Comfort Women What do you think?

Which side do you believe regarding the "Comfort Women" issue?


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it is just a name, no Japanese think the sea belongs to Japan), etc...
Ok then in a gesture of goodwill and reconcilliation towards Korea for past wrongdoings how about Japan taking a huge step forward and letting the sea be named to what Korea wants.

The point is that it requires give and take on both sides, also straightforward recognition that this problem and others are major stumbling blocks to true peace and understanding in this region.

Unfortunately there is too much distrust about motives.


It might take some time to arrive at that goal - but: why not try?
I agree with this too.:-)
 
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The sentiments being, as they mostly appear to be, in agreement with that of my most recent post, I would then suggest that we discuss ways in which not only Japan--as a nation of people, as oposed to simply a governmental administration--but the whole world can set up the means to at least attempt to instill a fair standard of respect for all sexual orientations--meaning firstly, ALL peoples.

That would have to be on another thread, but I would encourage it. Strictly adhering to the OP of this thread, I'd be moved to think that this should be more so simply for voting, and, if one wishes, explaining the vote. I do not think that any more postitive up-building or practical advantage can come from the line of argument that has swollen up over a matter of historical blame. Let's keep this one for voting.
 
I agree with you here Mars Man, thanks for putting your thoughts here as well. :-)
 
so their testimoy's is needed in turn
you should bring a doccument of some forced comfort women's comments.
name, age and situation....
then i will give you a opinion.
i think all of their testimony are interesting that is exposed a lie.
thet changed their testimony so many times.
 
I appreciate your posting your thoughts and opinion there caster51 san. Now, if possible, I hope we can move on to the future. . . and not have to say old things again. MM
 
I believe that Japan owes an appology to China, and I also believe that China owes an appology to Japan. Japan knows why they need to appologize, China needs to appologize because they only brought up such bad things, not because they feel that now was the best time to clear up the issue, but because they wanted to slander Japans name, thus because of this, I will not be attending the olympics in Chana, unless they give a public appology, and ONLY if Japan also give China an appology first, (sorry Japan, i love you, but you do have to take responsability for these actions, I can't defend something I don't believe in, but I do believe you can do it!)
 
This is a problem that is occuring actually now.
at first, We should take attention to current problem rather than in the past.
Why do they disregard the problem of happening actually?
SEX TRAFFICKING / San Francisco Is A Major Center For International Crime Networks That Smuggle And Enslave / FIRST OF A FOUR PART SPECIAL REPORT
Today
Global sex trafficking is making inroads into the Bay Area
Sunday
"Diary of a Sex Slave," Part 1: Fooled by traffickers in South Korea
Monday
"Diary of a Sex Slave," Part 2: Trapped in Los Angeles
Tuesday
"Diary of a Sex Slave," Part 3: Trying to break free in San Francisco
there are 40,000korean prostitutes in Japan.
so is in USA.
korean gervenment should get them back first.
 
there are 40,000korean prostitutes in Japan.
so is in USA.
korean gervenment should get them back first.
It is really important that you bring this point up (although it is slightly off-topic, I think it is still important to discuss).

Slavery is illegal in the United States, and has been since the Emancipation Proclamation during the Civil War. However, it still continued into the 1900s, mostly through prostitution. This is one of the reasons prostitution is illegal in most of the United States.

The FBI has a tough time cracking these prostitution slavery rings, but they do, sometimes. The slavery exists under the pretext of indentured servitude these days, but sometimes (especially in the case of prostitutes) it came about through abduction. In all cases, the "slaves" are considered illegal immigrants, although they are not necessarily at fault. Some (especially in orange groves and other plantation-style situations) were promised a life of freedom in America as soon as they "paid their debt". Much of this is referred to as "human trafficking", and it is estimated that just under 1 million people are transported across borders worldwide every year (an estimated 14,000 of those are into the U.S.)

Nevertheless, this sort of thing is considered absolutely and positively illegal and is generally busted up by the FBI and INS when they get the opportunity. Reams and reams of paper with anti-trafficking laws and codes have been produced, but it seems that this is not something that is very easy to enforce, especially because it is not very widespread, despite the incredibly serious nature of the crime.

An interesting TV miniseries, Broken Trail, dealt with the "Wild" West and five Chinese girls sold into prostitution to a cruel madame in a northwestern mining town. The two heroes (played by Robert Duvall and Thomas Hayden Church) intercept the girls and pretty much try to keep them away from the madame's henchmen.

Anyway, this sort of things appalls me, and I find it sickening that slavery and human trafficking persists in my country, especially in light of the Civil War and the Emancipation Proclamation. That any human could profit from the suffering of others is an abomination and a violation of basic human rights.
 
