Thinking of burning the Koran

[RolandtheHeadless]

One crazy Christian preacher with a small congregation says he's going to burn the Koran. . . and the next thing you know, they're holding a mass protest in Kabul and burning the US flag.

So General Petraeus says this talk of Koran-burning endangers US troops and our mission in Afghanistan. I don't like our mission in Afghanistan -- not after Karzai stole the last election, along with millions of US tax-dollars in graft for his brother and cronies.

I really don't want to offend anyone's religious sensibilities, but have an idea. If some unknown preacher can generate a mass protest in Kabul, what would happen if every American burns a Koran? Maybe the people in Afghanistan and Iraq will rise up in mass and drive us out of there!

Then we could stop wasting our lives and treasure meddling around in those countries.

 

[Haruspex]

If everyone in the world burned a Koran, there would be none left. We could then move on to burning Bibles.

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Find a good English version of the Koran.

I was amazed how much of the Koran matches up to the bible. It almost seemed to be writen at the same time as the bible , but from the point of view of a different culture. I think PalTalk has some rooms where you can ask questions and discuss the Koran.

Uncle Frank

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

If everyone in the world burned a Koran, there would be none left. We could then move on to burning Bibles.

With winter approaching, I'm thinking of running some tests to measure the heat output from burning a Bible versus burning a Koran. If I switch from a Bible- to a Koran-heated home, will I save money?

Sometimes conversion might make sense.

 

[noyhauser]

One crazy Christian preacher with a small congregation says he's going to burn the Koran. . . and the next thing you know, they're holding a mass protest in Kabul and burning the US flag.
So General Petraeus says this talk of Koran-burning endangers US troops and our mission in Afghanistan. I don't like our mission in Afghanistan -- not after Karzai stole the last election, along with millions of US tax-dollars in graft for his brother and cronies.
I really don't want to offend anyone's religious sensibilities, but have an idea. If some unknown preacher can generate a mass protest in Kabul, what would happen if every American burns a Koran? Maybe the people in Afghanistan and Iraq will rise up in mass and drive us out of there!
Then we could stop wasting our lives and treasure meddling around in those countries.

Well, I think the situation in Afghanistan is far more complex than most realize. Corruption in afghanistan isn't precisely based on pure greed like in other countries. Rather it reflects a social order that has developed over the past thirty years, which has a foundation in traditional society. Tribal networks were a key part of Afghan society, particularly in the Pashtun south. Within these groups, patronage was an critical part maintaing cohesion.
This isn't a phenomenon that is limited to Pashtun tribes; there are variations of it within all
ethnic groups. this became apparent in the years after the Soviet invasion, when patronage was used by warlords to form militias. Its even an institutionalized part of government as employees are frequently given insufficient amounts of money and expected to make up the shortfall by abusing their position.

I'm not saying this to excuse the behavior of Karzai. Patronage, corruption is an important factor behind the Taliban's dramatic rise. It needs to be controlled in order to effectively fight against them. However its not easily dealt with.

I will say this, if we leave and the taliban return, two things will happen. First there will be a return to a period like the early 1990s where warlords fought it out across the country for supremacy. There are a couple reasons for this; the Taliban right now is basically a heterogenous movement that operates a bit like a caravan. People join on for a similar destination (the fall of the Karzai government) but not necessary the same aim. It will take a couple of years but the Taliban will once again consolidate power. In order to shore up their legitimacy they are likely to again push more extreme forms of Islam. This is one of the only ways it can distinguish itself from other groups and was a major source of support after 1995. This means greater support for groups like the Tehrik-i-Taliban in pakistan and Al Qaeda.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

If the Afghan people want the Taliban to rule them, then why should we stop them?

 

[noyhauser]

If the Afghan people want the Taliban to rule them, then why should we stop them?

So when did the Afghan people actually indicate they wanted the Taliban to rule them.

 

[Hezam]

The result of burning Quran is clearly dangerous,At least Muslims don't burn Holy books.
It's freedom of idiocy and non-responsible acts.

If the Afghan people want the Taliban to rule them, then why should we stop them?

Say it to the black house and the Republican/Democratic Party.
Actually they need an enemy to show their muscles and to test new weapons.

So when did the Afghan people actually indicate they wanted the Taliban to rule them.

In 1996.

And it won't effect Afghanistan or Iraq only,Muslims won't keep quiet.

 

[Hezam]

Watch this video from Bret.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

I've seen on TV images of people in what looks like a Middle Eastern country burning the American flag countless times. To many Americans, this is extremely offensive. Apparently that particular preacher decided to retaliate by burning the holy Quran. Pure stupidity if you ask me.

