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Is Trump ruining America's reputation and influence abroad?

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Hello again, JREF.

My own opinion, in answer to the thread topic, is yes.

The most recent example I can think of is Trump's supporting Saudi's crown prince in the face of the CIA's assessment that the prince was responsible for the gruesome murder of the Saudi journalist.

Trump's motives, as usual, are transparent. He says Saudi Arabia is too important to US economic interests, including a grossly-exaggerated figure, "$400 billion," per year in arms sales. So Trump's overriding interest is making money for the US, morals be damned.

Now I've done it, probably skewed the thread-question answers by tendering my own opinion. But most of you folks in other countries have more important opinions than my own, in answering the thread question, since I live in the US.
 

Lothor

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I don't even think it's about US economic interests, it's about his own economic interests.
There are enormous conflicts of interest between running a chain of hotels, golf courses, etc., and being the president, and I'm sure he'll call in the favour sometime in the future.
 

thomas

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So far, the topic of Mr Trump has - perhaps purposefully - never been raised here at JREF. However, from my (European) perspective of things he's been ruining America's reputation from the first day of his tenure. He is the exact antithesis of what a statesman, a leader of a great nation and any moderately decent person should be. In the greater view of things, his farce of an administration seems to be the proverbial step backwards we need to take before things move forward again.

I did not doubt that Mr Trump would not be incriminating the Saudi crown prince. Hundred-billion-dollar arms deals and his anti-Iranian policies take priority over ethical concerns. Hats off to the governments of Germany, Finland, and Denmark which have halted their arms deals with the Saudi regime.

Also, as tragic as the gruesome murder of Mr Khashoggi is we should not forget that the Saudi crown prince has much more blood on his hands: the Yemen conflict which escalated after a Saudi-led alliance started air attacks has caused 5,200 civilian casualties as well as a famine that caused another 50,000 deaths.

Sadly, America's reputation abroad is already shattered.

Yemeni Civil War (2015–present) - Wikipedia
Yemen | UN News
OHCHR | Yemen: United Nations Experts point to possible war crimes by parties to the conflict
 

mdchachi

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So Trump's overriding interest is making money for the US, morals be damned.
I totally disagree. He doesn't give a crap about the U.S. Everything he does stems from narcissism in its purist form.
On this Thanksgiving day he stated that he's thankful for the great job he is doing (and his family). w.t.f.
I don't know how people like this can exist. And I even less understand how so many people voted for him.
 

Uncle Frank

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And on his plus side , his wife is hot , LOL. I post pro-Trump crap on Facebook every chance I get just to torture my younger sister who is a class "A" Trump hater and super liberal. I also have an old college professor I annoy with pro-Trump posts. I remember an old Navy chief talking about our spy duties being dirty and sneaky and saying the only profession more evil was politics. I think Eisenhower was the last President I trusted.
 

Uncle Frank

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Family history of our own personal civil war. Father/younger sister against mom/older sister/me. Started in the 60's and we still enjoy verbal battles with each other. We don't want to end such a long family tradition , LOL.
 

mdchachi

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Defense of Trump is indefensible. But I never argue about it. If people can't see with their own eyes, nothing I say will open them.
 
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About 35-40 percent of American voters support Trump and hang on his every word. They don't give a damn what anyone abroad thinks. The rest of us dislike or despise the man.

He only won the election because his opponent was Hillary Clinton.
 
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And on his plus side , his wife is hot , LOL. I post pro-Trump crap on Facebook every chance I get just to torture my younger sister who is a class "A" Trump hater and super liberal. I also have an old college professor I annoy with pro-Trump posts. I remember an old Navy chief talking about our spy duties being dirty and sneaky and saying the only profession more evil was politics. I think Eisenhower was the last President I trusted.

Yes, I've heard other Trump supporters say the same thing: their number one reason to support Trump is to annoy the hell out of liberals.

Interesting.
 

