Harmony in Japan

I heard a lot about the Japanese idea of harmony or "wa".

I know it's the Japanese custom to hide their true feelings and keep opinions to themselves in the name of maintaining harmony.

What I want to know is your opinion of the concept of harmony in Japan.

Do you think it's to stifling and keeps issues from getting out into the open and discourages individuality? Or do you think it's a good idea not to express opinions to boldly, maintain the peace and avoid confrontation and to put the group before yourself?

Basically, I want to know what you think of "Wa" and it's role and effect on Japanese society. And how different is Japan compared with more informal countries?

Well, that Wa was definitely out of order many times. . .at least in relation to other countries.

MadamePapillon said:

I heard a lot about the Japanese idea of harmony or "wa".
I know it's the Japanese custom to hide their true feelings and keep opinions to themselves in the name of maintaining harmony.
What I want to know is your opinion of the concept of harmony in Japan.
Do you think it's to stifling and keeps issues from getting out into the open and discourages individuality? Or do you think it's a good idea not to express opinions to boldly, maintain the peace and avoid confrontation and to put the group before yourself?
Basically, I want to know what you think of "Wa" and it's role and effect on Japanese society. And how different is Japan compared with more informal countries?

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I am not sure Wa specifically maintains you must hide your feelings. The Japanese language itself seems to be vague, so there are ways to express your opinions and not offend people.

My wife doesn't like confrontation. It makes her "tired". If I am wronged I am all for confrontation. I think many Japanese should learn to do this, or they will continue to be taken advantage.

Being here though it sometimes is good to hold your tongue, you can still find a way to get things done.

Because of the Japanese many times dislike confrontation, I think Japan needs more lawyers. Alot of their rights get trampled on, even constitutionally guaranteed rights. But even the idea of "rights" seems to be vague here. The lawsuit against McDonalds for overtime pay is an example of why they need more lawyers. Now other companies have seen the ruling and are putting in place rules to pay overtime. It would be hard for regular employees to bring up such concerns with their company. I had this experience. Being the only foreigner, alot of my fellow employees would ask ME to approach management about certain issues. Since I literally fought with my manager every week. It was strange because personally we liked each other though. It was kind of weird.

I actually think this hamrony business causes huge stress related problems in the workplace in Japan.

Holding problems in, not discussing or trying to solve is a recipe for disaster.

Isn't the Japanese word called "Gaman", or does that simply mean patience and perserverance as opossed to the above?

MadamePapillon said:

I heard a lot about the Japanese idea of harmony or "wa".
I know it's the Japanese custom to hide their true feelings and keep opinions to themselves in the name of maintaining harmony.
What I want to know is your opinion of the concept of harmony in Japan.
Do you think it's to stifling and keeps issues from getting out into the open and discourages individuality? Or do you think it's a good idea not to express opinions to boldly, maintain the peace and avoid confrontation and to put the group before yourself?
Basically, I want to know what you think of "Wa" and it's role and effect on Japanese society. And how different is Japan compared with more informal countries?

Click to expand...

I know that Westerners Love Argument. Probably in that sense, Chinese and Koreans are the same as Westerners.

This is why Japanese want to keep distance from external world. Instead, we view their arguments and conflicts from TV and wondering why they are shouting each other.

Political scientist Samuel P. Huntington, said JAPAN is uniquely developed civilization with its long history of consistency. And I think he is right.
So please leave us alone.

Kyoto Returnee said:

I actually think this hamrony business causes huge stress related problems in the workplace in Japan.
Holding problems in, not discussing or trying to solve is a recipe for disaster.
Isn't the Japanese word called "Gaman", or does that simply mean patience and perserverance as opossed to the above?

Click to expand...

One would think so. But in the workplace they go for consensus. For example before meetings, they talk to each person before the meeting. They try to get you on the same page. When the meeting is held, everybody knows what will happen, they just make it official. Though this happened less and less, so it did improve.

NO one really wants to say something that would upset the shacho. So he receives little input.

I think the harmony thing causes stress in the social arena. Conforming to peer pressure. Caring what everybody else does. I tell my wife sometimes that just because everybody does it doesn't mean it is right.

We are the fruit of the society we have been brought up, and if we are not we are still in one way or another conditioned by the humanity.

So my point is there is not the right way but ways.

So is almost impossible to have the right balance, and there is not the rightest way, and even your way, everyone can only adapt to a certain degree.

In Japan they might not be confrontational at work, but like any Human they find a way to get rid of the stress, like anyone else, and if they/we can't eventually we cease to exist in a way we did not want, to slightly earlier than we planned.

Peace

I think it's a cultural thing and I actually appreciate the way that many Asian cultures including Japanese have this talking before angry issue.

I do find it a little overwhelming at times in Japan, but things are never always perfect per say.

I am well experienced on Thailand and they often say 'Mai Pen Rai' No worries) and 'Sabai Sabai' (Relax, take it easy)

In Thailand it really is paramount as the traffice jams make life and punctuality exteremley frustrating.

I was to cath a bus in Bangkok, it was around two hours late, and I was fuming. The lady next to me said 'Mai Pen Rai', 'Sabai Sabai', so I'm like, hey yeah.. OK.. I feel better now LOL..

