She asked me for the time to decide if to accept kokuhaku

[gaijin42]

Japanese are famous for not being able to say they love each other and for being very awkward and bashful about such things. A kokuhaku in Japanese wouldn't necessarily include mention of love. Nor would it necessarily be seen as wanting to start a relationship leading to marriage. Nor does every relationship even start with or include a kokuhaku anyway.

I wouldn't take her current reactions as a rejection. I would worry that she may have misinterpreted your kokuhaku as a marriage proposal, though.

Ok, suppose that she misinterpreted my kokuhaku as a marriage proposal (although I made the words kokuhaku explicit), what should I do that she interprets them properly? Perhaps, if we meet again, could I say: "You know, I played you the song on Monday because I would like that we get to know each other better. So if you would like that we start seeing each other more often, please, let me know." ?

 

[Davey]

Take a step back, before you scare her away. I'm sure you can do that if you love her.

Wish you luck though

 

[Mike Cash]

Ok, suppose that she misinterpreted my kokuhaku as a marriage proposal (although I made the words kokuhaku explicit), what should I do that she interprets them properly? Perhaps, if we meet again, could I say: "You know, I played you the song on Monday because I would like that we get to know each other better. So if you would like that we start seeing each other more often, please, let me know." ?

That's not a bad idea.

Please let us know how things go.

 

[gaijin42]

That's not a bad idea.

Please let us know how things go.

I met her yesterday in Japanese society again and she was very happy to see me I could feel. Then I asked her if she would like to meet on Friday again (I did not mention any restaurant or dating-related ideas, but rather: "Are you going to study in that or this place/library?"). She said she would reply by email. Today she wrote me:

How are you today?
Actually I wanna reply to your asking me to go out with you. Im so sorry but Ive just seen you as a friend, not as a boyfriend.
Sorry I can't say it to you directly because it can make you sad if I do so...
However, I think we should keep in touch and meet up as mates, like we've been doing recently

Anyway, thank you very much for telling your feeling directly. I hope we can see you soon!

So that seems to me like she would need more time to get to know me as it was already mentioned here. However, she is going back to Japan in 2 months. Our prefectures are distant, so my plan was that during the term-off times we would be together, but since she sees me as a friend she would not commit to such an idea.

 

[Mike Cash]

You're firmly in the "friend zone". Adjust your life plans accordingly.

Who knows? If you come to school here chances are very high you'll discover a new love. At least the time factor will be working in your favor.

 

[gaijin42]

You're firmly in the "friend zone". Adjust your life plans accordingly.

Who knows? If you come to school here chances are very high you'll discover a new love. At least the time factor will be working in your favor.

To her message I replied honestly, that I will be always happy to meet her as a friend and that I confessed to her directly because I wanted to meet her more often so that we would get to know each other.
And imagine what! She asked me to meet together this evening. So we met, played together on the guitars, I showed her my poetry and we agreed that it would be lyrics for our new songs. We are going to create and record an album - this means we will spend more time together. She was amazed and said she wants to learn all of my poetry - but that is too many pages!
I think she likes me, but for some deep reasons she keeps the boyfriend boundary clear. Maybe she is afraid that would take her freedom.
So the future looks like this: we will become close friends, record an album, will always remember each other, but never be partners.

 

[WonkoTheSane]

Enjoy a lovely, youthful friendship! Sometimes a musical partnership is more satisfying than a relationship.

 

[Davey]

You never knows what will happen, so don't give up but accept the way it is now.

Today is today.

 

[Mike Cash]

It isn't a matter of you taking her freedom. If she has learned English to the degree demonstrated in her message to you and is studying abroad then the chances are that she comes from a fairly well-to-do (or perhaps even wealthy) family and that she is traveling along an educational and professional life plan that has been running for several years. "Fall in love with foreign boyfriend and derail the whole thing" is not on the agenda.

 

[gaijin42]

It isn't a matter of you taking her freedom. If she has learned English to the degree demonstrated in her message to you and is studying abroad then the chances are that she comes from a fairly well-to-do (or perhaps even wealthy) family and that she is traveling along an educational and professional life plan that has been running for several years. "Fall in love with foreign boyfriend and derail the whole thing" is not on the agenda.