GEL and Caster can I ask what do you two most recent posts have to do with the historical issue of the "Comfort Women" during WWII?
 
can I ask what do you two most recent posts have to do with the historical issue of the "Comfort Women" during WWII?
you want to get the past back again?
what do I think about Comfort woman?
comfort women during WW2" were prostitutes like that
It was better than today's.
if history is repreated and We must learna from History as you said, Today's phenomenon is a past repetition.
there is no progress for them
who has a ploblem Actually today.
who is repreating the same thing?
that is my though from comfort women during ww2.


until when was USA subjected by siocentrism?.
 
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it is very interesting
Quick Summary of "Comfort women


Comfort women#2_Why has this become the international issue?


obeika ,we should study more about that?
I think that is all.

窶凖ーツ身窶佚?ツ(Teishintai) is this one.

Amazon product ASIN 0801438543
General
My own knowledge of the Imperial Japanese colony originally came from two genres---the systematic detail in history books and the passionate stories of martyrs----and neither of these had prepared me for the gentle humor as my father -in -law recounted his early life page xi
The reader will notice that some lives are presented as full chapters and some are reflected in vignettes on a topic. This system developed because many people, it turned out, lived ordinary lives. Interview after interview began with sentences such as, "Nothing much happened to me. The Japanese people were not bad. We got along. It was the police that bothered us. I just stayed out of their way. ." However, these same people had small bits of salts and pepper tucked away in their interviews that, when gathered together, added dimension to the larger picture.pare 5
This is a largely different picture of Korea from the perspective we get from Korea as of now. Many people suppose that there is deep hostility between Japanese and Koreans esp with the older generation who remembers the occupation. And Koreans were supposed to live under severe oppression, and many were independent fighters. and pro-Japanese were exception. But the truth is that "nothing much happened" was the average response. I guess anti-Japanism as we know it now was largely made up in Korea after 1945
comfort women
(*I'll pick up the topic that interested me.)
Thousands of young, unmarried Korean women were mobilized into the Voluntary Service Brigade and told they would help the war effort as nurses or factory workers. Instead, they found themselves taken to "comfort stations" at the war front and expected to provide sexual services for the soldiers. if they refused, they were beaten and denied food. After the war, the shame of being a "comfort women" kept those women silent and only recently have they begun to tell their stories.
Most of the women who talked with us said they never heard of "comfort women" when they were young. "I guess it was because I lived in such an urban area" one said."They didn't collect girls in big towns " Others said they were too young to hear about it, or too removed from the mainstream. Our women hinted at another possibility---the girls simply never learned the truth until it was too late page 133
Note that most of the women interviewed didn't know it. And there are only two person s in the book that mentioned the comfort women. There must be also villagers among those interviewed. but there is no testimony who witnessed an woman abducted into the brothels. T
And it seems many Korean and this author are confused about comfort women with Teishintai.
ツ鞘?版スq窶凖ーツ身窶佚?ツ(窶堋カ窶堙・窶堋オ窶堙??堋「窶堋オ窶堙ア窶堋ス窶堋「ツ)窶堙債、1943窶扼窶堙俄?蕨ツ静昶?堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堋ス14ツ催射?按湘」25ツ催射?遺?ーツコ窶堙個鞘?板青ォ窶堋ェナスs窶卍ャ窶伉コ窶卍キツ、窶卍ャ窶愿?窶ーテッツ、窶「窶昶?版ス窶ーテッツ、窶「wツ人窶冂窶佚娯?懌┐窶堙娯?ケツヲ窶氾坂?堙俄?堙ヲ窶堙≫?堙?構ツ青ャ窶堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堙??堋「窶堋ス窶ケテ射廱窶「テイナスd窶冂窶佚娯?堙娯?堋ア窶堙?。ツ青ュ窶「{窶堙坂?披?壺?扼窶堙?944窶扼窶堙俄?卍コ窶氾溪?佚ヲ519ツ坂??窶堙ー窶堙?窶堙≫?堙?、ツ鞘?版スq窶凖ーツ身窶ケテ射廱窶氾溪?堙ーナ津カ窶「z窶堋オ窶堋ス窶堋ェツ、1945窶扼3ナ椎ス窶堙可坂?倪?督ッ窶ケテ射廱窶慊ョヒ?オ窶氾溪?堙俄?堙ヲ窶堙≫?堙??ケzナステサ窶堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堋ス窶堋ス窶堙溪?凖ーツ身窶佚?窶堙債坂?倪?督ッ窶ケ`窶忍ナ坦窶堙可催??「テ陳青ャ窶堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堋スツ。ナ?テ伉坂?倪?堙??堙才?藩??窶「w窶堙?債ャツ坂?。窶堋ウ窶堙ェ窶堙ゥ窶堋ア窶堙??堋ェ窶堋?窶堙ゥ窶堋ェ窶板シナステ停?堙坂?牢窶堋ュ窶堙娯?「テ岩?「ツィ窶堙??テ滅淡窶堙遺?堋「wiki
Translation
The woman Service Brigade is the voluntary service association set up in 1943 incorporation with mayors, town managers, and village headmen, a neighborhood association, village society, consisting of women from 14 to 25. The government promulgated the decree for the woman work force ( the decree 519)but the decree was absorbed in the national mobilization act in March 1945 and Teshintai was restructured into a nation voluntary army. In Korea, it is sometimes confused with comfort women, but they are completely different and have nothing to do with each other.
for further detail see this article(in Japanese)
This is clear if we read the following testimony.
Kim P[ANONYMOUS}....My aunt was only seventeen , but she had to hurry up and get married to avoid being drafted. It wasn't the "comfort women," but some sort of war effort group. If you were married, you didn't have to go.
So in her aunt's village it was not voluntary. It depends on when it happened.
But it is possible there were cases where woman "voluntary" brigade was forced in substance. But the point is their job is not sexual service but to work in factories.
The following also confuses Teishintai with comfort women.
.....
Kim PONGSUK...When I was twenty, the local Neighborhood Association.....came to verify my age and marital status.
I had no choice but to acknowledge that I was young, single, and living at home. The next thing I knew, the local police came and summoned me to appear at the elementary school yard on a certain date......They told us that the pay would be very good and we would be well taken care of....I hated this! I wouldn't want to go. My parents decided I should get married and then I wouldn't have to go. So I obeyed my parents and got married. ....Mush later I found out that the women who went overseas to the front were forced into being comfort women. Japanese called these Teishintai, meaning "Voluntary Corps."
This is the story about Teshintai. But she said she found out they were forced into being comfort women. How much later did she find it out? About 50 years later when the media picked it up? or does she mistakenly relate the following episode to Teshinatai above?
She continues.
I also know about them because my husband met many Korean woman serving the soldiers i Manchuria when he was drafted into the Japanese army and sent to the front line. ......My husband, having just married me and missing me, and also seeing that these comfort women were Korean women of the same age as me, when his turn came to go in to them, his physical desire was there, but he kept thinking of me, and he didn't do it.
The men lined up outside barracks doors where the women were, and took their turn. The girl just lay there inside. Each man had a given amount of time, about seven minutes. If he wasn't out in time, the next man went right in and yanked him out. Each door had a long line of men waiting their turns. But when my husband's turn came,
he just couldn't go in and do it.
The woman, on the wall near her head, used chalk or a pencil to make a mark for each
solders she serviced. She thought she would be paid that way, but it turned out they were not paid anything at all. page 135
There was a comfort station, and Korean women worked there. The point is whether they were systematically abducted by Japanese troop as often alleged. So far, there is no evidence to support it;on the contrary, there is an evidence that Japanese troop regulated illegal pimps.
Other than that, there are three points to note in this recollection.
1 Korean men used the comfort station, though her husband might not have used it.
2 Comfort women were expecting that they would be paid.
3 If the comfort station was as described, the situation was horrible for the women.
It means not all the comfort stations are like the one described in the US report
about it in 1944.
 
