Speaking Japanese

[Jdzspace]

ok, I have ALWAYS wanted to learn Japanese, I have always been in love with the culture (historically and modern), and always wanted to at some point move there for the rest of my life. Well, I got my hands on a copy of rosetta stone, and i have been DEVOURING it for the last week now.
up until this point, I was VERY happy with my progress. I am familiar with Kana (can identify most characters quickly), can form a sentence in the positive or negative, pronouce each word I have learned (in my extensive vocabulary of about 40 words ). But I have hit a snag, probably just the first of many as I continue to work down this path, but none the less.
Here I am.....that's enough backround, here is my problem. I can say most of the words and phrases I have learned without much issue.. But I have been caught REALLY badly on a relatively simple one. And i'm wondering if my english tongue is the problem, and if there is any exercises or things I can do (outside of just repeating the phrase and/or word over and over again).
I feel like my tongue is resisting doing what i tell it to do, and it can't grasp the concept of saying "sa o mo da i masen" in sequence without it coming out closer to "domo i masu" . i blame TV and movies and music for that...but i was just hoping there was a way around it, or practices to work through it.
any help would be much appreciated.
Thanks all

 

[tokkyo]

Sorry, what is it you are trying to pronounce in Japanese? Not sure what sa o mo da i masen is
In any case, the best thing you can do is just keep repeating it. At some point you will need a teacher, preferably a native speaker, to check your pronunciation. This should happen sooner than later, before bad habits become solidified. In the meantime, you can record yourself, and listen to see if what you say actually sounds like what the computer says.

 

[Mike Cash]

Rosetta Stone sucks. If that in love with Japanese open up your wallet and buy a decent textbook.

 

[Jdzspace]

Rosetta Stone sucks. If that in love with Japanese open up your wallet and buy a decent textbook.

no, rosetta stone does not suck.There are millions of people it works very well for, you are entitled to your opinion. But it is not universal by any stretch of the imagination.

It is working great for me and i have gotten much farther than i thought i would after a week as a result. And it would seem that in a thread asking for help, you bashing and insinuating I need to open my wallet (like Rosetta Stone is cheap), for a text book, seems a little out of line.

and with the problem i'm having, I don't think a book would really help, which is why i'm trying to ask people who know the language better than me, instead of just reading up on it (which i have done as well).

so how exactly is your suggestion supposed to help me with my problem?

 

[Jdzspace]

thanks

 

[Jdzspace]

Sorry, what is it you are trying to pronounce in Japanese? Not sure what sa o mo da i masen is
In any case, the best thing you can do is just keep repeating it. At some point you will need a teacher, preferably a native speaker, to check your pronunciation. This should happen sooner than later, before bad habits become solidified. In the meantime, you can record yourself, and listen to see if what you say actually sounds like what the computer says.

the full phrase i'm struggling with is " Ohnanokoa tachiha Jiten sha o mode i masen"

my tongue just gets confused or something in that section of transition from Jiten sha to "o" and "mo de"

its' very odd, and i don't want to move on to the next section until I have this stuff down. any help is very welcomed.

 

[Mike Cash]

Rosetta Stone is a half-baked product which markets its shortcomings as its strengths. Someday I would like to meet someone who has learned Japanese well from it; since there are "millions" of them perhaps you could introduce a few.

It has you coming up with nonsensical utterances like "sou mo a dou imasen" or whatever the heck it was and thinking the only problem with it is that it's hard to pronounce.

Tell us what you were trying to say and perhaps we can help you better. God knows you're not going to learn much proper construction or usage from RS, that's for sure.

 

[Mike Cash]

the full phrase i'm struggling with is " Ohnanokoa tachiha Jiten sha o mode i masen"

my tongue just gets confused or something in that section of transition from Jiten sha to "o" and "mo de"

its' very odd, and i don't want to move on to the next section until I have this stuff down. any help is very welcomed.

Onna no ko tachi ha jitensha wo notte imasen.

What do you think it means?

See why RS sucks?

 

[Jdzspace]

Rosetta Stone is a half-baked product which markets its shortcomings as its strengths. Someday I would like to meet someone who has learned Japanese well from it; since there are "millions" of them perhaps you could introduce a few.

