The United States of America

[Hezam]

Wow ... this went down hill fast.
I can admit OPENLY that my country is flawed... can you? Can you do it openly in the streets and not worry about reprisal?
Hazem do you denounce your countries military members as you say we should denounce ours? Or is your country that much better? Are you really that self righeous and ignorant?
Personally I wish we could pull out of all our conflicts we are involved in, cut all our aid to countries that don't "play nice" with us, deal with internal issues, and let the rest of you just fight amongst your selves. We could cut our military expenses in half, get rid of our national debt, create more internal jobs, secure our border, etc etc... trust me we can figure out how to make energy without your oil.
Oh wait I forgot I am the baby killer, evil American, gun toteing, (enter your description of Americans here)...... bastard right? So what do I know... I don't read the Christian Monitor.

If you read my posts you will understand...
- I can't denounce our (if they are our) military members.
- That's why we hate our governments more than the US gov.
- I wish they get killed sooner ...we had enough from them and the US governemnt (Notice that i never said "the american people" ).

P.S You must go out the US and see what your governments do out there before calling people "Ignorants" ...

 

[Navy Guy]

If you read my posts you will understand...
- I can't denounce our (if they are our) military members.
- That's why we hate our governments more than the US gov.
- I wish they get killed sooner ...we had enough from them and the US governemnt (Notice that i never said "the american people" ).
P.S You must go out the US and see what your governments do out there before calling people "Ignorants" ...

Hezam, do you realize you come off as an angry at the rest of the world because they have something better than I have person?
First you said "Are you serious ? You are proud of who kills people ? it doesn't change anything,you are not proud of the war but of those who start the war !! I don't see any difference !!
"
That is offensive to ME! I AM IN THE MILITARY. So you think I should be killed because of some polliticians decisions? Then you are no better than those who make the decisions to go to war. War is a bad but sometimes necessary thing or do you doubt that? If you do then look at your last post " I wish they get killed sooner... " How do you think wars start? people like you who want others DEAD or KILLED because they don't follow YOUR thought process so don't try and pull the peace loving anti-war crap with me.
You can't denounce you military? maybe because your country has decided to opress you and not give you freedom of speach? You know like America has, but you hate us for it... just look at you comment on the tea party. At least we are able to have people like that express their views without fear of being silenced forever.
What you don't understand, with your obviously superior knowledge of the world, is that the American government is elected by the people so therefore when you denounce the US government you denounce ALL of us because a mojority electoral vote is what put the President into power and a majority popular vote is what puts Congress and the Senate into power.
Oh and Hazem I HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE AMERICA, I work internationally I have even been in your country multiple times. Do not assume to understand someone you do not look into, maybe you should stop reading your gossip one sided papers and look elsewhere for your all powerfull news.
America is NOT the best place on earth, we have a lot of flaws. One being we tend to get dragged into/sticking our nose into other countries buisness when we shouldn't. But if we didn't I wonder if you would be part of The United States of Iraq by now Hazem and be without this outlet to spread your hate and discontent? Think on that.
I am not going to come back to this posting because this is obviously turning into a "let's bash the US" forum. Why don't you all bash your own countries instead of mine.

 

[Hezam]

Hezam, do you realize you come off as an angry at the rest of the world because they have something better than I have person?

I'm jealous not angry,Everyone wants to be better...

First you said "Are you serious ? You are proud of who kills people ? it doesn't change anything,you are not proud of the war but of those who start the war !! I don't see any difference !!
"

That is offensive to ME! I AM IN THE MILITARY. So you think I should be killed because of some polliticians decisions? Then you are no better than those who make the decisions to go to war. War is a bad but sometimes necessary thing or do you doubt that?[/QUOTE]
Yes you follow the orders,do you deny that ?
And you said "War is a bad but sometimes necessary thing"..So sometimes it's not necessary.

