Arabs in Japan!? OFFTOPIC about education and arrogance

[PopCulturePooka]

Hmm what about the rest of the world...we actually study more about the rest of the world, and also cover our own country's history.Knowing where Adalaide is on the map is a must as an Australian, but not knowing where for instance Belgium lies is kind of rediculous don't you think (I don't know if this is the case in Australia though)

You gotta admit, it is hard to find Belgium, all hidden away up there near Russia and Paraguay!


Actually while I have you, is it true that Belgium is the only European country completely visible from space at night because of a national ordinance that requires all streets have a certain level of lighting? Or was my teacher talking ****?

what the...that's stupid.

Makes sense, especially the sport one.
Consider.
Health and Physical Education is NOT just playing sport. You do roughly 2.5 - 3 hours a week for each subject in senior high school right? for HPE 1 hour is dedicated to practical (read playing sports). The other 1.5 - 2 hours is theory. Heavy theory. Things from anatomy and physiology, psychology, sport and culture, history, health etc. 75% of the weighting for the subject is based on the theoretical stuff. So you could suck at sport and still do quite well in the class.
Speech and Drama is not just acting plays. Theres a lot of theory there as well.

Here if you want to do another course you need to start over from year 1 again, except if the courses you already did are somewhat in the same league as the course you want to do, then you might have to take entrance exams or something to see if you can manage.But that's highly unlikely ! Going from 1st year X to 2nd year Y sounds pretty rediculous anyways to me.

Oh dude, you misinterpreted. You don't go from 1st year X to 2nd year Y.
You go 1st year X to 1st Year Y. Or 2nd year X to 1st Year Y. Its just quite an easy process to do, and the grades you got in your former course go a long way to improving your chances of entering the newer one.

Eg, like I said. After school, because of chemistry, I didn't QUITE have what was needed to do a bachelor of applied science. I did however easily meet the requirements to study Health Information Management (IE Hospital Records and everything around that). I did a year of that. During that year I studied a few units like Anat and Phys, Medical Fundamentals etc...
By the end of year, after breezing through the first year of HIM I applied to enter the BA Science. Even though I didn't have that High School chem requirement, my studies in HIM were considered instead and I easily had sufficient standards to enter BASci.
So I did. Starting from the 1st year again. It was only a year out of my life, no biggie. Oh and some of those subjects I did in HIM? Eg the Anat? Med Fundamentals? I could use them as credit subjects. In the first year of BASci there were a few quite similar subjects, but I didn't have to do them because I'd already studied some units in the year before in a previous course. So in my first Semester I only did 2 classes not 4. In Semester 2 I did 3/4.

That's like the English system then ? You can join a university depending on your highschoolgrades.If you mess them up, Cambridge for instance will be faaar out of your league.

Yeap, exactly. Depending on the courses popularity and the uni's prestige, the entry requirements from High School will be different. Eg to get into the science program at UQ one might need 2 sciences at an A level, Math and English at B. And a Overall Position grade (eg Uni entrance exam) rank of 5. But at the less popular and somewhat remote James Cook Uni you may only need B's in 1 Science, Math and a C in English. And an Overall Postion Grade of 10 (5 is much much better). Why? Because UQ is the better Uni and theres more competition for places.

If I were you I would have accepted the award, as you obviously (even without working for it) excelled in the course even without studying, that makes you smarter and makes you deserve it.It's not that only hard working people can win awards...at least that's how I look at it.

In the end what made my decision was the award was a bit of paper. And a fancy pen. Beyond looking ok on a resume it didn't stand for much. It couldnt have affected my entrance chances, my class ranking did that. Would have been forgotten about a few months later.

 

[Maciamo]

Actually while I have you, is it true that Belgium is the only European country completely visible from space at night because of a national ordinance that requires all streets have a certain level of lighting? Or was my teacher talking ****?

It is true that Belgium is the only country clearly visible from space (at night), but the reason is that all highways are illuminated at night (and you can never be more than 20 or 30km away from a highway anywhere in Belgium).

