Japan's education problems... is it the lack of critical thinking?

[anomouse]

Did anyone take the SATs? Those tests are mostly multiple choice questions too, even for critical reading and writing (plus a short essay.) The College Board says that they test your critical thinking skills, but do they?

 

[gaijinalways]

When a question was asked like that, almost 95% of the time the "non-western" students would simply copy the exact paragraph from the sentence above. Those from "western nations," including myself, rarely did this and often paraphrased it or wrote more of a deeper explanation. I often reject the "group" pushing to just copy the sentence from the reading passage to present as an answer on the grounds that it was not truly answering and just copying the question. This is one example I believe falls under critical thinking for sure.

I'm curious Glenski, have you run into this sort of pattern?

I often run into this, where students are asked a question, but rather than just answering the question they will give me the whole sentence and sometimes even a paragraph copied verbatim.

Of course, sometimes they simply didn't really understand the question due to linguistic problems.

 

[Emoni]

Consideration of the language barrier is valid, but I've noticed this happens even when it was in Japanese. On top of that many students from East Asia would do the same practice of just copying for the Japanese language classes.

Anomouse, your point is well taken. I don't believe tests aren't the way to solve critical thinking nor really evaluate it. However, there is information that can be gained over all from testing, however off the mark it might be.

 

[caster51]

Emoni;
I think It is done because your idea is subjectivity because there is no result that is led from that.
Is it a critical thinking to lead a result as an evil practice ?
even if it is trure, what is problem?
The focus is already indefinite.

i think westerner doesn't examine anything for themselves before critical thinking. that is, only subjective thinking is needed?

in my opinionm i think westerner is the lack of objective thinking.
that is why it came out "katakana is racism...."

 

[gaijinalways]

in my opinionm i think westerner is the lack of objective thinking.
that is why it came out "katakana is racism...."

But that was already disproved as it was pointed out that there are some words written in Katakana that are not foreign words. I would state the majority of them are foreign, and I am not really sure why Japanese uses Katakana, but that discussion is a bit beyond the borders of this thread's discussion.

i think westerner doesn't examine anything for themselves before critical thinking. that is, only subjective thinking is needed?

You raise an interesting point and a problem we often face when evaluating things. Some things are difficult to measure, hence they are subjective (such as living in Japan, who is it easier for?) whereas some things are easier to measure objectively (as in Who makes more money in Japan?).

 

[Glenski]

One thing you mentioned about answering those questions verbatim.
One thing I noticed during my classes in Japan is that when questions like that were asked and there was any group assignments or the answers were read out, you could almost always tell the "Westerner's" answers. The same goes for comparing my own answers with the Japanese students, as well as the other students from Asia.
When a question was asked like that, almost 95% of the time the "non-western" students would simply copy the exact paragraph from the sentence above. (snip)
I'm curious Glenski, have you run into this sort of pattern?

Every time I give work in class. In fact, they usually copy extraneous material, far beyond what actually answers the question.

If one truly understood the language, that would not happen, of course.

 

[gaijinalways]

Every time I give work in class. In fact, they usually copy extraneous material, far beyond what actually answers the question.

If one truly understood the language, that would not happen, of course.

Though it might happen if people 'thought' giving long winded answers made it 'sound' better. In Japanese, often answers are given which provide a lot of information which Westerners would consider extraneous information.

Getting to the point is not one of the virtues of this culture. I would think critical thinking would necessitate that, getting to the point because one has to decide, "What is the question asking?"

 

[Emoni]

Every time I give work in class. In fact, they usually copy extraneous material, far beyond what actually answers the question.
If one truly understood the language, that would not happen, of course.

Could you explain a little more? I'm not sure I understood. When they copy this material, is it that they are just copying too much without considering or thinking about it? I assume you're talking about essay questions?ﾂ What sorts of questions. I'm specially curious if they are strongly related to evaluation that might require critical thinking skills. I.E. Not just "find this word in the paragraph" or "list this date."

 

[theAlphaDuck]

relating to something Mars Man said....

for one to understand the flower...one must also understand the
leaves...the soil...the bacteria...the elements (chemical and
nature)... the sun..ect.

one cannot hope to gain an understanding of anything without looking
at where that thing itself sits in the greater scheme of things.

thus to say that this thread is about the Japanese education system
only is a flawed conclution based on the OP
infact the thread is about where the Japanese education system sits
(with specific regards to critical thinking) in relation to other
education systems in the world.

thus i would say that there is EVERY need to examine other education
systems in the world... because if you only look at one thing....

one cannot COMPARE and CONTRAST....
and without that...there can be no understanding..

as for tests being able to show critical thinking...,this is on the
most part untrue...
the majority of tests (exept those in subjects such as HISTORY)
are all about the retention and regurtiation of knowledge...simple
facts, and showing an understanding of those facts by using them
E.G. you learn a formula in physics... you remember formula...you use formula.

infact even in tests which require long answers and essay questions it is very hard to test for critical thinking

Peace

 

[pipokun]

Every time I give work in class. In fact, they usually copy extraneous material, far beyond what actually answers the question.
If one truly understood the language, that would not happen, of course.

Why don't you answer the simple question about SAT by anomouse?
What you are talking about is something like...

1. (A Japanese) Seeing sample reading questions of Japanese with listening
2. Surprised to see how easy questions they are
3. Concluded that American students were stupid

How ridiculous...