If you do then look at your last post " I wish they get killed sooner... " How do you think wars start? people like you who want others DEAD or KILLED because they don't follow YOUR thought process so don't try and pull the peace loving anti-war crap with me.

It's not because they don't follow my thought process,It's because they took our freedom and wealth,It seems like you didn't get it yet ! they took us back to the stone ages.

You can't denounce you military? maybe because your country has decided to opress you and not give you freedom of speach? You know like America has, but you hate us for it...

huh? i hate you because you have freedom ?? man! you made me laugh.
I hate your GOVERNMENT because they are supporting and protecting the goddamn dictators here who took our freedom...OPEN YOUR MIND !

just look at you comment on the tea party. At least we are able to have people like that express their views without fear of being silenced forever.
What you don't understand, with your obviously superior knowledge of the world, is that the American government is elected by the people so therefore when you denounce the US government you denounce ALL of us because a mojority electoral vote is what put the President into power and a majority popular vote is what puts Congress and the Senate into power.

If this is right then yes i blame the people who voted,But why do you say ALL while a big part of Americans didn't vote !!
And why the Americans protested against Iraq war ? Why the government ignored the american people and decided to attack Iraq ?

Oh and Hazem I HAVE BEEN OUTSIDE AMERICA, I work internationally I have even been in your country multiple times. Do not assume to understand someone you do not look into, maybe you should stop reading your gossip one sided papers and look elsewhere for your all powerfull news.

I don't need to look into someone while his mission is killing.What would i realise when i look into that soldier who kills my peopel ?

America is NOT the best place on earth, we have a lot of flaws. One being we tend to get dragged into/sticking our nose into other countries buisness when we shouldn't. But if we didn't I wonder if you would be part of The United States of Iraq by now Hazem and be without this outlet to spread your hate and discontent? Think on that.

I would prefer to be a part of the United Status of Iraq,I would love to.It's better than the rest cowards we have now,they sold our lands and wealth for the Enemy.

I am not going to come back to this posting because this is obviously turning into a "let's bash the US" forum. Why don't you all bash your own countries instead of mine.

Actually you ran away,
You came to Saudi Arabia so how did you find the richest country in the earth ? A desert ...just a goddamn desert.

And from now on,congratualations the new etremest party that will make new wars.

 

[noyhauser]

I hate your GOVERNMENT because they are supporting and protecting the goddamn dictators here who took our freedom...OPEN YOUR MIND !

So should the United States also do something about that? Moreover what if the United States "left you alone?" Guess what, China and every other country would keep buying your oil and the House of Saud would still be there. Oh wait... China is already there.

At least the US actually tries to do something about democracy... as limited as its instruments are. China just wants you for your oil. Enjoy your future.

And why the Americans protested against Iraq war ? Why the government ignored the american people and decided to attack Iraq ?

Umm, most americans supported the Iraq war?

I would prefer to be a part of the United Status of Iraq,I would love to.It's better than the rest cowards we have now,they sold our lands and wealth for the Enemy.

So are you in favour of attacking iraq?

And from now on,congratualations the new etremest party that will make new wars.

As I've said before, the Tea Party actually has a pretty strong anti-war sentiment based on libertarianism.

 

[Hezam]

So should the United States also do something about that? Moreover what if the United States "left you alone?" Guess what, China and every other country would keep buying your oil and the House of Saud would still be there. Oh wait... China is already there.

If we speak in to the American logic then the United Status should change the dictators,But what i always say is that The US must stop supporting the curropted system in the Arab world,the US must let the people decide their future.
And you really suprised me about China,Chinese buy the oil not stealing it,China didn't attack and occupy the land,they make deals respectfully,We know china more than you do.
I don't know the way you are thinking !!

]At least the US actually tries to do something about democracy... as limited as its instruments are. China just wants you for your oil. Enjoy your future.

Wow !! i see....they tried soooooooo hard to kill democracy,They will never allow Arab to have democracy..And i can't believe what you just said !

Umm, most americans supported the Iraq war?