Health and Physical Education is NOT just playing sport. You do roughly 2.5 - 3 hours a week for each subject in senior high school right?

In my school in Belgium, subjects usually have 2 or 4h per week (no half hour at all), and by taking some options it is possible to have subjects with 5, 6 or 7h/week (usually sciences or maths). In fact, we do have many options, but contrarily to Australia where choosing one subject means eliminating others, most subjects are compulsory with a possibility to choose add weekly hours for our favourite subjects. E.g. we could have 2, 5 or 7h or sciences, and choose for example 3h of chemistry + 1h of physics and 1h of biology (or another setting). It is compulsory to have 2 or 3 foreign languages, but we can choose from about 7 languages, incl. Latin and Ancient Greek. Some people also do psycology or economics, but it's rare (geography already includes macroeconomics).

Oh dude, you misinterpreted. You don't go from 1st year X to 2nd year Y.
You go 1st year X to 1st Year Y. Or 2nd year X to 1st Year Y. Its just quite an easy process to do, and the grades you got in your former course go a long way to improving your chances of entering the newer one.

I think Rocklee misundersood you because in Belgium anybody can go to university and start again any subject as many times as you want (well, there was a period when you could only fail twice). What's more it's almost completely free (about 500 euro per year for registration), not like in the US or Japan where a single year can cost 300,000 euro.

 

[PopCulturePooka]

It is true that Belgium is the only country clearly visible from space (at night), but the reason is that all highways are illuminated at night (and you can never be more than 20 or 30km away from a highway anywhere in Belgium).

Interesting.
I really should dig up that National Geographic world map I have with the Earth from Space at night.

In my school in Belgium, subjects usually have 2 or 4h per week (no half hour at all), and by taking some options it is possible to have subjects with 5, 6 or 7h/week (usually sciences or maths). In fact, we do have many options, but contrarily to Australia where choosing one subject means eliminating others, most subjects are compulsory with a possibility to choose add weekly hours for our favourite subjects. E.g. we could have 2, 5 or 7h or sciences, and choose for example 3h of chemistry + 1h of physics and 1h of biology (or another setting). It is compulsory to have 2 or 3 foreign languages, but we can choose from about 7 languages, incl. Latin and Ancient Greek. Some people also do psycology or economics, but it's rare (geography already includes macroeconomics).

I like that system a lot.

What we had were five to six 35 minute lesson periods. We would generally do two 'doubles' and a single per week for each subject'. A day generally had 8 periods. Although as I understand it now, things are a bit different.

And Latin? In schools? *faints*

Learning Latin was the only reason I stayed awake in Medical Terminology.

I think Rocklee misundersood you because in Belgium anybody can go to university and start again any subject as many times as you want (well, there was a period when you could only fail twice). What's more it's almost completely free (about 500 euro per year for registration), not like in the US or Japan where a single year can cost 300,000 euro.

Ditto here.
Its set up so that the only real determining factor to go to uni is your grades. Socio-economic status has no bearing. The poorest student can go to the best uni (barring private ones, which aren't that popular or great) if they get the grades. You can also change and change as much as you want.
What happens here is HECS. The government will basically pay for your tertiary education in the form of a loan. Then, after you graduate and find a job over a certain income threshold (I THINK $32,000 a year) you start to pay back the loan in the form of a higher tax on your salary.
So if you do chop and change a lot, the HECS debt you repay is higher.
Its not an unreasonable system at all, works quite well really as you wont be disadvantaged if you can't find a decently paying job.

Of course the right wing conservative government wants to scrap the scheme and go back to a user pays system, meaning the rich kids can go to uni, the poor kids luck out.

 

[sabro]

This is all fascinating...all the different school systems. I am sitting in my office- I'm a new high school assistant principal, looking at the variety in the manner of instruction and the curriculum- I still can't picture the Belgian or the Aussie sytems- the hours per week sounds more complicated- in California we just have six or seven periods per day- one hour each. (Some schools have block scheduling.) Somehow in California, we left geography entirely out of the curriculum. Go figure.

