なれる / その人にして / 受けられる / まま

[eeky]

Hello,

1. スポーツでもいいし、音楽でもいいが、何かのサークルに入れば日本人学生と友達になれる。

My translation: "If you join some kind of club -- sports or music clubs are good -- then you will be able to make friends with Japanese students."

I'm assuming that なれる is the potential form of なる (as opposed to the verb なれる in the sense "grow familiar/acquainted with"). Correct?


2. This is a note explaining the usage of ～ように言ってください and related expressions:

その人にしてほしいことを伝えてもらう。

I think this is referring to having someone pass on a message, but I don't really understand the sentence structure at all. I don't know who その人 refers to (is it just anyone who might receive the message?), and I don't understand in what sense にして is used.


3. たとえペット専用のお墓ができたと聞いても驚かなくな るくらい人間と同じような扱いを受けられるようになっ た。

My translation: "For example, pets have come to receive the same treatment as humans, to the extent that one is not surprised to hear that even special graves for pets are available."

Is 受けられる potential form with implied subject "pets", literally "(pets) can receive"?


4. ところが、飼い主がその犬をどんなに好きでも、電車や 飛行機などにそのまま連れて乗ることはできない。レス トランでも犬を連れたまま食事ができるところはほんの 一部だけだ。

My translation: "Even so, however much pet owners are fond of their dogs, they can't take them on trains, planes, and so forth. Only a fraction of restaurants allow customers to take dogs inside while they eat."

a) I'm not completely sure of the purpose of まま in either sentence. Could it mean "as one pleases"? In other words, you can't take them on trains or into restaurants just when you feel like it?

b) Does ほんの一部だけ mean a small fraction, or a reasonable fraction, or what?

 

[Mike Cash]

2. This is a note explaining the usage of ～ように言ってください and related expressions:

その人にしてほしいことを伝えてもらう。

I think this is referring to having someone pass on a message, but I don't really understand the sentence structure at all. I don't know who その人 refers to (is it just anyone who might receive the message?), and I don't understand in what sense にして is used.

This is another breaking-phrases-at-the-wrong-place problem:

[その人に] [してほしいこと] を [伝えてもらう]

It is impossible to tell who その人 is. It is the equivalent of using a pronoun (him) without an antecedent in English.

4. ところが、飼い主がその犬をどんなに好きでも、電車や 飛行機などにそのまま連れて乗ることはできない。レス トランでも犬を連れたまま食事ができるところはほんの 一部だけだ。

a) I'm not completely sure of the purpose of まま in either sentence. Could it mean "as one pleases"? In other words, you can't take them on trains or into restaurants just when you feel like it?

そのまま means "just as they are" in this case. In other words, just as they are when walking them around town on a leash. It means the animals have to be in some sort of kennel or cage.

犬を連れたまま also carries the same "just as xxx is" connotation. Outside the restaurant they are with dogs. They can't enter the restaurant with the dogs; some change has to take place (they have to lose the mutts). The people are in State A (with dogs) and have to transition to State B (without dogs). まま indicates a continuance of State A.

Now that I come to think of it, that means it can also be used to imply the possibility of a change to State B, without the need to explicitly mention it.

For example:

Upon entering a building: 靴のままでいい

From a title loan company: 乗車のままで融資

 

[Toritoribe]

1)
As for なれる, yes. However, it's not スポーツや音楽がいい but スポーツでもいいし、音楽でもいい, thus, it means "sports clubs are all right or music clubs, too". It has a nuance of "anything is all right".

3)
Yes.

4) b)
The former.

 

[eeky]

Thank you both.

[その人に] [してほしいこと] を [伝えてもらう]

Sorry, I still don't get this. I believe that 伝えてもらう means have someone pass something on, in this case a message. I believe that その人に means that the message is to be passed on to some person. I am assuming してほしいこと = して・ほしい・こと, but I don't understand who is the subject of して (or even if して is from する), or what grammar connects して with ほしいこと, or how this part fits into the overall meaning of the sentence.