She is not from a wealthy family because she does not even have a kimono, she told me kimono is expensive. Her plans are to be a musician in the UK, but she studies a different course in Japan. Quite opposite, I think, if she decided to be with me, it would be easier for her to pursue her plans.
Anyway, she knows what were my intentions, I will not bother her about it again and we will be good friends.

 

[mdchachi]

Woo hoo! This is ending up much better than I imagined. Enjoy your time with her, be friends and don't try to push for more. If it's meant to be, it will happen.

I wouldn't necessarily infer her family's wealth by the lack of kimonos. It's not uncommon to rent kimono for special occasions these days. There's no real value to having a one-time-use kimono laying around.

 

[nice gaijin]

Being a good friend to her means respecting her boundaries. She directly wrote that she isn't interested in you romantically, but enjoys your company as a friend and creative collaborator. Do not continue to hang out with her under this pretense, and think that if she just spends enough time with you she'll come around. That's guaranteed pain for both of you.

Proceed with no such expectations, and enjoy your friendship for what it is.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

For me there are not too many things worse than attempting to be friends with a woman I want that badly. I would just about rather drive a dagger in my own heart because that is about what it feels like anyway.

And I don't even think it helps one's case very much either. Do that and now you just look like her fool and a dope and she loses respect for you. And it all gets worse when she starts dating somebody else. I think the best move would be to lay it on the line and tell her you are not angry but if you can't have her than you want distance. In other words, no more time alone with her, but if she is at a party or something then you might chat. And keep your chin up. All this will show you have initiative, strength and respect for yourself (no self pity) and I believe if you are going to win a woman, its your best bet. She may come to miss you and discover feelings for you on her own, which is truly the only way. Not saying it WILL work, but I think its your only fighting chance at this point.

Next time you fall for a girl don't try to go from zero to "here is my confession of love" in one go. That only works in the movies or when its painfully obvious she already wants you anyway. Even singing such a song right after the first kiss would be overwhelming. Just put yourself in her shoes for a minute. Imagine some woman you know right now, some woman who is maybe not a complete reject, but someone you never thought of as a potential girlfriend, and she suddenly sings this profession of love for you. I know my reaction would be to want to run the hell out of there as fast as I could, but stay there just to be nice and not wanting to crush her soul.

Anyway, the point is, look to the future. Only be her friend if you can let go of your other feelings for her, well, unless you are complete masochist and love that sort of pain.

My advice is to move on. Sex can happen fast, but not love. Any opportunity for physical affection should be taken as much as she accepts it. Profess love from the heart sometime after that. That is how you take it one step at a time. Its better for you anyway because you don't know if someone is sexually compatible until you have sex with them. And being attached to someone who is not sexually compatible is not much fun. Try before you buy. Its really common sense.

 

[gaijin42]

I think I do not understand the Japanese culture of love confession at all. My family told me that I should invite her for a dinner first, but I think that a Japanese woman would not go for a dinner with a man who has not confessed her. That is why I did not invite her for a dinner first like we do in the West, but sang her that love song. I did not think of a scenario: "Imagine that somebody who you barely know would confess you her love, then would you not run away...?" and the reason being that what I imagine I thought was different from what a Japanese would imagine or expect. Perhaps somebody could explain what this kokuhaku is really about.

Anyway, I will not include the details yet, but I think that now we are close friends. I invited her to my house to welcome the new year and she asked me if she could take her friend with her birthday on 1st January and then if the party could last 2 days and they could stay over. When I asked her when she last me her friend, it was something like 6 months ago. I am probably going to Japan as an exchange student and when she found that out, she almost changed her flights so that she could stay over with me in Tokyo before she goes home. I only stopped her by telling her that my visa is not ready yet. My mother told me that if she just considered me as a friend, she would not be willing to change her flights because of me. On the other hand, several weeks ago, she replied to me that she thinks of me as a friend only and she has not revoked that.

I went home for Christmas and left her for 17 days without me because officially we are just friends. I wrote her she can Skype me if she likes and has the time. She wrote she would definitely do that if she has time, but she has not done that so. I do not know what is in her mind. My mother told me to wait until 31st December when we have party together and then I should deduce more from her behavior towards me.