My son has an excellent GPA (3.5) and good SAT scores (about 1200) but he probably can't get into a top college (UC system). He can get into the Cal State system. We also have many expensive private colleges and the community college system which is inexpensive and non-exclusive.

 

[Mycernius]

I was wondering, I did notice that some Europeans I've have wonderful knowledge of history, geography and other subjects. So, I was wondering, how do Europeans measure intelligence?

We have wars. That way we get rid of all the dumb people

 

[Maciamo]

What we had were five to six 35 minute lesson periods. We would generally do two 'doubles' and a single per week for each subject'. A day generally had 8 periods. Although as I understand it now, things are a bit different.

In my school in Belgium, we had 32 to 34h/week in total depending on the year and options. So 7 or 8h/day, except Wednesday when it was only 4h the morning. "1h" was actually 50min.

And Latin? In schools? *faints*

Most Europeans school still teach Latin and Greek - ask Thomas, who had 6 years of Latin in Austria. Up to the 1970's or 80's about half of the people chose Latin (Latin + Maths, or Latin + Greek) in what is called "grammar schools" In the UK. Nowadays, fewer people learn Latin and Greek. In my school, about 1/4 had Latin for 6 years and 1/8 had Greek for 4 years. Modern languages and sciences are now much more popular.

 

[kirei_na_me]

My high school offered Latin when I was there, and still does, I think.

 

[thomas]

Most Europeans school still teach Latin and Greek - ask Thomas, who had 6 years of Latin in Austria.

Seven years in fact, and I haven't regretted it a single day.

 

[Ma Cherie]

I'm surprised that some of you never had Geography in your school ciriculum. I had taken Geography my seventh year of middle school, and I know some high school freshman had taken Geography. Strange. ☝ That's cool that you learned Latin, thomas. Nowadays Latin and Greek are offered at the university level. I also had to take two years of French to get into the University of Missouri Kansas City (UMKC).

Oh, well I guess alot of schools are different.

 

[sabro]

I had geography back in the seventh grade.

I'm currently looking through the California Frameworks for all the different subjects- and social sciences has World, US and California History, Economics and Principles of Democracy. These are the guides that set the stadards and outline the curriculum that we teach. There are geography components but no specific study of lands, cultures or people. We have a geography elective. The science framework leaves out dinosaurs.

Our school does not have any courses in Latin. We have Spanish and French, but also no German. (We could actually have a Native American languages class if the kids want it.) Students are encouraged to take two years of a foreign language. It is a UC requirement, and may one day be a graduation requirement.

 

[Ma Cherie]

What about anything that involves the arts? I know most of you may have taken an art class, music classes, and perhaps even theater. I've been taking these kind of classes throughout my school career, and mainly because I went to a performing arts school. You had to major in something like, music, vocal music, creative writing, theater (which is what I majored in) and visual arts. Goodness, some of my friends who were visual art majors took some cool classes, like ceramics. Well anyway it was fun being in plays, I was in a play called The Tap Dance Kid. But up until high school I had learn about Shakespeare and Old English. That was hard, but my acting teacher said we had to learn it.

Well I'm just blabbing about my school days. I'll shut up now. :sorry:

 

[Maciamo]

What about anything that involves the arts? I know most of you may have taken an art class, music classes, and perhaps even theater.

In Belgium, the arts and sports are usually extra-curriclar activities, so that each person can decide what kind of art and sport they want to do, and at what level. Music, drawning, drama, etc. are all popular, but not everybody like them, so only those who like do it on Wednesday afternoon or Saturday. Apart from football (soccer) and basketball, individual sports are the most popular in Belgium and thus difficult to play at school (tennis, cycling, martial arts, climbing...), although all schools have swimming, running, gymnastics, basketball and football in sports class from grade 1 to 12. There are however no inter-school tournament like in the US or Japan.