SAT Subject Tests Preparation Booklet

 

[Emoni]

窶厖愬ｽﾃ停?堙娯?禿岩?堋ｩ窶堙ｧ

thus i would say that there is EVERY need to examine other education
systems in the world... because if you only look at one thing....
one cannot COMPARE and CONTRAST....
and without that...there can be no understanding..

I'm glad to see you are back Alpha.

I agree absolutely. I never start a thread with such a narrow-minded outset as to consider nothing related to the subject in the evaluation of a topic. I've been on this forum for some time, and some of the best threads are those that flow freely under the topic. I'm impressed by the information and everything that has been put down here and I never expected so much information on this thread. It has turned out great, and exploring all sorts of aspects under the umbrella of the topic that I posted. This is everything a poster could hope for.

As for comparing, I think that from the education systems and styles I have seen East Asia can be sectioned off as kind of a group. From the classes I've seen in China, Korea, and Japan, they generally do tend to lack critical thinking and push heavy rote memory. A good memory is great, however, so is the ability to question and analyze. I study history related issues connected with World War II, and I swear one of the major problems is that consideration and analysis of history through a critical thinking and questioning mindset is lacking, but rote memory of nationalistic politically driven history is strong.

Now, building on what you mentioned about understanding where the education systems come from, I think that is absolutely critical to knowing how best critical thinking could be implemented. As i mentioned before, while I agree that history is one of the topics most in need, I believe it would be the most impossible to apply it too all at once under the current situation.

I'm curious though about the European education system and how much critical thinking is applied in various areas there. If I remember right, the Japanese education system was roughly based off the German system. Of course I'm sure the education system there has changed greatly.

 

[Glenski]

Why don't you answer the simple question about SAT by anomouse?

Pardon the heck out of me, ok? When I took the SAT's, Nixon was in office. I can't remember what they were like. Fair enough?

Could you explain a little more? I'm not sure I understood. When they copy this material, is it that they are just copying too much without considering or thinking about it?

Yes. I teach a reading skills course to first year uni students. Scanning, skimming, word structures, etc.

I will sometimes give a short article at or slightly above their level of reading. Comprehension questions follow, whether they do them individually or (with some creative lesson planning on my part) with a partner. I'm not looking for short essays, just facts, but I expect them to read critically and carefully. Here's one example of what I call failed attempt:

Q. How much sleep did David get when he was in college?

I expect them to read where it says "In those days, David didn't sleep much; he went to bed after midnight and got up at 5am every day" and make the connection so that they write something like "less than 5 hours per day".

What I got from some students is a verbatim copy of the above sentence, from "In" to "day".

These are science students, and I emphasize from day 1 they must learn to read carefully. The above exercise followed an entire lesson on reading carefully, where every word counted in providing meaning (and sometimes hidden meaning).

I assume you're talking about essay questions?

I hate multiple choice questions unless I am trying to show them how tricky TOEIC can be, or if I just need to grade something quickly. Essay type questions like the above show me whether they understand the English they are reading (and if they can paraphrase).

I'm specially curious if they are strongly related to evaluation that might require critical thinking skills. I.E. Not just "find this word in the paragraph" or "list this date."

Those types of questions are something one can do very early in such a course. Gotta warm them up somehow, eh? You be the judge if my example above is close to critical thinking skills in action. I despise the Japanese way of phrasing the question to be almost identical to how the words for the answer appear in the text (as I recounted above at 7:48).

 

[Glenski]

From the classes I've seen in China, Korea, and Japan, they generally do tend to lack critical thinking and push heavy rote memory. A good memory is great, however, so is the ability to question and analyze.

Here's my winner for the week. A 4th year student came to me and proudly stated she had just gotten back her TOEIC test score: 600. This was a difference of only 15 points (more) than her previous test, and I had already told her that this was not statistically significant, according to the ETS test makers. Shrug. In one ear, out the other.

She kept her pace and excitement, oblivious to what I had just said, and then continued. According to school policy, she now no longer needs to register for any English courses, so she will not continue with the last 3 weeks of my course. Uh, ok. She then said she will probably audit a future course I teach. Uh, ok, again.

600 is not a stellar score, but it satisfied the school's policy. She now took that to mean that either she was a genius or that she didn't need courses anymore.

Then, she pulls out an email. She had made reservations through a travel agent online to stay somewhere in Europe. The agency sent her a confirmation earlier. The email in her hands was from the hotel itself, who also asked for confirmation of the details (price, type of accommodation, dates, etc.). It clearly stated, "Please confirm by return mail."

She asked me what this meant. Took me 5 minutes to explain it to her.

Uh, ok. 600, eh? Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyup. Thinking skills in action.

 

[pipokun]

...
Uh, ok. 600, eh? Yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyup. Thinking skills in action.

Considering her major (science), I don't think it is that bad.

 

[pipokun]

...
I study history related issues connected with World War II, and I swear one of the major problems is that consideration and analysis of history through a critical thinking and questioning mindset is lacking, but rote memory of nationalistic politically driven history is strong.
...

Did you really see the classes in Japan?
If I remember correctly, it was you who asked some study materials using in Japan somewhere here.

Nationalistic politically driven history is strong?
Tell me your analysis.

 

[Mars Man]

Due to the continued mislead temperament displayed by those who choose not to understand that regardless of thoughts and ideas once held in mind, or which later have come to mind, yet do not carry the weight to determine the perimeters of topic set by an opening post's thread title, context, and content that has been expressly set by an opening post, I am closing this thread until further notice.