
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why didn't you use (yomereba) ??

 

[PaulTB]

日本語が読めば、Paul's ramblings in Japaneseに行ってくださいね。
===========
why didn't you use (yomereba) ??

Good question. I'll let you know when I come up with a good answer.




.... I've got nothing.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Honestly, I have no idea. What is the standard for "knowing" a kanji? That you can read it? That you can read and write it? I don't know the answer for either standard, but I know for certain that there's a gap. (Perhaps now it's obvious that I didn't take the time to read all of the posts on this thread... )

I know for certain that I can read a Japanese newspaper without difficulty. I can read many books without too much difficulty in terms of kanji.

BUT

Truly, the more I learn, the less I seem to know. Knowing kanji in isolation is nice and all, but knowing what combinations mean seems much more practical to me. I have a book of 4 character phrases, and I know so few of them...

 

[studyonline]

Honestly, I have no idea. What is the standard for "knowing" a kanji? That you can read it? That you can read and write it? I don't know the answer for either standard

漢字の読み書きのできる能力は、日本人がその人の学歴 を見る基準とでも言うべきほど、広く一般的に知られて いる事実です。 私がまだ、受験勉強という非人間的、 拷問的な孤独な戦いの中にいた時、ほとんど毎日という ほど、漢字の復習を欠かしませんでした。

If I remember right, somewhere around 1,000 Kanji's are so-called 常用漢字, which basically let you read Japanese newspaper with no problem-supposedly. Most 1,000 Kanji's are learned in elementary schools in Japan. So I guess I "used to" know easily 3000-4000 of them...I think.

It was actually almost a shocking fact that I could (?) recognize so many of them. I didn't even know the first 240 of them are for 1st and 2nd graders.

そんなに沢山の漢字をだだひたすらと覚えまくって過ご していたとは、全く気が付きませんでした。

I have a book of 4 character phrases, and I know so few of them...

いわゆる四字熟語ですね。 確か私も、四字熟語一覧表 を用いてよく勉強しました。 その学習の楽しさは、時 として見られる独特の漢字の意味と格言的な教訓です。 Knowing them is probably beyond knowing Kanji's in my opinion. Well educated people know many, but you can still live in Japan without them.

 

[Takakoo]

I define "knowing" as being able to write the kanji as well, so I'd say about 150 kanji for me.

In an off topic question; what is the best order to learn kanji in, given that I am in a non-Japansese-speaking environment? There are so many indecies there (just look at Jim Breen's WWJDIC!), it can become very confusing.
* * *
I have the Reading and Writing Japanese kanji dictionary (second edition), which uses the Sakade index.

 

[Gaijinian]

I know about 1200? (still so many more to learn... ) Voted in the wrong place... ☝

 

[crunch]

Voted 500-1000, know about 800 or so, I'd say. I can probably only write around 500 of those with ease however and my vocabulary with their compound usage could use some definite work. I agree in full with mad pierrot calling this stage "kanji no man's land" as it's so close yet so far. Oh well, must keep at it.

 

[4321go]

I am pool .... ，I can only speak some everyday Japanese. can't write or read~ What a pity . I really want to learn Japanese.

 

[Index]

I use the white rabbit press kanji flashcards to learn them, but unfortunately I'm almost through the first set and they are not going to publish the next set until next spring. )

Why don't you make them yourself? It's easy, just use a word processor to write them, kanji one side, kana on the other, print, get them laminated, buy a cheap guillotine and cut them up. Cheap, fast, and easy.

 

[Davey]

Haha, I am a beginner to Kanji. I can write about 15, but I can read about 40 I think.

 

[Mike Cash]

Hey guys I was wondering how much Kanji you knew.. thanks.

Add one more to the list of teenagers who was burning white hot with a passion to move to Japan and live forever-n-ever-n-ever-n-ever and subsequently burned out and dropped out of sight.

 

[Davey]

Add one more to the list of teenagers who was burning white hot with a passion to move to Japan and live forever-n-ever-n-ever-n-ever and subsequently burned out and dropped out of sight.

What does this have to do with the topic?

 

[jonathancameron]

It's funny to me that my group (1000-1500) is the second smallest, behind the 300-399 group. Why do so few people know that number, but there are 9 of us who know above 1500?

Also, this stat is so crude! You need to have this also rated amongst foreigner, Nikkeijin, and Japanese national. Since if the 9 are all Japanese nationals it would be a pointless observation. What is it for a Japanese national to get a JLPT 1? I expect a nikkei to get there in less than a year, even if he started from zero. It would take me over 4 years.