 

[sabro]

To graduate in California, you need to take a year of physical education and several fine art, industrial art or foreign language electives. You get to choose which ones, but you have to take a certain number. each one of our classes is roughly one hour per day, five days a week, twenty weeks in a semester. It adds up to ninety hours of instruction to earn five units and you need 230 units and passing scores on the exit exam to earn a diploma.

Lately we have been cutting back on home economics, drivers training and shop classes and adding remedial reading, study skills and test preparation classes. In high school, we no longer give math credits for any class lower than Algebra.

 

[lexico]

On education and arrogance

It's difficult to generalize all the teachers and professors I've had; I can only say they were as diverse as people outside the teaching profession. It would be nice if I could say that aggressive teaching and effective teachig had no correlation at all, but sadly the better informed and preceptive teachers tended to rely less on threatening methods and punishments, while yakuza drop out types who must have cheated their way into the school system were usually ignorant, unskilled teachers.

I have always loved the smarter ones for 1) the satisfaction of receiving their expertise 2) the general perceptiveness with which they understood various points of interest that either they provided or presented by me or others. Combined, the 'better teachers' were usually more successful in conducting a meaningful class, while the 'poorer ones' had nothing better to contribute often making them errupt for a microscopic offense.

There was one history teacher who was passionate, and gave heavy physical punishments for failed memorization of historical years. But despite the terror and hard work, I only remember one date from his class, and that has proven incorrect ! I would say having smarts is good, but letting passion take over reason is NOT the way to go.

This does not mean that a smart teacher was all happy and hippie; in fact they were by far the more discriminating of the details. An exceptional case when a gentle approach was applied to a bullshitting student who raised a truly dumb question; obviously the student hadn't done his reading, and naturally couldn't understand the lecture, but he was shameless enough to raise the question regardless.

I expected some amount of surprise, ridicule, or at least a formal warning to come to class prepared. Instead, the instructor took the dumb question as an opportunity to educate everyone. I could only admire the instructor's expert knowledge both in his field of study and in teaching skill. It taught me that ridiculing is not only a waste of everyone's time, but also destroying the opportunity to convey more understanding that was outside the planned lecture for the day.

I would say just having one detail being pointed out as inaccurate is enough cause for alarm for the original poster. But that could be related to my personality. I would think for the younger students, some pushing is inevitable because they are easily influenced by the environment-- heat, humidity, noise, games and whatnot. As for students in the higher teens and above shaming can often backfire.

 

[lexico]

http://tinyurl.com/ckb7a

Ostriches don't bury their heads in the sand at all...
when an ostrich can't run away, it lays down to make itself as small as possible, with their neck and head stretched out flat in front of them...
ostriches don't live in the sand dunes, they are native to African plains.

That sounds like a good case of myth-breaking, as are the case with the trochilus bird that supposedly cleans the crocodile gums of leeches or the crying crocks.

As it (the crocodile) lives chiefly in the river, it has the inside of its mouth constantly covered with leeches; hence it happens that while all the other birds and beasts avoid it, with the trochilus it lives at peace since it owes much to that bird: for the crocodile, when it leaves the water and comes out on land, is in the habit of lying with its mouth wide open, facing the western breeze. At such times the trochilus goes into its mouth and devours the leeches. This benefits the crocodile that is pleased and takes care not to hurt the trochilus.

This statement on thge trochilus bird by Herodotus was proven to be *incorrect observation. But what of the expression of burying one's head in the sand ? Is there a worthy substitute for this humorous and readily understood expression ? If nothing else suffices, there is the pheasant that is known to hide its head in a hole or in the bushes. I hope this doesn't prove yet another myth.

edit: *incorrect observation: My info appears to be outdated, and now there are claims to the contrary. Any opinions on the crocodile bird ? Is it imagined, real, extinct, or more than one species ? Or was the croc a mistranslation of frog ?

 

[Apollo]

Where I come from, people who want to study technical subjects can choose a technical orientation with more emphasis on practical (as opposed to theoretical) sciences, and fewer hours of arts, languages or others.