 

[gaijin42]

My advice is to move on. Sex can happen fast, but not love. Any opportunity for physical affection should be taken as much as she accepts it. Profess love from the heart sometime after that. That is how you take it one step at a time. Its better for you anyway because you don't know if someone is sexually compatible until you have sex with them. And being attached to someone who is not sexually compatible is not much fun. Try before you buy. Its really common sense.

I believe that the cornerstone of any relationship is love, not sex. I am a man and she is a woman, I do not see problems with the compatibility. I sense you disagree, but that would be for a longer discussion.

 

[nice gaijin]

don't worry about it so much. She's your friend. She's told you this, and that it hasn't changed. She's back at home, is probably busy with family and friends and bounenkai and all that, and doesn't have time to Skype. You're still thinking about her like a love prospect, knock it off for both of your sakes. Quit reading into it so much, you'll drive yourself mad.

 

[Mike Cash]

I think I do not understand the Japanese culture of love confession at all. My family told me that I should invite her for a dinner first, but I think that a Japanese woman would not go for a dinner with a man who has not confessed her.

I think you've perhaps seen too many Japanese cartoons and comic books and have a warped understanding.

I've spent the last thirty years married to a Japanese woman who I never did kokuhaku to. And I doubt very seriously mine is a unique case. In fact, there are surveys which reveal that those who do kokuhaku are very definitely in the minority.

愛の告白の経験率を調査したら…なんと20代では女性の方が経験率高かった！ – しらべぇ ｜ 気になるアレを大調査ニュース！

 

[WonkoTheSane]

@gaijin42 find some other girl to chase for a while. If this one likes you it will encourage her to let you know, if she doesn't like you then at least you won't be such a lovesick puppy around her.

There is very little which is less attractive to a woman than a man who is overly focused on her. Go to a bar or a club or whatever kids do these days, and have some fun.

Also, for goodness sake, stop asking your mother for relationship advice. Find some guy friends who are getting the girls they want and talk to them instead.

EDIT: I have gone out to dinner, drinks, coffee, etc. with more than a few Japanese women and I can tell you with absolute certainty that I have never confessed in any way, shape or form to any of them.

 

[Lothor]

Echoing the last two posts, kokuhaku is the stuff of films rather than reality. Getting Mrs Lothor drunk on red wine and trying to kiss her worked for me.

 

[nice gaijin]

For the record, I do NOT recommend plying anyone with alcohol and trying to kiss them, especially when they've already placed you very firmly in the friend zone. This is a slippery slope that's heading toward harassment.

 

[mdchachi]

As others have said there really is no culture of kokuhaku to begin with. Where did you get your information??

 

[gaijin42]

As others have said there really is no culture of kokuhaku to begin with. Where did you get your information??

I saw some posts on the Internet, e.g. Japan's "Love Confessing" Culture - Tofugu .
It seems I probably misunderstood them.

 

[WonkoTheSane]

I saw some posts on the Internet, e.g. Japan's "Love Confessing" Culture - Tofugu .
It seems I probably misunderstood them.

Ok, do NOT rely on the internet to tell you about Japan. The internet is like a strange funhouse mirror and just about everything in it is somehow distorted:

In the future, when wondering about Japanese girls, just think of what every other girl in the world is like. Remove the word Japanese from in front of the word girl, because girls are basically girls everywhere in the world.

 

[gaijin42]

In the future, when wondering about Japanese girls, just think of what every other girl in the world is like. Remove the word Japanese from in front of the word girl, because girls are basically girls everywhere in the world.

Using this reasoning, she has to like me a lot even just as a friend because after my kokuhaku every other woman I can imagine would declare me insane in her mind and would avoid talking to me again...

I think we are very good friends after all, and because of that I am very happy. She skyped me for almost 1 hour while I have been away and sent me nice Christmas wishes.

 

[WonkoTheSane]

Using this reasoning, she has to like me a lot even just as a friend because after my kokuhaku every other woman I can imagine would declare me insane in her mind and would avoid talking to me again...

I think we are very good friends after all, and because of that I am very happy. She skyped me for almost 1 hour while I have been away and sent me nice Christmas wishes.

Great, now go to a club, meet some cute young thing, and charm the pants off of her.