 

[Mike Cash]

What does this have to do with the topic?

Nothing, really. I just saw the name of who started the thread and noticed that another shining star had burned itself out.

Back on topic: I know several kanji.

 

[jonathancameron]

I am pool ﾂ…ﾂ…ﾂ，I can only speak some everyday Japanese. can't write or read~ What a pity . I really want to learn Japanese.

You being chinese, you will learn Kanji with speed of lightening. I might have 4 years on you, but come around christimas time, if you start, you could have me beat. I can read and recognize 1500 characters, but I write these kanji characters by hand very slow, and forget the strokes so fast. I bet I would be lucky to produce 250 kanji if I had to write it by hand. Thank god the JLPT is multiple choice for many kanji. The Japanese have to write in their Kanji Kentei and get a blank. In my class, we get a box to choose the kanji from, but the Nikkeijin get a test where they get nothing to choose from, and have to write the kanji by hand. They are also required to write the vocab we learn in Kanji, or they get no marks, whereas we get half for writing it in hiragana, and another for kanji. For translations, we don't need to produce it in Kanji, but the Nikkeijin have to produce the many of the words in Kanji when translating from English to Japanese.
I am surprised that none of the Nikkeijin have reported this as an act of discrimination. They accepted the fact that since we don't have a native track that is separate from us, at our university, the teacher has to do this to make the best of the situation.
The teacher smiles at me lots and tells me, well done, etc. Usually if the nikkeijin has the same grade as we do, they are often much better, and they only got a lower grade because they are marked harder. It is like playing a videogame where the difficulty is put on medium for us, and difficult for the Nikkeijin. Also, the teacher gives the caucasian students a bit of a break with the kanji and gives us a bit of a break with translation, since we have the same standards as the koreans and the chinese. So far, it is only made harder on the Nikkeijin, but it should be improved to be three tierd for the caucasian students to not compete with chinese and koreans who time and and time again prove to be faster at learning Japanese.
It is still like having an Italian taking spanish, when you are Tibetan.

The Langage departments need to make language acquision more level, and this game of golf handicaps are only put on the native speakers, and Nikkeijin. This I feel is not good enough.

 

[jonathancameron]

Honestly, I have no idea. What is the standard for "knowing" a kanji? That you can read it? That you can read and write it? I don't know the answer for either standard, but I know for certain that there's a gap. (Perhaps now it's obvious that I didn't take the time to read all of the posts on this thread... )
I know for certain that I can read a Japanese newspaper without difficulty. I can read many books without too much difficulty in terms of kanji.
BUT
Truly, the more I learn, the less I seem to know. Knowing kanji in isolation is nice and all, but knowing what combinations mean seems much more practical to me. I have a book of 4 character phrases, and I know so few of them...

For us Hakujin, just to be able to read it, and pick it out on the Word IME multiple choice when using windows. For the Japanese, and Nikkeijin, to be able to write it and natually. You might feel that this may be discrimination, but it is the Japanese who decided this amongst themselves. They really are upset with Brazilian nikkeijin and kikokushijos not trying to learn Japanese. The ones that are Issei and are passport holders are given the worst of this, as they are put through "gaijin hakashi" to help this chuutohampa no nihonjin rehabilitate as a Japanese in accordance to the Nihonjinron.
I will forever be pardoned as a Okyakusama and can always pull the gaijin card, but those kikokushijos are told they have a "sekinin" to enculturate themselves and rehabilitate. They have giri to do this, we dont. Language aquisition is one of their duties. I know one fellow who really learned it at record time and I was jealous of him, but this jealousy turned to feeling sorry when I discovered that his father would slap him and give him the "oofukubintan" if he lost to me on a test. (Little the father knows that they are simply marked much harder for the same grade, and the grading is adjusted.)

On reading where we get graded for pronounciation, they get graded how "surasura" they read the stuff. They are also not allowed an electronic dictonary to bring to the exam, whereas we are, along with 1 page of cheatsheats.

 

[Mike Cash]

The soft bigotry of low expectations rears its ugly head.....