In Denmark, the educational system is the same as you refer to I think. After pupils have finished their secondary education, they can choose to enter one of the three types of high schools in Denmark – which all put emphasis on the theoretical sciences.
The first ﾂ"typeﾂ" of high school is the most popular, which puts emphasis on general upper-secondary education such as:

First Year:
PE (B-level)
Danish Literature (A-level)
History (A-level)
Biology (B)
Music (C-level)
Latin (C-level)
German/French/Italian/Spanish/Russian/Japanese (some few high schools offer Japanese) --- (all B-levels).
Maths (B-level)
English (A-level)
Physics (B-level)
Chemistry (B-level)

Second Year:
PE (B-level)
Danish Literature (A-level)
History (A-level)
Geography (B-level)
German/French/Italian/Spanish/Russian/Japanese (B-level)
Maths (B-level)
Physics (B-level)
One elective: Film, Biology advanced, Latin, Economics, political science, Astronomy, computer sciences, design, drama, philosophy, Ancient Greek, Media studies, and psychology.

Third Year:
PE (B)
Danish Literature (level A)
History (level A)
Religious studies (B)
Arts (B)
Ancient Civilisation (B)
And THREE electives, Two at A-level at least of the elective subjects above, including maths, physics, chemistry, and A-level languages :English, German/French/Italian/Latin etc.. (which were mandatory only in first and second years).

In general, of the FOUR elective subjects the students can take through their time at high school, THREE of them must be Advanced levels, and only the theoretical electives offer A-levels. I.e. one cannot take A-level in drama.

Of the electives I took political science with economics (A-level), English (A-level) computer sciences.

The two other types of high schools are:-Technical high schools (concentrating on engineering subjects, maths, physics, computer sciences), however, English and other teoretical subjects are taught too.
-Business high schools concentrating on economics, marketing, maths, (however, other subjects are taught too).

I don't threaten people like some of my teachers did. As I said it's not arrogance but strictness, which is necessarily in any good education system. I did learn more with strict teachers than with others.

I agree totally! My strictest teachers in high school and lecturers at university I had the highest respect for, and I learned more from them.
I remember we had a very strict lecturer during my undergraduate course – she had ﾂ"testsﾂ", and we were all so frightened of her that we always came prepared for her classes. The most funny thing is, we all did excellent at exams because we studied so hard afraid of failing her class.

 

[Apollo]

Oops!

Sorry for the double post, I forgot to mention that in Denmark, all schools are controlled by the Ministry of Education, who keeps statistics of all schools regarding grades during exams.
These statistics are made public on the Ministry's website, so parents/students can look their school up and compare with other schools in the country.
This in a way might make people think that the educational system is too controlled by the government in Denmark, however, I believe it is a good way of keeping track of all schools in the country. These statistics of course respect (or at least try to respect) the number of peers in each school, the private school vs. public schools etc., which might make the statistical data result in very differing results depending on cases.

This is only a generalised view of each school of course; e.g. a posh, private school with the best teachers in the country might have a class consisting of only troublemakers and lazy truants resulting in a bad exam results. However, it is a good guide, and very interesting that some schools in a specific geographical area do poorly - e.g. a part of Copenhagen which is known for its high crime rate and where less-resourced parents represent the majority of the inhabitants.

The troublesome effect this "guide", or publicised stats have is of course the fact that resourceful parents might transfer their children to another school with better grades too often, which might be miles away, resulting in higher transportation costs. One must not rely too much on the stats, but only as a guidance.

If you can read Danish, here is the link to the stats: http://www.uvm.dk/statistik/karakterer/skoler.htm?menuid=55

 

[sabro]

Each state in the US is in charge of its own schools. Most public schools belong to school districts that answer to local school boards.

California publishes a ranking and stats on every public school in the state (California Department of Education). Most schools also put out a school report card on the web.

Almost all the high schools in California are "comprehensive" high schools that present a broad curriculum designed to prepare students for college. To graduate with a diploma in the State of California you need to pass the California State Exit Exam- which tests proficiency in reading, writing and mathematics.