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Wow , I guess no family get together this Christmas , LOL. My sister unfriended me on Facebook today and said I should get help. Liberals really do hate Trump supporters I guess.
 

musicisgood

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I like what Trump is doing with the border problem. It takes guts to go up against the corporations. But sad to say, Soros bought stock into the company that won the wall contract.
It's all a game of rewarding your friends.
 

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Soros is the big bad ex-Nazi boggy man according to the internet , who is behind everything evil done by Democrats. He sure seems to keep a low profile in the media. I wonder what his real life history is.
 

musicisgood

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Soros is the big bad ex-Nazi boggy man according to the internet , who is behind everything evil done by Democrats. He sure seems to keep a low profile in the media. I wonder what his real life history is.

I was just posting a fact that how crooked everyone is in Washington D.C.
I don't know Soros or what he stands for , but I did find it amazing that he bought stock into the company that was awarded the first contract to build a fence/wall , whatever they want to call it these days.
Nice to have friends in govt . that can make you easy money.
 

mdchachi

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Wow , I guess no family get together this Christmas , LOL. My sister unfriended me on Facebook today and said I should get help. Liberals really do hate Trump supporters I guess.
I don't know about that. I think they just hate ignorance. I haven't run across an intelligent Trump supporter yet. At least I haven't seen anything intelligent shared on FB. From what I've seen, people who voted for him did so for one or more of the following reasons:
- single issue voters esp. gun "rights" or anti-choice or Supreme Court makeup
- religious right worried about the growing secular society (and the abortion issue)
- racist sentiment masked under a concern for immigration
- traditional fiscal conservatives stuck with nobody else to vote for
- hate for liberals, esp. Hillary Clinton.
- blind belief in his populist rhetoric (that he would "drain the swamp" or bring back manufacturing jobs for example)

Luckily I only have one Trump supporter on my FB feed. A cousin-in-law. There are probably others but he's the only one that posts drivel. I've been tempted to unfriend him. But it's not constant. Just occasional sharing of false or fidiot memes.
 

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What's astounding to see in the American political debate is how the words "liberal" and "socialist" have suddenly become the incarnation of all evil and how many (formerly friendly) governments abroad have turned into "liberal and socialist regimes".

From Merriam-Webster:

(Political) liberalism: a political philosophy based on belief in progress, the essential goodness of the human race, and the autonomy of the individual and standing for the protection of political and civil liberties specifically : such a philosophy that considers government as a crucial instrument for amelioration of social inequities (such as those involving race, gender, or class).

(Democratic) socialism: systems in which extensive state regulation, with limited state ownership, has been employed by democratically elected governments (as in Sweden and Denmark) in the belief that it produces a fair distribution of income without impairing economic growth.
 
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It seems to me "conservative" has been demonized just as much in the left. I think it's not so much particular terms, it's just that our politics are so ridiculously polarized that everyone hates each other.

Personally, I like to think I'm both a liberal and a conservative. Liberal because I champion personal liberty as a core tenant, conservative because I champion traditional values and exercise of caution. There's no need for anyone to draw themselves into strictly-defined, isolated boxes when it comes to political opinion.

In any case, I find hating people that disagree with me to be counter-productive.
 
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nahadef

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Trump (and his supporters) is a massive leap backwards for America, but what's much scarier is the precedent he's set for countries in the 21st century going forward: power proudly without morality, full on propaganda denying facts, and an appeal to bigotry.

It has nothing to do with liberal or conservative ideology. It's just a straight up moral/immoral issue at this point. If you support Trump, especially two years into this regime, you are either immoral or extremely stupid.
 
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I don't know, I still don't see Trump as much different from Bush Jr.

power proudly without morality, full on propaganda denying facts, and an appeal to bigotry.
As someone surrounded by tons of conservative-minded people, including several Trump supporters, I find this whole notion in the Democratic party that bigotry is a major component to Trump's success to be absurd. I have never, ever met a single Trump supporter who has ever said that they support Trump because they expect... whatever the Democrats are insinuating (I'm still not clear on what exactly Democrats are insinuating). Deporting illegal immigrants? Sure, but that's just a standard practice.