No,most americans are against Iraq war,But Bush didn't lsiten to them...!

So are you in favour of attacking iraq?

I'm not sure if you got me wrong or ..?
Also,With my highest respect,from your post i can see how far you are from understanding the issue here,Please don't get me wrong but i can see that you may don't have a background about the middle east issue,The United status of Iraq is not what will happen if Iraq took over the rest of Arab land or the middle east.
So i would like to ask you what time did you study about the middle east ? i mean witch period ? The 19 century ? the past 50 years ?
I'm interrested to know your background about the ..Let me call it "The Arab-Islamic world" instead of the Middle East.

As I've said before, the Tea Party actually has a pretty strong anti-war sentiment based on libertarianism.

I was reffering to The Republican Party that won the elections,they are religious extremests like Bush.

 

[Oddler]

Very interesting topic I think. So allow me to participate.

First of all, so many things are already said here but still I'd like to express my own feelings.

I totally agree that America's foreign policy is the worst thing. Just because of self-proclaimed role of messiah of democracy, whose mission is to bring the "right things" to every single corner of the world. But the question is how necessary it is. No country has a right to teach another country what to do. But USA is above all rights. For "great justice" it is. Well, when USSR was in Afghanistan supporting loyal government, US was supporting Taliban troops. USSR was "THE EVIL". Now, USA is in the Afghanistan fighting the same terrorists, but why should US be treated "good" then? What is the difference between USSR and USA in this situation? Anyone, whose sight wasn't blurred by propaganda can easily say that there is no difference.

So the main problem is there is no REAL danger for America or if there is no even REAL interest, America would act like a supervisor of the whole planet. But no one ever granted this permission to USA, and that's annoying.
All big and powerful countries act this way, more or less. But America's "crusade for democracy" is far greater.

Did America have one REAL reason to bomb Iraq and most importantly former Yugoslavia? Does Americans got hurt in there or something? No. "For the great justice" it is, like I said before.
Not speaking of Afghanistan here because of 9/11 and other stuff like whole opium industry in that country. I think Afghanistan war is reasonable.
But, to be honest, you're now fighting your own "old friends" there. I think it's obvious that most of modern Afghan terrorist organizations was created during civil war in late 70's in order to fight against USSR troops. Information about Operation Cyclone i think is easiest to find in the internet (but not the only one), if someone want to look deeper.

And that "great justice" is not a real thing? Why then America didn't start a war with North Korea? I do not think that there is more democracy than in Iraq or Yugoslavia. Because there is no gain for USA. And because China doesn't want a battlefield to appear near its borders. This means all those speeches about democracy is a lie. If US can't do something or the cost of doing something is high, than who on Earth give a **** about democracy? And that what every country does. But no country claims that they are fighting for freedom and happiness of the whole world when fighting for own national interests. No country, except USA.

And except foreign policy I think America is just a typical advanced state. With it's own good and bad sides.

Conclusion: USA is certainly not an "Evil Empire", but must know its place in the world arena. And learn to be less ambitious.

P.S.
Of course, seeing where I'm from, a proud American can say "Wait a minute? Didn't your evil motherland attacked Georgia and ripped its territory two years ago? So shut up".
Allow me to prevent this kind of action:
first, it would be sort of "ad hominem" argument.
second and the main point is that citizen who got killed there have Russian passports and citizenship and Russian peacekeepers was under Georgian attack. I have no doubt what's gonna happen to those who attack American and NATO peacekeepers. And bot Russian and Georgian politicians should be blamed for that war.
The point is that America fights not when its citizens in danger, but everytime and everywhere when it has "National interests" whatever it would be. As I said, "for great justice".

P.S.S.
Nowadays media can brainwash anyone, especially about democracy things. This means every single problem discussed here should be considered very carefully with facts only. But I think it's impossible to gather all the confident people here. So I think it's just a friendly (I hope) talk here and let it remain in this state.

Hope my English is understandable for everyone.