You also need 230 units- (56 classes) at five units per class per semester. Most schools have two semesters per year and summer school. Most students take six classes per semester. These are arranged in six one hour "periods" five days per week. Each semester course is about 90 hours of in class instruction. The courses look something like this:

English 8 semesters
World Civilization 2 semesters
US History 2 semesters
Government 1 semester
Economics 1 semester
Algebra and Geometry 4 semesters
Life Science 2 semesters
Physical science 2 semesters
Physical education 4 semesters
Visual or performing arts 2 semesters
Foreign language 2 semesters
applied arts 2 semesters
health 2 semesters
and electives 12 semesters

I hope someone finds this interesting.

 

[Pararousia]

We have wars. That way we get rid of all the dumb people

We have the Marines

It's always been amazing to me how posters can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on...
arguing one subject...sounds like verbal diarrhea to me

 

[lexico]

It's always been amazing to me how posters can go on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on...
arguing one subject...sounds like verbal diarrhea to me

Interesting point; whereas some arguments are concentrated on the topic, some like yours refer to the discussion itself--this meta-linguistic activity is only possible by beings capable of handling abstract symbolism as opposed to representative symbolism seen in the refelexes of an amoeba.

Another aspect unique to life and higher-order objects is creativity. What may appear as repetition when seen from a distance actually has a great deal of variation when seen in close view. Some physical objects show only the former as in chrystals, and some such as the wandering planets show both; regular elliptic orbit and small irregular perturbation, the latter often leading to the discovery of previously unknown planets in relative proximity.

In the case of code strings that make up this thread, the perturbations are what gives the individual world represented its individuality reflecting the respective culture and person. Given generally equal amounts of info and level of organization, it is much easier to participate in the debate than it is to decipher the product of debate-- and you are not alone in the struggle of code breaking. "What the heck are these people talking about ?" But when tge code is broken and the fine points are perceived then it become quite exciting to follow.

Verbal diarrhea is in fact good--what better way to release the congested information within the head, a book, or some remote server ? The opposite state of verbal constipation can often lead to isolation, frustration, antagonism, and even madness. Release the words and give them freedom !

 

[sabro]

I think my extended posts may be a by-product of mild obsessive compulsive disorder. For no good reason I not only have to throw in my whole two cents, but the rest of the dollar as well.

(Flip on the light...Wash my hands, flip off the light, flip on the light...Wash my hands, flip off the light, flip on the light...)

 

[Duo]

Interesting discussion. School is very important yes, but it is not the sole factor by which people can come to knowledge or ability or sucess or what have you. I feel sometimes we place too much of an emphasis on school and records instead of stopping for a second and taking a look at the person''s general abilities. Dubbya finished at Yale but look at his basic knoweldge, it probaply is less than that of an average graduate from a most mediocre university of any western nation, or eastern for that matter

And look at Churchill, from what i know he poorly finished his studies and he was one of the great leaders that saved Europe from Nazi Germany.

I feel lately school are sort of loosing their way and becoming places where kids feel more trapped and don't respect their teachers because they are either too old, or use old fashion methods. This is a serious problem here in Belgium. Between new young teachers and the old ones there is a rift on how to deal with the new generation. The ministry of education has already started to make reforms, but as long as teachers don't adapt into this new era and as long as students are not taught respect for the teaching profession we will have more problems

 

[Duo]

We have the Marines

That's not as funny as you think, a friend of mine who's very smart and bright is a marine and in Iraq right now......

 

[Maciamo]

Interesting discussion. School is very important yes, but it is not the sole factor by which people can come to knowledge or ability or sucess or what have you. I feel sometimes we place too much of an emphasis on school and records instead of stopping for a second and taking a look at the person''s general abilities.