obeika ,we should study more about that?
I think that is all.

Caster I am not ignoring you here, I am just not up to any deep discussions tonight. Sorry about that, I'll get back to you at another time about this.
 
Hmm i think during war things become blurry as to what is right and wrong. Did japanese soldiers rape women? comforts or not if they did thats wrong and not a war crime but a crime no matter what situation the country is in. Should the current people of Japan suffer for what happened more then 50 years ago? IMO unless its a soldier who is still alife and linked to it no they shouldnt. Lets get one thing clear IF it had of been on the other foot would Chinese or korean soldiers do the same, probably. War no doubt brings out the worse in men, soldiers boobytrap dead or wounded soldiers, torture others for information and bomb hospitals and places of worship just to make the enemy lose moral, heck many of the posters come from america i bet, a country who used the A bomb in a race of who Japan would surrender to them or the old enemy Russia. I think its Ok to judge others from the past while most of us have ever only known peace from our armchairs and have no room to judge. I feel the arguement of these comfort women is just one step of dissatified governments, if its not this they are talking about visiting the dead soldiers graves or denial of certain parts of history. Of course its hard to move on but using these things as political tools is something to be shameful of also. getting 8million isnt justice its getting paid off and if thats where their pioritys lay i cant symphais too much.
 
frostyg02uk,

You are right, I guess that I am the only one of this Forum who really was a war victim during WWII, that was when Japan did occupy the former Dutch East Indies, now Indonesia. My Dad and my uncle were killed by the Kempeitai. My mother came out of that war with psychical problems, it was through my indestructible optimism that she came through those years in our concentration camp.