 

[Nuala]

So should the United States also do something about that? Moreover what if the United States "left you alone?" Guess what, China and every other country would keep buying your oil and the House of Saud would still be there. Oh wait... China is already there.

☝

At least the US actually tries to do something about democracy... as limited as its instruments are. China just wants you for your oil. Enjoy your future.

You are being excessively rude to Hezam, noyhauser. He contributes to the forum more than you, and you should be above such cheap comments as a member of the moderation team. Furthermore, Middle Eastern countries pioneered many innovations that are still in use today, you may inquire about them on Google.

Umm, most americans supported the Iraq war?

Did you know that in one of W's autobiographies he actually states he wanted to invade Iraq prior to even being elected president? I wish I could quote it for you, but you'll find it if you look. Perhaps Google. As for me, do you know I was 14 years old when we invaded Iraq/Afghanistan? I think Afghanistan was necessary to at least attempt to flush out terrorist groups, and Saddam should have been taken care of about 20 years ago, and I did support my older friends who enlisted and then died fighting for an old man's desire for war powers. No, I didn't support the war. I hated it and I hated the war mongers who wanted it so badly. We started the new millennium with bloodshed. Oh, the mass anti-war feelings kinda point towards Americans not wanting a war whatsoever.

As I've said before, the Tea Party actually has a pretty strong anti-war sentiment based on libertarianism.

I stopped reading this right after you mentioned the tea party. Farewell.

 

[Navy Guy]

And here I go again....
Thor,
Just because you do not agree with Noyhauser doesn't give you the right to denounce him.
If you are anti-govt, anti-war, anti-whatever then you have the right to voice YOUR opinion just as Noyhauser has the right to voice his. Thats the great thing about the country you live in, everyone has the right to voice their opinion, even Noyhauser.

If you do not like the stance of a particular political group then I suggest you learn more about them from credible sources so that you can actually debate their "misguided" ways with a supporter, not saying that I or Noyhauser are supporters.

The fact that you defended Hazem intrigues me since he pretty much said that I (me) deserves to die because I serve in the military... but yet you voiced no outcry that a person who seems to be held highly in your eyes for his contributions wants another member DEAD. Interesting that you said nothing... or did you just skip over that? here let me help you Dec 7, 2010 14:46:

this is what I wrote:
That is offensive to ME! I AM IN THE MILITARY. So you think I should be killed because of some polliticians decisions? Then you are no better than those who make the decisions to go to war. War is a bad but sometimes necessary thing or do you doubt that?

this is what Hazem wrote:
Yes you follow the orders,do you deny that ?
And you said "War is a bad but sometimes necessary thing"..So sometimes it's not necessary

So I guess if Hazem had a gun and I was over in his country he would end up being labeled as an insurgent because he has stated that he wants me dead because of my job, which by the way is to protect your country Thor.

I really am surprised though that this thread is even allowed in a "Japanese Reference" Forum. I think it would have done better on some anti-American forum... so Thor since YOU opened this can of worms what was your intent with this thread? Maybe you should relabel it "who want's to bash America with me!?!"

If you want to talk about war mongers how about the great savior Obama? When I look at the map it seems we are leaving one country as promised but we are now shifting West instead... any anti-war sentiment about Obama's war machine? or did you vote for him buying into the hope and change that hasn't happen?

Finally even people in the military have doubts about the "war" however if we were to just leave what would happen Thor? Don't you think the people over there would be worse off? Or do you not watch the news about their own police chiefs being targeted for death because they support a democracy not a dictatorship lead by terrorist extremists?

I didn't join this forum to have political debates or to listen to people bash my home, I joined hoping there would be some good information and discussions on Japan. That is what the title of this whole site is. personally I can't believe that any country bashing thread even survives here let alone flourishes, if I was to start a discussion on England and allowed people to bash England I am sure that it would have been shut down.