I totally agree. I estimate that school and university combined have only taught me about 1/3 of everything I know, and not the most important. I'd say the most important things I have learned at school were to read and write, learn my mother tongue's grammar, mathematics, the basics in sciences, history and geography. Regarding foreign languages, over 80% of the 6 languages I have learned were learned outside school, mostly by studying by myself and living in the country. So school was really useless for that, eventhough my school was famous for foreign languages. Over half of my knowledge of geography and economics and 3/4 of my knowledge of history were learned by myself (books, magazines, internet, travelling, etc.). I have never learned about computers, webdesign, etc. at school - 100% by myself or from friends.

And look at Churchill, from what i know he poorly finished his studies and he was one of the great leaders that saved Europe from Nazi Germany.

Many great men in history leanred most of their knowledge by themselves as autodidacts. This is also true of Abraham Lincoln, Albert Einstein, William Shakespeare, and many more. Autodidacts are "self-thinkers" and usually develop a unique personality and view of the world.

My argument so far in favour of stricter school teaching in the fields of history and geography is because I am appalled at the poor general knowledge of a big part of the population. For example, I found it quite basic at school (when I was 14) to have to remember the names of all the countries in the world, their capitals, as well as the main rivers, mountains and lakes, but this seem to be already too much for many adults is so called "developed countries" (which visibly does not mean intellectually developed, but just materially). Because I am interested in geography, I have learned much more than that, including the population of the world's biggest cities (with and without suburbs), the states of federal countries, the type of political system, age of consent, legal age for drinking, driving, etc. (of course not for all countries, but I have a fairly good idea for OECD countries. This should be left to people who are interested in such statistics, but knowing the world's countries and be able to place them (at least approximately for tiny ones) on a world map is a minimum.

It's more difficult to set the minimum for history, as it also depends on the country.

I also don't understand why so much emphasis is put in mathematics nowadays. For me, "highschool maths" is like Latin and Greek, a mostly useless subject for living and working. It "forms the spirit", as they say, but so do debate classes, or learning about history, geography, economics, psychology, sciences or modern languages. Memorising theorems is surely useless and should be left for those studying scientific subjects at university. I am saying this despite of the fact that I was pretty good at maths. Maths is at best a hobby for those who like it, but really useless for those not using it in their job (and these jobs get fewer and fewer with computers calculating for us).

Because I know from experience that learning languages does not work 1/10 as well at school as living in the country where it is spoken, I would suggest that highschool students should spend one or two semester(s) abroad (or in another part of the country where another language is spoken in the case of Canada, Belgium Switerland, etc.) rather than learn the language in their home country's school. This would be fairly easy in Europe, as the curriculum are already standardised and the diplomas mutually recognised.

Therefore, I would reduce dramatically maths and languages in the current curriculum, put more emphasis on geography, economics, psychology, philosophy and sciences, with options allowing student to get more weekly hours of their favourite subjects. Every student would be obliged to spend 1, 2 or even 3 semesters in a school in another language before completing highschool.

 

[Duo]

Yes I totally agree with you on the mathematics part. For me for example it was always and has been a burden. I agree about langauges. I feel languages are a real treasure because they open doors to so many things. They open the path to knowledge to a different culture that could be rich with great literature and what not... so by all means go out there and start to learn. I feel that the best and quickest way to learn a language is to be in the environemnt where it is spoken. Learning a foreign language back home will hardly ever be successful.

Right now i'm tryin to perfect my french and after that I don't know i'm tempted to enter spanish seeing as knowing Italian it comes very easy to understand and wil help me to learn it quicker. I really like languages. Whenever I'm in a foreign country or with foreign friends I always try to pick up a few words. When I was in Turkey for 10 days I got quite good at learning the routine words and could at times get the meaning of a small exchange of words from recongnizing one and by deducing the intent from the tone and body actions. I'm talkin small things here. Also this year I had many chinese students in my french course and so I always bugged them to teach me stuff and can know have some basic phrases at my disposal from hello to i think you have a nice haircut

If one learns a latin language I feel that really helps seeing as in English may complicated words come from latin roots. Knowing Italian before I really began to learn English helped quite often in some situations. For example the word incandescent, I could clearly make it out meant fiery, prompt to ignite because it means the same in Italian and is written almost the same.