 

[Toritoribe]

There are two people in the story (or three, including the speaker).

Person A: その人 = the person who will receive the message
Person B: the person the speaker is directly talking to, who will pass on the message to A

その人にしてほしいこと: what I'd like A to do

The speaker is asking B to pass on the message(= what I'd like A to do) to A.

Edit:
The particle に can indicate both 1)the recipient of the massege(person A) and 2)the giver of the favor(person B) when used with the compound verb 伝えてもらう.

1) Aさんに伝えてもらう
In this case, に is connected to 伝える.
I receive the favor of "passing on the message to A".

2) Bさんに伝えてもらう
In this case, に is connected to もらう.
I receive the favor of "passing on the message" from B.

Maybe this is the cause of the confusing?

 

[Mike Cash]

While out riding around on my motorcycle today I stopped in at a motorcycle goods/parts shop and while there noticed some rain covers for boots....something I desperately needed. On the floor there were a couple of sizing mats and when I noticed what was written on them, dear eeky, I snapped a photo of one just for you:

靴のまま by mike cash, on Flickr
​

 

[eeky]

その人にしてほしいこと: what I'd like A to do
The speaker is asking B to pass on the message(= what I'd like A to do) to A.

I'm still struggling to understand the grammar of this, even now you've explained what it means. I understand その人, and that ほしいこと means "things that I want", but beyond that I have no clue how it works. Is there any way to explain individually the function of に and して, and how they join grammatically with ほしいこと?

Mike, thanks for the photo, but I want to be sure I understand this use of まま. Is it saying that you should leave your boots on while you check your size?

 

[Glenn]

(し)てほしい is a set phrase expressing what you want someone else to do. に marks the person you want to do it.

Yes, it means to match up your shoes' size with the chart while leaving your shoes on.

 

[eeky]

Thanks Glenn. I will consider it a set expression and worry no more about it.

 

[Mike Cash]

It's not a set expression. I'm afraid you're getting hung up on having previously learned にして as a set expression. Any resemblance between that usage and this usage is purely coincidental.

Are you familiar with the ～てほしい construction?

食べてほしい
飲んでほしい
見てほしい

あなたに見てほしい物がある。
彼に伝えてほしいことがある。
パーティーに彼奴だけ連れて来てほしくない。

It's exactly the same thing, except the verb being used is する.

If the sentence were その人にやってほしいことを伝えてもらう would it be more clear? It's exactly the same thing. Your studies have predisposed your eyes to always treat にして as a single unit. As you can see from this example, that isn't always going to be appropriate.

Yes, the mat is for sizing rain covers to go over riding boots so it is necessary to do the sizing くつのまま. You could also say くつを履いたまま.

 

[Glenn]

Sorry, I meant ～てほしい was a set expression meaning you wanted someone else to do something. I was hoping putting し in parentheses would make that clear, although I am aware it's not the convention. Although I guess "grammatical pattern" may have been a better wording...

 

[Toritoribe]

I'm still struggling to understand the grammar of this, even now you've explained what it means. I understand その人, and that ほしいこと means "things that I want", but beyond that I have no clue how it works. Is there any way to explain individually the function of に and して, and how they join grammatically with ほしいこと?

You've already came across ～てほしい structure.;-)

飲ませてくれる / 男に作る / みなくて / もらう / はじめの予定 / これも仕事だ / おぼえてもらった

You interpreted correctly （彼ら＝大阪の人たちが君に）早く来てほしい as "they want you to come quickly" in the thread linked above. It's quite the same to here "(私が)その人(= A)にしてほしい = I want A to do".

 

[eeky]

Sorry, I meant ～てほしい was a set expression meaning you wanted someone else to do something.

Right, that's how I understood it. ～てほしい is a set expression, or set phrasing, and in this case it happens to be してほしい.

However, the reason I originally did not recognise it, even as a form I'd seen before, is probably because I was focusing on にして as a unit, as has been pointed out.