It has you coming up with nonsensical utterances like "sou mo a dou imasen" or whatever the heck it was and thinking the only problem with it is that it's hard to pronounce.

Tell us what you were trying to say and perhaps we can help you better. God knows you're not going to learn much proper construction or usage from RS, that's for sure.

to be fair, it isn't just rosetta stone i'm using. anytime i get a "new word" from rosetta stone, i immediately cross reference it with 2 other translator apps on my phone, and with a printed out character list I have.

it has nothing to do with the program, it has to do with me not being able to say each word in that phrase flawlessly (as flawless as someone 1 week in can be at the least) , but when i put them together, i stumble more than I have with other phrases.

I am not putting all of my eggs in the rosetta stone basket, but the issue i'm having i'm sure is me and has nothing to do with the program.

 

[Jdzspace]

if i improperly put the english translation that isn't a function of the program, I have been TRYING to learn the letters without their "english translations" . so i'm not super strong at typing the translation.

basically, I don't want to look at " か " and think "oh yeah, that is ka", I want to look at "か" and just know that is the sound it makes not in relation to english, but just that is the sound it makes. so i'm not super good at the english translation of the characters themselves. if i miss typed them, i'm sorry

and the phrase is supposed to be "The women do not have bicycles"

 

[Mike Cash]

If you're getting "mode" instead of "notte", there's an immediate problem that requires immediate fixing. And I suspect the source of the problem is the half-assed nature of the RS materials.

You would be far better served and make far more productive use of your time and efforts by using properly constructed textbook material that actually introduces and explains things for you rather than showing you a picture, playing you a sound, and leaving you to try to intuit everything.

You're struggling over attempting to pronounce something you've MISHEARD to begin with. Where's the point in that?

 

[Jdzspace]

If you're getting "mode" instead of "notte", there's an immediate problem that requires immediate fixing. And I suspect the source of the problem is the half-assed nature of the RS materials.

You would be far better served and make far more productive use of your time and efforts by using properly constructed textbook material that actually introduces and explains things for you rather than showing you a picture, playing you a sound, and leaving you to try to intuit everything.

You're struggling over attempting to pronounce something you've MISHEARD to begin with. Where's the point in that?

how can i catch things like this in the future, because I have learned a lot from the program, so i don't want to junk it. and combined with the other things i use I think I can pull this out well. But if there is that big of an issue, mo de is the symbols that come up, and when i spoke those words into a translator it came out with the correct phrase......i'm sort of at a loss.

I know i'm new to this, but it seems like mixing up も with の would show up in one of the other tranlsators i use to fact check RS.

hmmm

 

[Angel Valis]

What lesson is the phrase in? I can take a look/listen to it. (I have Rosetta Stone levels 1 and 2...not that I've really ever really used them; I can't stay motivated with no instruction)

 

[Jdzspace]

in the speaking section of level 1 unit 1 section 2

 

[Angel Valis]

Well, my apologies, My version of Rosetta stone doesn't have that item in that lesson...and I don't even know if it's in my version at all. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since I bought it probably close to 10 years ago...

EDIT: Can you perhaps take a screenshot?

 

[Foocha]

Why not use textbooks on top of RS? I know the whole point of it is to not have to connect the meaning of things to English, but I don't think using only dictionaries to reference is a great idea. There are a lot of things that take some extra explanation in function to be able to use correctly, other than just dictionary definitions.

 

[Toritoribe]

jitensha o motte imasen
jitensha ni notte imasen

It doesn't just depend on the listening comprehension but also on the knowledge about the grammar. Even if the pronunciation is unclear, we can guess it from the context in most cases (and actually do that in real conversation, not only in Japanese but also in English or other languages, I believe).

 

[Half-n-Half]

basically, I don't want to look at " か " and think "oh yeah, that is ka", I want to look at "か" and just know that is the sound it makes not in relation to english, but just that is the sound it makes.

You have only been learning for a week. Some things take time. What you mentioned above is just a matter of reading lots of material. This is also why you may feel you can't pronounce things right. Your tongue and mind are used to speaking English, so again it takes time to train them to get used to Japanese. Listening to native materials can help you recognize how things should be pronounced but won't necessarily help you actually pronounce them.