 

[Hezam]

Let me tell you that If i went to the US to occupy or kill people for any interest then i deserve to be punished by the people,kill me or do anything to protect your land.
And you must be clear and honest,Don't try to be the victim.
The proud person is the one who defend his country when it's right and correct it when it's wrong.

If you want to bash my country then go ahead,no one is perfect.

A soldier who went to Iraq is not protecting America,He is destroying it and making a lot of enemies.

 

[Revenant]

I'm not clear on Iraq, cause it mostly seems a war for resources that was thinly veiled as a war on terrorism. I don't think I'd make a great soldier simply cause I'd be skeptical of my nations interest, which like any other nation, is mostly economically interested in resources. To me, through patriotism, religion, or some other, most countries veil their true intent, which is almost always purely a battle over resources.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

I'm American, I love my country, and am mostly proud of it. But no country's policies should be immune from criticism or discussion. I'm not so defensive that I'll take the criticism personally. Of course, I'm not in the military either; like Revenant, I'd make a poor soldier, since I'd usually be questioning orders.

I've never been in favor of the Iraq war. It was based on a Big Lie told to the American people and the people of the world. I think Bush and Cheney should be tried as war criminals. But now that we've busted the place and the people there up, it's less clear to me what to do about it. Complete withdrawal? What happens then?

I was in favor of counter-attacking Afghanistan, because we were told that our military were going after the terrorists who attacked us first. "We'll get them, dead or alive," Bush vowed; and I nodded in agreement. But then the Bush administration let bin Laden and his cronies escape at Tora Bora in 2003. Since then they've apparently been hiding in Pakistan, and we've mostly let them be.

That war, at this stage, makes no sense to me because we cede the enemy safe territory, where they can go to escape, regroup, then attack us again. Also, it's become clear the Karzai government is as corrupt as they come, and a lot of our tax dollars are going for bribes to him and his family. I never would have agreed to go there to prop up a corrupt government that has little popular support; we made that mistake in Vietnam.

I voted for Obama, but have since been convinced that he's just a spineless wimp. He promised to end the wars and bring our troops home, but has put his own political interests ahead of stopping the killing.

Finally, Hezam has a point: if another nation's military invaded my country, I'd take up arms and become an insurgent myself.

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

Hello Oddler from Russia,
In lived for a little more than a year in America, neaer New York in 1966. I noticed that couls guess the origins of the white people although their names were anglicide. All came from Europe, from your country from my country, from Greece or from Norway. All emigrants from our part of the world, I was fascinated by this fact. We Europeans all live in our own countries, have our own languages, our own cultures a.s.o. We shall never be so united as the U.S.A. But there you are it is possible if we emigrate to America, to Australia, Canada or New Zealand. As all different emigrants from your and my Continent we can form a complete new nation with a complete different outlook on life.
I still find it fascinating for we look alike yet we are absolutely different.

 

[Nuala]

Just because you do not agree with Noyhauser doesn't give you the right to denounce him.
If you are anti-govt, anti-war, anti-whatever then you have the right to voice YOUR opinion just as Noyhauser has the right to voice his. Thats the great thing about the country you live in, everyone has the right to voice their opinion, even Noyhauser.

At least the US actually tries to do something about democracy... as limited as its instruments are. China just wants you for your oil. Enjoy your future.

I have every "right" to reprimand him for insulting another member of the forum, especially seeing how he is on the moderation team, and therefore should be above such comments. Ever heard the phrase, "You should know better"?

The fact that you defended Hazem intrigues me since he pretty much said that I (me) deserves to die because I serve in the military... but yet you voiced no outcry that a person who seems to be held highly in your eyes for his contributions wants another member DEAD.