I tend to suspect that this whole "racism" thing spouted by the Democrats over and over again is just based on their own interpretations of vapid rhetoric by Trump, which they don't realize (or possibly just don't acknowledge) are being interpreted completely differently by Trump's supporters. Anyway, such vapid statements (commonly heard from politicians) aren't worth arguing over:

Arguing Over Nothing - Invidious

As for propaganda and denying facts, that's nothing new. Politicians do those all the time. Heck, even news outlets do this. So you can't put the blame for this on Trump or his supporters.

Just in general, I don't think it's productive to characterize Trump supporters as monsters. That's just a continuation of United States divisive hatred politics. It's the sort of thing that keeps us weak and keeps corporatism going strong.
 

mdchachi

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Nobody said they were monsters. Just "immoral" or "extremely stupid." 🙂: I would also add a third one and that is "calculated" in that many people think the end justifies the means. They expect to get their conservative judges or whatever it is they think they will get out of this.
I don't know, I still don't see Trump as much different from Bush Jr.
Personally I think there's a huge gap.
Unlike Bush I've never seen any evidence that Trump is "fit to lead." With all the birther nonsense I thought he was unfit from the start. And he has continued showing his lack of fitness on an almost daily basis.

As someone surrounded by tons of conservative-minded people, including several Trump supporters, I find this whole notion in the Democratic party that bigotry is a major component to Trump's success to be absurd. I have never, ever met a single Trump supporter who has ever said that they support Trump because they expect...
... a wall to be built, perhaps? Why do you think he's found so much success with this line of rhetoric?
Why do you think he made a big deal out of the immigrant caravan, sending unnecessary active military troops to the border before the midterms? (And completely stopped talking about it after the elections were over). It's not a matter of securing borders. It's a matter of stoking fear. Who is most receptive to this?
Even white supremacists high-fived each other when he won.
 

Lothor

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Adding to mdchachi's comment, a common phenomenon is that when a hard-line nationalist/racist
gets elected and starts using strong rhetoric, the less hinged members of society become emboldened.
Recent examples include the spike in anti-Korean hate speech and demonstrations shortly after Abe was first elected, the increase in racist attacks immediately after the Brexit vote in Britain (which was partly motivated by anti-immigrant/racist/nationalist sentiments), and the increase in racist attacks (a 70% increase in anti-Semitic incidents in the US from 2016 to 2017) since Trump became president. I expect we will see a similar increase in attacks on gay people in Brazil in the near future.

So anyone fit to be president does not make inflammatory comments because of the consequences that it has. And with Trump, there are many many other reasons why he is not presidential material.
 
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... a wall to be built, perhaps? Why do you think he's found so much success with this line of rhetoric?
Trump always characterized "the wall" as having a gate. It's a (misguided) initiative against illegal immigration, not immigration itself.

Why do you think he made a big deal out of the immigrant caravan, sending unnecessary active military troops to the border before the midterms?
I never heard that, but it sounds like more rhetoric regarding illegal immigration. Key word, again, being "illegal".

(And completely stopped talking about it after the elections were over).
Oh, that's just par for the course when it comes to politicians. Talk big during an election, then shut up about it and hope your supporters forget about your impossible promises.

It's not a matter of securing borders. It's a matter of stoking fear.
I'm not entirely convinced that the right-wing talking point about immigration is rooted in fear, but assuming it is, bigotry does not follow from fear of illegal immigration.

On a side note, you do remember that illegal immigration was a big Republican talking point years before Trump even considered running for office, right? It's standard Republican rhetoric. I don't see how attributing Trump's anti-illegal-immigration rhetoric specifically to him is appropriate when the party he ran for was saying the same sorts of things already.

Even white supremacists high-fived each other when he won.
Unless you're trying to utilize the guilt by association fallacy, I can't see why you would bring this up. The fact that bigots support Trump does not necessarily mean that Trump's campaign is based on appealing to bigotry.
 
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