And me too, I had to stand there in a line while Japanese officers looked us girls over and then took some of us to a brothel in Semarang. I know one of them.

You will not hear me blaming the whole Japanese nation, last of all the young ones, they have nothing to do with WWII, I only hope that they will read about it with an open and honest mind.

But I do blame the Japanese war criminals from during World War Two, they have been extremely cruel.

Last but not least; Compensations are okay for material loses during WWII, that includes, golden jewelery, houses, banking accounts, furnitures, you name it.
No one on earth can compensate me the death of my father through the Kempeitai. That is prohibitive!

Compensation for the "comfort women" ? Very painful!
 
The Semarang case was a horrible one, of which many adovocates claim it is the evidence, but it was an isolated example.
You know the brothel was closed down soon after the Japanese higher ranked officials knew the situation, don't you? (Of course, it was before the end of the war)
And it was horrible that soldiers concerned were persecuted in the local war criminal court. Do you need more blood?
 
Oh pipokun,
You told me that before and yes I did already know all about this trial.
And yes, the Dutch girls and women stayed there around 2½ in that brothel.
Yet, I am more than grateful that I wasn't one of them!

Pipokun, when one commits an offence, one gets persecuted.
Those young women and girls have been punished for a lifetime.

Your last remark; "Do you need more blood?" is childlike.
No it is worse, it gives me a look into the young Japanese hearts.
It shows bitterness, a sort of stubborness of not wanting to say: "We did wrong during World War Two".
You can then continue saying; "But I am from another generation and I believe in peace!"

I guess that you can't even believe me when I tell you once again:"I came out of that horrible war without any feeling of hatred towards the Japanese people". I am standing very far above any form of hatred pipokun, so no thank you "I don't need more blood" but I would like some understanding for those poor girls and young women, today called "comfort women". And not only for the Dutch girls because they were Europeans, no for all the poor girls
who were abused during WWII.
 
It shows bitterness, a sort of stubborness of not wanting to say: "We did wrong during World War Two".
You can then continue saying; "But I am from another generation and I believe in peace!"

Just see the post-war Japan. According to tons of media, I am living in a far-right, ultra-militaristic or whatever country, but just count how many people Japanese soldiers killed after the war.
When you bring up your personal story (though I highly apprecieate your story) or you say the isolated example, the blame game will never end.
 
The thread is about çomfort women', but okay I shall try to answer.

While people and media never stop talking about the war crimes Germany commited, that same media in the world hardly ever talks about the Japanese war crimes.
But you mean that nowadays the 'comfort women' stories are hot item in the newspapers all over the world? That is about time, 62 years after WWII.

I can use my own war story, because I was there and could see everything with my own eyes. Don't need the media from 2007 to know what was cooking in those days.

I don't feel sorry for Japanese war criminals, nor for any other war criminals.
But I do feel sorry for the poor people in Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
I do feel sorry for the Japanese women and children who had hardly anything to eat during WWII, since most of the food went to the Japanese Army.

I guess that it is not done in Japan to blame grandfathers and great-grandfathers for what happened during the war. Better deny it all so that they can rest in peace.
 
thank you for your story elizabeth.


As for pipokun, you keep saying these horror stories are "isolated" examples. But they are not. The massacre of nanking is flat out denied by some ultra rightist, and those that admit that happened, merely point out that the generals involved did not have direct order from the government, and so it was only an "isolated" example. Unit 731, which is largely documented, were also an "isolated" example. Then, the "Death March" in the Philippines were probably another isolated example.

There are too many of these "isolated examples". Either way, japanese government needs to do what the germans have been doing. Build museums of the history, of the cruelty of japanese imperial army. They were quick in making two peace museums about the atomic bomb, but the government is still reluctant to admit their wrongdoings.
 
There are too many of these "isolated examples". Either way, japanese government needs to do what the germans have been doing.

Why your country does not play French or British roll?
It was your govenment who had kept silent to the public that she spent the money from Japan for your economic growth. Do you think it is fair? South Korea even demanded the North share because the South was the only legitimate govenment.

Elizabeth van Kampen, you probably know the Dutch government or any other European countries did not pay any compensation at all like what Japan did to Korea.
 