Hezam and I bicker and moan with one another all the time, good "Navy Guy" fellow. The point is I can take a step back and breathe, as he is also capable of doing. Now if he's wished anyone harm, or otherwise stated that someone deserves bodily harm, then it's a prime example of the attitude someone may have when their culture is being attacked by idiots who watch too much FOX News. Now, of course I think wishing harm on anyone is tacky and should be looked down upon, but it also falls to everyone as members of the forum to take a step back, breathe, and not agitate the situation by posting obnoxious, poorly formatted blocks of text. Also, feel free to read the replies I've posted to a multitude of threads in the Serious Discussion sub-forum.

which by the way is to protect your country Thor.

I've had one person I grew up with from Kindergarten die in Iraq. Another friend is currently serving overseas. Neither of them threw their service to the USA around as easily as you are. I don't appreciate it, you cheapen the sacrifices made by all our service men & women.

I really am surprised though that this thread is even allowed in a "Japanese Reference" Forum. I think it would have done better on some anti-American forum... so Thor since YOU opened this can of worms what was your intent with this thread? Maybe you should relabel it "who want's to bash America with me!?!"

You didn't bother to even read the first page of this thread, did you? ☝

I joined hoping there would be some good information and discussions on Japan. That is what the title of this whole site is. personally I can't believe that any country bashing thread even survives here let alone flourishes.

What you're looking for is at the top of the forum index. This forum and others in it's categories have nothing to do with Japan. I shall link you to what you hoped to find.
CLICK HERE! LOL!

if I was to start a discussion on England and allowed people to bash England I am sure that it would have been shut down.

Actually, it would not have been shut down, just so you can refer to this at a later date.

 

[Navy Guy]

Thor,
Since you know NOTHING about sacrifice and service to your country DO NOT talk about it. Just sit back and enjoy what those two people that you "know" are/have done for you. If you think mentioning the fact that I serve in the military cheapens it then you know nothing about what we do or who we are. Go to a veterans home and talk to some for a while. I also wonder how your two friends would feel if they read your thread and saw the comments in here? Why don't you print it off "my good friend" and share it with your local service members at a recruiting station, I wonder how proud you will be then? Or do you just hide behind your screen. Maybe I'll print it off and show it to some and get their reaction.
If your going to to have a conversation with someone don't try to be little them "my good friend Thor" because it weakens your pathetic argument and makes you seem defensive and unsure of yourself, notice how I used it in the paragraph above. Nice big pink link by the way, real adult.
Why would you invite me to read what you have posted in other threads? Have you ever heard this saying? " Once the toothpaste is out of the tube it can't go back. " Think about it what you say in the here and now is what people read/hear and use to form/change their opinion with of a person. So right now my opinion of you is you are angry at the gov't but just sit at your computer and "troll" for other angry people that you can rile up.
Yes I read the first 4 pages of this thread and YOU, the person who started it, has let it become what it is. So in all fairness if your going to allow and encourage a discussion like this you should be prepaired for the opposite views to come out and not try to shut them down. Even someone who, as you put it, "should know better" has EVERY right to voice their oppinion without you trying to censor them. Shame on YOU Thor for trying to take away their First Amendment right, or do you think that it is only for you to have?
Regards,
Me

 

[noyhauser]

If we speak in to the American logic then the United Status should change the dictators,But what i always say is that The US must stop supporting the curropted system in the Arab world,the US must let the people decide their future.
And you really suprised me about China,Chinese buy the oil not stealing it,China didn't attack and occupy the land,they make deals respectfully,We know china more than you do.

I;m sorry, but your comments is not factually correct. On the one hand, you claim that the United States must stop supporting the corrupted system. Of course the United States wants to do that... but its not successful at disengaging from the region because it imports oil from it. However it does make attempts at building civil society so that the foundations of democracy can exist within the Middle East. That means funding for pro-democracy groups and media outlets, education ect. As the recent wikileaks release make clear, US diplomats routinely raise concerns with Arab governments on human rights issues.

China doesn't care about other countries people and have no desire to let Arabs "decide their own future." In reality I suspect the criticisms you're making about the US policy are more true about China. They just want you for your oil and other natural resources, and are absolutely willing to support any corrupt government possible. You see it across Africa; corrupt leaders are paid off by the Chinese system, without any safeguards whatsoever. They don't care about people's rights, they just care about the resources. If they did actually act on human rights, then they would bring scrutiny to their own country.