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

For us Hakujin, just to be able to read it, and pick it out on the Word IME multiple choice when using windows. For the Japanese, and Nikkeijin, to be able to write it and natually. You might feel that this may be discrimination, but it is the Japanese who decided this amongst themselves. They really are upset with Brazilian nikkeijin and kikokushijos not trying to learn Japanese. The ones that are Issei and are passport holders are given the worst of this, as they are put through "gaijin hakashi" to help this chuutohampa no nihonjin rehabilitate as a Japanese in accordance to the Nihonjinron.
I will forever be pardoned as a Okyakusama and can always pull the gaijin card, but those kikokushijos are told they have a "sekinin" to enculturate themselves and rehabilitate. They have giri to do this, we dont. Language aquisition is one of their duties. I know one fellow who really learned it at record time and I was jealous of him, but this jealousy turned to feeling sorry when I discovered that his father would slap him and give him the "oofukubintan" if he lost to me on a test. (Little the father knows that they are simply marked much harder for the same grade, and the grading is adjusted.)
On reading where we get graded for pronounciation, they get graded how "surasura" they read the stuff. They are also not allowed an electronic dictonary to bring to the exam, whereas we are, along with 1 page of cheatsheats.

I am as white as the next white-guy, and let me tell you, if you truly believe what you wrote, then you are just making excuses for yourself.

Let me tell you that when I took college level classes in Japan in Japanese, I was never allowed a dictionary nor a "cheat sheet".

Whenever I have ever had to write anything in Japanese for work, nothing less than perfect Japanese was ever acceptable.

If you are content with only being able to pick out a kanji from an IME, then you will never progress further than that.

And I feel obliged to tell you that as a youth, I was under pressure to learn German. This is not purely a nikkei phenomenon.

 

[jonathancameron]

Yes, but them Nikkei are so unbeatable! I envy their speed in this linguistic aquisition, and the way they learn to write Kanji like some chinese dudes. They even learn to write kusushi, I certainly have not. The Nikkeijin do get a harder time in our school, Mikawa, how about at your university? Don't tell me that them Nikkeijin were given the same treatment as you were! Also, when I ask the Ritusmeikan exchange students to help me, they do it for free as I pull the gaijin card saying I can't possibly do this on my own without their Japanese help. Seeing how hard these 3rd year textbooks are that look like grade 9 to them, they can't believe that they make us study it to this level, and feel only compassion. I hope Japanese employers will be forgiving saying "済みません、私は白人なのでこんな難しい漢字なんかあ ｻう刊単に学べないので、読めるだけでもさすがだと思あ ﾁて、許してくださいませ。 でも、私は白人としてはあ 緕閧ﾆ思いませんか。" And they will be more forgiving to me than some Kikokusha who they have little patience for learning Japanese. I have been used as an example by few Japanese parents, and I even told their parents. 済みませんけれども、私でも白人としてこれぐらい出来 るのですから、貴方の子供様に私よりも日本語を出来な いと情けないじゃないですかと言って、私は、よく日本 人達に言います。そして、そうですねとしか答えないで 、恥をかきたくないから、緊張をしながら、僕を抜いて がんばります。 僕に負けてそれでも日本人か！と僕は 述べます。
It makes them work super hard. Nothing makes them work harder than seeing hakujinsama do better than them, and I say to them, and ask them if they still consider themselves Japanese in front of their parenets.

I have seen lazy Japanese students turn out spectacular. I am sure they will thank me in the end. I like to find humour in this as they have their prejudices to push that shame button and really get them going. I know how to make a Japanese work hard. Perhaps these parents should pay me to shame them into learning.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

Yes, but them Nikkei are so unbeatable! I envy their speed in this linguistic aquisition, and the way they learn to write Kanji like some chinese dudes. They even learn to write kusushi, I certainly have not. The Nikkeijin do get a harder time in our school, Mikawa, how about at your university? Don't tell me that them Nikkeijin were given the same treatment as you were!

In the classes I took, everyone was treated the same. There were no nikkei in my classes; everyone was Japanese except for myself.

Also, when I ask the Ritusmeikan exchange students to help me, they do it for free as I pull the gaijin card saying I can't possibly do this on my own without their Japanese help.

I'm sure you know my opinion of using the gaijin card.

I hope Japanese employers will be forgiving saying "済みません、私は白人なのでこんな難しい漢字なんかあ ｻう刊単に学べないので、読めるだけでもさすがだと思あ ﾁて、許してくださいませ。 でも、私は白人としてはあ 緕閧ﾆ思いませんか。" And they will be more forgiving to me than some Kikokusha who they have little patience for learning Japanese.

This would never have worked anywhere I have worked.

I see you strive for mediocrity. Godspeed, sir!

 

[Kid Chrono]

Well I've studied the reading and writing of over 2000 kanji, but I still need to do a lot more review before I could comfortably say I "know" that many. Due to not using them as much as I should(and having too small of a usable vocabulary) I also have a lot of trouble remembering how to write a lot of them on the fly as well. I would say I am comfortable with around 2000 kanji, and that's what I choose from the list. However, I still need a lot of work ^^'.