骨が折れました

[derick78b]

hey guys,

I"m starting to make "harder" sentences, so I cried that:

それは犬骨が折れました見つける、猫を貰いしたから。

Meaning: It was so hard to find a dog, that's why I got a cat.


I don't know if I used 骨が折れました right or if the sentence is totally wrong,
pleaase, correct me if I'm wrong.


thanks.

 

[Toritoribe]

犬を見つけるのは骨が折れたので、お礼に猫を貰いました。

I think 犬を見つけるのは難しかったので、お礼に猫を貰いました。 would be more common.

 

[derick78b]

犬を見つけるのは骨が折れたので、お礼に猫を貰いました。

I think 犬を見つけるのは難しかったので、お礼に猫を貰いました。 would be more common.

Two simple questions, please:

犬を見つけるのは I really don't know what it means, probably の particle and は particle, didn't understand the use of の.

Second one: お礼に. Searching I found that it means "expression of gratitude, thanking". I didn't understand it either. に is used in this case for indirect object?

Thank you.

 

[Toritoribe]

That の is not a particle but a nominalizer. の turns 犬を見つける into a noun clause, just like "I search a dog" --> "serching a dog/to search a dog" in English.

The 「の」 particle in this usage essentially replaces the noun and takes over the role as a noun itself. We can essentially treat adjectives and verbs just like nouns by adding the 「の」 particle to it. The particle then becomes a generic noun, which we can treat just like a regular noun.
（１） 白いのは、かわいい。- Thing that is white is cute.
（２） 授業に行くのを忘れた。- Forgot the event of going to class.

Now we can use the direct object, topic, and identifier particle with verbs and adjectives. We don't necessarily have to use the 「の」 particle here. We can use the noun 「物」, which is a generic object or 「こと」 for a generic event. For example, we can also say:
（１） 白い物は、かわいい。- Thing that is white is cute.
（２） 授業に行くことを忘れた。- Forgot the thing of going to class.

However, the 「の」 particle is very useful in that you don't have to specify a particular noun. In the next examples, the 「の」 particle is not replacing any particular noun, it just allows us to modify verb and adjective clauses like noun clauses. The subordinate clauses are highlighted.
（１） 毎日勉強するのは大変。 - The thing of studying every day is tough.
（２） 毎日同じ物を食べるのは、面白くない。- It's not interesting to eat same thing every day.

Noun-related particles - Tae Kim's Japanese grammar guide


お礼に means "in appreciation/return for". The particle に indicates "reason/cause/criterion". You've got the cat in return for searching the dog, don't you?

 

[derick78b]

That の is not a particle but a nominalizer. の turns 犬を見つける into a noun clause, just like "I search a dog" --> "serching a dog/to search a dog" in English.

I think I started with the wrong phrase. Everything sounds sooo difficult right now, each time I learn one thing, 23764536 other rules come along.

I know at times I sound stupid but I'm really trying hard to learn. Could I omit お礼に?

Thank you.

byebye

 

[Toritoribe]

Do you mean something like "I wanted to have a dog. I looked for it but it's hard to find. Then, I changed my mind and decided to have a cat" by your sentence? If so, I misinterpreted the meaning because of the nuance of the words 見つける and 貰う.

My sentence is for "You looked for someone's missing dog, but it's hard to find. After searching, he/she gave you a cat in return for your help".

 

[derick78b]

Do you mean something like "I wanted to have a dog. I looked for it but it's hard to find. Then, I changed my mind and decided to have a cat" by your sentence? If so, I misinterpreted the meaning because of the nuance of the words ﾅ陳ｩ窶堙や?堋ｯ窶堙ｩ and 窶禿｡窶堋､.
My sentence is for "You looked for someone's missing dog, but it's hard to find. After searching, he/she gave you a cat in return for your help".

No, no. Please, that's not what I meant.


My phrase is: "It was so hard to find a dog that I got a cat."
For example: my mom couldn't find ANY dog to give to me for a present, then she gave me a cat. Understand?


thank you

 

[Toritoribe]

Since my mom couldn't find any dogs for me, she gave me a cat instead.
母は犬を見つけられなかったので、代わりに、私に猫をくれました。


If the clause is 犬を見つけられなかったので, i.e., when you don't state who the subject is, the subject of 見つけられなかった is interpreted as the speaker "I" or "general you".

It was so hard to find a dog that I got a cat.
犬を見つけるのは難しかったので、代わりに猫を貰いました。
("Generally speaking, it was hard to find a dog" or "It was hard for me to find a dog", therefore I got a cat from someone instead.)


Just one more thing. Do you remember we pointed out that the words like "got it?" or "understand?" sounds rude? I'm not very happy to see those words even though YOU don't have such an intention.

 

[Rei Yahya]

母は犬を見つけられなかったので、代わりに、私に猫をくれました。

I'm so sorry to interject, but this conjugation, 'mitsukerareru'...~rareru and ~reru I've heard explained two ways, one is that it's just another version of Base 4, and another that it's used when you want to give a certain special respect to whoever you're talking about. Or is it both of those combined? :? Thank you!

 

[derick78b]

Since my mom couldn't find any dogs for me, she gave me a cat instead.
母は犬を見つけられなかったので、代わりに、私に猫をくれました。


If the clause is 犬を見つけられなかったので, i.e., when you don't state who the subject is, the subject of 見つけられなかった is interpreted as the speaker "I" or "general you".

It was so hard to find a dog that I got a cat.
犬を見つけるのは難しかったので、代わりに猫を貰いました。
("Generally speaking, it was hard to find a dog" or "It was hard for me to find a dog", therefore I got a cat from someone instead.)

Sorry if I offended you, it really wasn't my intention. But I don't have any other word for "Do you know what I mean?". I DID NOT EVER mean to be rude with ANYONE.

I appreciate EVERYTHING you're doing with me, you're totally helpful. Sorry once again.


And thank you for your help.

 

[Toritoribe]

I'm so sorry to interject, but this conjugation, 'mitsukerareru'...~rareru and ~reru I've heard explained two ways, one is that it's just another version of Base 4, and another that it's used when you want to give a certain special respect to whoever you're talking about. Or is it both of those combined? :? Thank you!

Are you talking about potential, passive, honorific, and so-called ら抜き言葉[ra-nuki kotoba]?

見つける(ichidan verb)

見つけられる(potential/passive/honorific; All forms are the same.)
見つけれる(ra-nuki kotoba, a variation of potential; informal, colloquial and officially-unaccepted)


取る(godan verb)

取られる(passive/honorific)
取れる(potential)

 

[derick78b]

犬を見つけるのは大変だったから猫を貰いました。

Some people said it would fit right too, do you think so?


Thank you.

 

[Toritoribe]

Yes. It's just the difference between 難しい and 大変（だ）, ので and から.The structure is the same.

 

[derick78b]

Yes. It's just the difference between 難しい and 大変（だ）, ので and から.The structure is the same.

Thank you! That helped a lot