Wow !! i see....they tried soooooooo hard to kill democracy,They will never allow Arab to have democracy..And i can't believe what you just said !

I'm not sure if you got me wrong or ..?

Look, your earlier post isn't well worded and to be honest I still don't know what you are talking about. What is the "United Status of Iraq?"

Moreover I already addressed your points about the motivations about Iraq in the United States in the Taliban thread. You never replied.

No,most americans are against Iraq war,But Bush didn't lsiten to them...!

Most americans were for removing Saddam before the war. The public was split on whether UN participation was necessary, but most were for removing him. This USA Today Gallup poll in the month before the invasion illustrates that.

Also,With my highest respect,from your post i can see how far you are from understanding the issue here,Please don't get me wrong but i can see that you may don't have a background about the middle east issue,The United status of Iraq is not what will happen if Iraq took over the rest of Arab land or the middle east.
So i would like to ask you what time did you study about the middle east ? i mean witch period ? The 19 century ? the past 50 years ?
I'm interrested to know your background about the ..Let me call it "The Arab-Islamic world" instead of the Middle East.

Post-1945 political and social relations.

I was reffering to The Republican Party that won the elections,they are religious extremests like Bush.

Which is heavily based on the Tea Party's support. Most americans are far more interested in their immediate economic situation, and foreign interventions don't help that. Moreover characterizing them as "religious extremists" is completely inaccurate.

 

[Nuala]

Thor,
Since you know NOTHING about sacrifice and service to your country DO NOT talk about it. Just sit back and enjoy what those two people that you "know" are/have done for you. If you think mentioning the fact that I serve in the military cheapens it then you know nothing about what we do or who we are. Go to a veterans home and talk to some for a while. I also wonder how your two friends would feel if they read your thread and saw the comments in here? Why don't you print it off "my good friend" and share it with your local service members at a recruiting station, I wonder how proud you will be then? Or do you just hide behind your screen. Maybe I'll print it off and show it to some and get their reaction.
If your going to to have a conversation with someone don't try to be little them "my good friend Thor" because it weakens your pathetic argument and makes you seem defensive and unsure of yourself, notice how I used it in the paragraph above. Nice big pink link by the way, real adult.
Why would you invite me to read what you have posted in other threads? Have you ever heard this saying? " Once the toothpaste is out of the tube it can't go back. " Think about it what you say in the here and now is what people read/hear and use to form/change their opinion with of a person. So right now my opinion of you is you are angry at the gov't but just sit at your computer and "troll" for other angry people that you can rile up.
Yes I read the first 4 pages of this thread and YOU, the person who started it, has let it become what it is. So in all fairness if your going to allow and encourage a discussion like this you should be prepaired for the opposite views to come out and not try to shut them down. Even someone who, as you put it, "should know better" has EVERY right to voice their oppinion without you trying to censor them. Shame on YOU Thor for trying to take away their First Amendment right, or do you think that it is only for you to have?
Regards,
Me

Navy Guy, I have tried being very polite to you. And, to be honest, you seem like a troll to me. You're the perfect stereotype of an American, and you compound it further by screaming about how you're defending your country, are above reproach, and yadda yadda. In addition to that obnoxious behavior, you have insulted me grievously too many times now. I am done with you. Continue doing what you're doing, maybe you'll smell the fecal matter at some point and wise up.

 

[Navy Guy]

You talk about insulting while you use your smug attitude. If you think you were being polite you need to realize that by using sayings such as "my good friend" just before you blast some one or using gigantic pink letters for a link comes off as sarcastic. But then again you probably are oblivious to such things and find that behaviour perfectly normal. See how ridiculous it is?

By the way Thor from Illinois what is a stereotypical American? Might you also be one?