So don't get too anxious. The best advice I can give is not to worry about how fast you progress or where you are in your studies, especially only after a week.

 

[Jdzspace]

Where is somewhere i can dowload basic japanese sentence practice sheets? or something that I can practice other than the words I have learned with RS to help me feel better about speaking the language.

it's a little irritating to be able to understand everything said, and being able to read it well enough, but when it comes to speaking it.....totally sucking

please help

 

[Jdzspace]

You have only been learning for a week. Some things take time. What you mentioned above is just a matter of reading lots of material. This is also why you may feel you can't pronounce things right. Your tongue and mind are used to speaking English, so again it takes time to train them to get used to Japanese. Listening to native materials can help you recognize how things should be pronounced but won't necessarily help you actually pronounce them.

So don't get too anxious. The best advice I can give is not to worry about how fast you progress or where you are in your studies, especially only after a week.

your right, I was just having so much fun learning all the basics. and flying through it, and just looking forward to when i could speak it and really understand it and watch all of those great old movies that i love without subtitles. then coming to the realization that it isn't going to be as easy as i thought just caught me off guard, owell, nothing worth having in this life comes easy.

what materials would you suggest?

 

[Jdzspace]

Well, my apologies, My version of Rosetta stone doesn't have that item in that lesson...and I don't even know if it's in my version at all. I guess I shouldn't be surprised since I bought it probably close to 10 years ago...

EDIT: Can you perhaps take a screenshot?

file:///C:/Users/JD/Pictures/Screenshots/Screenshot%20(1).png

I don't know if that will work....it's the best i could do.

 

[Mike Cash]

file:///C:/Users/JD/Pictures/Screenshots/Screenshot%20(1).png

I don't know if that will work....it's the best i could do.

We would need access to your hard drive in order to see that.

 

[Jdzspace]

We would need access to your hard drive in order to see that.

figures...ugh. i don't now how to post a screen shot online.

 

[nahadef]

Oh no.
Advice from someone who went from zero to fluent-in-daily-life in a few years....
As admirable as it is to try to imagine the kana in terms of native speakers, it's a little unrealistic in a week. Give it six months, and give it a year to two years before you tackle the kanji. Try to imagine you're a native Japanese, you learn to speak long before you read and write.
And the advice of getting a textbook is solid. Minna no Nihongo is a popular one, but myself, I learned, initially, from Japanese for Busy People (which I don't love at all) and later, studying for the JLPT, which I really liked. I learned a great cross section of vocabulary and grammar, and after a year of studying that seriously, I was able interact relatively comfortably with natives in Japan, and it only got easier from there.
I'm not trying for fluency at this point, since I have other things on my plate at the moment, but I think it's pretty achievable if you immerse yourself.

 

[Jdzspace]

Oh no.
Advice from someone who went from zero to fluent-in-daily-life in a few years....
As admirable as it is to try to imagine the kana in terms of native speakers, it's a little unrealistic in a week. Give it six months, and give it a year to two years before you tackle the kanji. Try to imagine you're a native Japanese, you learn to speak long before you read and write.
And the advice of getting a textbook is solid. Minna no Nihongo is a popular one, but myself, I learned, initially, from Japanese for Busy People (which I don't love at all) and later, studying for the JLPT, which I really liked. I learned a great cross section of vocabulary and grammar, and after a year of studying that seriously, I was able interact relatively comfortably with natives in Japan, and it only got easier from there.
I'm not trying for fluency at this point, since I have other things on my plate at the moment, but I think it's pretty achievable if you immerse yourself.

well lord knows i'm immersed. lol

I'm comfortable with the letters right now, i feel like i should have them mastered in a week or so the way i'm studying them. I have downloaded a few "learn japanese" apps, and have learned a LOT just in the last hour or so of studying it. i'll look into that book you suggested too...I just need sentences or something i can practice outside of my main study times.

in the first unit with Rosetta stone I was able to do all the activities i did on my computer on my phone as well, which allowed me to be pretty much in a state of practicing all day at work as a result. I know it can't and won't be that way as i get more into it, but a text book could fit the bill. and i can always listen to other programs i have when i'm on lunch and on my way to and from work.

but it's good to know that you have achieved what i am working for in a relatively short time.

thanks