Elizabeth-san,
Japan paid 10,000,000 dollar to Dutch government in 1950s.
(It might be not easy for Japan to pay at that time.)
When Indonesia made independent, Dutch government demanded 6,000,000,000 dollars from Sukarno.
If you never received any money, you should make claim for payment in your government.

I've just read Rudy Kousbroek's "Het Oosindisch kampsyndroom".
(Japanese title is different from original's :ツ青シ窶ーツ「窶堙個植窶督ッ窶冢窶腕ナスツク窶堙??愿コ窶怒)
He was also a prisoner of Japanese army in Indonesia just like you.
He was a witness of Japanese brutal behavior and such...
However, his point of view is different from yours Elizabeth-san.
If you have a chance to read it, I want to hear from you how you think about this book.
 
Hallo Hanachan,

Rudy Kousbroek, yes I even have two books written by him.
He is a good writer, he is very intelligent and on many points I agree with him.
But not all camps were the same, I had the bad luck not to be in one of the better camps, like Kousbroek. Banyu Biru 10 was a prison, a very dirty prison.
Rudy Kousbroek is from a rich Dutch family who grew up in luxery on Sumatra.
His whole family came alive out of the war.
My family, the Van Kampen's were not rich at all, I was not brought up in luxery. I lost my father during the Japanese occupation.
Kousbroek could study after the war, but my mother did not have money enough to let me even finish highschool.

Now the Netherlands!
I am so happy you mentioned the big amount of money Holland received from president Sukarno. Holland had been occupied by Germany, there was a lack of everything, so president Sukarno's money has been used to build up Holland again. I don't mind that.
But don't forget that president Sukarno nationalised all the Dutch belongings,
also the bank accounts, that includes my Dad's savings.
The Japanese dollars had to be divided over 300 000 former Dutch East Indies people. Rudy Kousbroek didn't need the money, but my mother did.

But I am happy you mentioned all this. On the 8th of December 1941 the Netherlands declared war on Japan because of Pearl Harbor.
The people in the former D.E.I were certain that America would protect them especially the island Java. But no American troops came to us from the moment Singapore fell in Japanese hands. Mr. Churchill ordered that as from then on all the protection and army troops had to be send to Australia.

Holland was occupied by Germany, so the Dutch women and children had to stay in an unprotected Indonesia. The Dutch army was more like a police-army, keeping order on the islands.

This year, the 12th of January the
Dutch government has said that they will not pay us at all!!

The British, Australian, New Zealands, Canada's and Norway governments have paid their war victims each $ 20.000

The people coming from the D.E.I. paid the bill.

But that is just talking about money. I personally would be more than satisfied, even be happy with a letter from the Japanese government in the Dutch newspapers that there have been quite some war crimes committed in the former D.E.I by the Japanese Army, especially by the Kempeitai, towards innocent Dutch citizens.

Rudy Kousbroek was protected by his father on Sumatra, they were in the same camp.
I had to protect my mother and two younger sisters, all the responsibility was on my shoulders. I did not get the chance to learn Japanese, I had to carry heavy stones, work on the land with malaria, I was a slave.

But I am far more angry with Holland than with Japan!!!
 
Hm Elizabeth i think your a person to be admired. I never lost a single person from WW2 as my family are orginally from ireland or Australia one of which was neutral But i can say IF i was in your place i dont think i could be so forgiving (towards todays Japanese). I believe its good to forgive but im ashamed to say i dont think i could. Even more so if my family were a victim of hiroshima. When i went to Japan i was suprised to how well they took to americans and also american culture. At the time i asked my girlfriend how can the people of Japan act like this? i was almost angry. But she told me that the 2 cities being bombed was the price they paid for their war and for being the losers of that war. At the time i thought little of the answer but now i sit here and wonder. Did the women and children of Hiroshima burn in the streets because their generals were using comfort women? was that the price they paid? Even now babies are born deformed because of past DNA that was exposed to radiation. Governments pay millions and say sorrys to the expense of their pride but i think its only the people that suffer due to others ideals and ambitions. If i think of it in the sense of thousands disapearing into the heat in seconds because of their leaders it makes me want to cry. I feel if this is price they paid then its settled.
 
Elizabeth-san,
Thank you so much for your reply.
Sorry, I was impertinent to you sometimes.
I'm just starting to understand you.
I like hearing your stories.
Nice to see you here.
Thanks.

P.S.
I've been to Holland once. In 1995, I changed air plane for Muenchen at Amsterdam. 3 hours stay in your country, inside the airport. :)
 
I think most japanese think Netherlands in indonasia was more was crueller than japanese against Indonesian
 
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