I cannot speak for other western countries but I'm guessing the UK and US are very similar to Australia.

I had an aircoditioner cleaned the other day. The air conditioning man was very abrupt in pulling it all apart, crack, snap *OUCH* ..all good, or was it!

After he had departed our place, firstly, I cleared up the messa on the floor, and noticed a few plastic bits.

I slid the filter back in, and noticed was was not sliding in. It was actually cathching on the corner of a snapped of palstic guide!

The airconditioner casing was also filthy.. Great cleaning job!

Around five minutes later, the airconditioner started to make a loud clicking noise, similar to if you held a thin piece of flexible plastic against the inside fan..
I called the company up to complain.. The lady on the other end, immediately "protected" the workman, as if It was my mistake!

To make it worse, two days later I received a bill!

Now, I am sure in Japan, the company would have apologized immediately, and sent a tradesman back immediately, possibly with a box and present at the front door.

I do think communication in Australia is lacking, and people dislike taking the lead role, just in case.

I certainly agree somewhat with Astroboy as non Asian cultures tend to lean more towards arguing..

So it just goes to show. What a funny world we live in at times!

I think a little confrontation is good, it helps relieve stress and often gets the ball rolling on issues you have a problem with.

I wouldn't say non Asian countries are so pro-arguing but if definitely has a place in our society. Debate especially, friendly debate, in my opinion, often helps build stronger ties between people than constant agreeing and politeness.

The group mentality of Japan is good to the point where it doesn't become necessary to ignore your own thoughts and opinions to please the group. There is always that fear of becoming just another number, or something of a clone here, that's why I think we protect individuality more than Japan, we are afraid of losing ourselves.

It must be harder in such a homogeneous country that values the whole rather than the part to maintain a strong uniqueness. Probably the reason for the Harajuku girls and all that...

Pictures from the Water Trade

A very perceptive European writer came to Japan in the 1970's or 80's to live and work for awhile. He didn't bring Western prejudices to view this Asian society and was able to gain a lot of valuable insights. In his book, PICTURES FROM THE WATER TRADE, he writes:

"There seems to be a quality of sameness, a quality of being Japanese, which goes all the way from the surface to the core. Membership in the same community of thought and feeling, the reassurance that even in the privacy of his own thoughts, the individual experiences what is common to others, is just as important to Japanese as all formal, outward display of unity. This personal introversion of shared experience is how individuality is understood in Japanese society--a centripetal society--movement is to the center--to the uchi."

This, I think, is one of the best descriptions of what "wa" is.

You perhaps haven't lived here long enough to know that 'wa' is not the same for everyone. Your president's version of 'wa' and yours are different.

There's an old Japanese proverb, "The nail that stands out will get hammered down.".

Fukudome, who currently plays for the Chicago Cubs in the US, doesn't make a big deal of the racist t-shirts. This is WA?☝
http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/901817,CST-SPT-gordo18.article

Fukudome did not seem shocked.
''I knew I was coming to a different country, so I expected something like this,'' he said. ''Maybe not necessarily racial, but that anybody could take any context of my words and degrade me if they wanted to. But if I make a big deal out of it, it's not going to benefit me, so I'm not going to make a big deal of it.''

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Ocean Dude said:

A very perceptive European writer came to Japan in the 1970's or 80's to live and work for awhile. He didn't bring Western prejudices to view this Asian society and was able to gain a lot of valuable insights. In his book, PICTURES FROM THE WATER TRADE, he writes:
"There seems to be a quality of sameness, a quality of being Japanese, which goes all the way from the surface to the core. Membership in the same community of thought and feeling, the reassurance that even in the privacy of his own thoughts, the individual experiences what is common to others, is just as important to Japanese as all formal, outward display of unity. This personal introversion of shared experience is how individuality is understood in Japanese society--a centripetal society--movement is to the center--to the uchi."
This, I think, is one of the best descriptions of what "wa" is.

Click to expand...

i have to say that what this writer has written is absolutely true

there is this whole feeling of being "one" here and that has a good and bad side

it makes you a very patient person - but it also makes you a very immature person

the Japanese constantly say "Na" or "Ne" (for Tokyo) like they are subconciously agreed on that topic

the suicide rate is so high in Japan and stress levels are through the roof

People can't say no - I'm not on the same page as you..

they can't even add to the page - which is something I find very disturbing

the Japanese are also huge attention seekers

in any other country they would be regarded as very strange, socially inept human beings but in Japan aparently foreigners are the naive ones..

it's just very interesting - how can you know what someone is saying just because they should say so? that's why the women here are called yellow taxi's

Nobody plays team played sports?
what is the most important thing?

JapanAlex said:

that's why the women here are called yellow taxi's

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This is second post you referred Japanese women as " yellow taxi's or yellow cabs ",what does it really mean ☝:?

second?

itz meening ist that they are easy to lay

i didn't make the stereotype haha - it's something I hear from alot of the Yanks (as taxi's are yellow in the U.S obviously)

I am not insinuating that I agree with this (I am an aristocrate after all, lest we foget)

there is no white cub?