Stupid, but ultimately harmless, I think. It seems clear to me that although a lot of Americans may sympathise with the man, his burning of the Quran is an isolated event in a large country with freedom of expression. He is free to burn any book he wants, and we are free to think he is an idiot for doing so.

 

[Hezam]

So Should the government prevent him and who join him or not ?

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

The government can't legally prevent him from burning the Koran. And I don't think many will join him. This preacher is doing this only for media attention. If others start burning the Koran, the media will eventually get bored of the whole thing and stop watching.

"Say it to the black house and the Republican/Democratic Party.
Actually they need an enemy to show their muscles and to test new weapons."

Hezam, when you say "black house" are you referring to the opposite of white, as in pure? Or are you commenting on Obama's race? If the latter, you might offend many black Americans with that term.

Obama inherited these two wars from Bush. He could not possibly have ended them both overnight, without endangering people. And he must work with the constraints of domestic US politics to end them at all.

 

[Hezam]

The government can't legally prevent him from burning the Koran. And I don't think many will join him. This preacher is doing this only for media attention. If others start burning the Koran, the media will eventually get bored of the whole thing and stop watching.

That's why sometimes i find democracy sucks.

"Say it to the black house and the Republican/Democratic Party.
Actually they need an enemy to show their muscles and to test new weapons."

Hezam, when you say "black house" are you referring to the opposite of white, as in pure? Or are you commenting on Obama's race? If the latter, you might offend many black Americans with that term.

OF COURSE i meant the opposite of white cuz that house is creating wars everywhere wether American people agree or reject it.
I can't say black to who you call them black,in Arabic we have another beautiful word instead of Black (Aswad in Arabic),It's ( Asmar instead of Aswad ).
Don't worry,Arab are not racists and some Arab are black and my best friend is Asmar from Sudan.

Obama inherited these two wars from Bush. He could not possibly have ended them both overnight, without endangering people. And he must work with the constraints of domestic US politics to end them at all.

Obama is nothing than a toy,he is very weak as i see him.

Something else,Don't Muslims have the right to defend their Holy book as a democratic option ?

 

[noyhauser]

In 1996.
And it won't effect Afghanistan or Iraq only,Muslims won't keep quiet.

Last I checked its 2010 not 1996.

Moreover the Taliban takeover wasn't as popular as you'd like to argue. First off, the movement was largely successful in the south (the Greater Kandahar region) because its opponents were weak and fighting amongst themselves. They were able to use pakistani support and manipulated tribal alliances to win the south.

I agree part of their appeal was a strong religious sentiment that most Afghans could understand (this changed later.) The Taliban provided law and order, which was welcome by the populace who were weary from war. However it faced a serious challenge when it confronted different groups like Ahmed Massoud's Jamiat-i-Islami. If it wasn't for the pakistani ISI who raised nearly 6000 madrassa students after the disasterous campaign in 1996, the taliban would have never taken over Afghanistan. Really it was Pakistani support, not any overwhelming desire for islam that determined the Taliban's takeover.

The Taliban had very little support in northern regions (the May 1997 collapse of their offensive in Mazar-i-Sharif is an excellent example.) By 1999 and 2000 the Taliban's support in the south was wearing thin as well due to the brutal practices they implemented. You had serious uprisings in Kunar Province (1997) and Khost (2000). In general the eastern tribes were very much against the Taliban, as were the Hazaras in central Afghanistan. The best proof is that when the 2001 invasion came the Taliban recieved no support from any pashtun tribe in the south, even the Ghilzai from which Mullah Omar hailed from.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

"Something else,Don't Muslims have the right to defend their Holy book as a democratic option ?"

They'd have the right to hold a public celebration of the Koran. Or to burn the Bible, if they wish. But they don't have the right to stop someone else from burning the Koran.

This preacher is clearly trying to send a message of hate; he says Islam is the religion of Satan. Most Americans disagree with that message. We can express disapproval, but we cannot stop him from expressing his hatred.

 

[noyhauser]

"Something else,Don't Muslims have the right to defend their Holy book as a democratic option ?"

They'd have the right to hold a public celebration of the Koran. Or to burn the Bible, if they wish. But they don't have the right to stop someone else from burning the Koran.

This preacher is clearly trying to send a message of hate; he says Islam is the religion of Satan. Most Americans disagree with that message. We can express disapproval, but we cannot stop him from expressing his hatred.

Well actually there are laws that allow you to prosecute religious hate speech. I think its also important to note that there are many in the US that are condemning this act. This New York Times article covers it pretty well.

 

[RolandtheHeadless]

I don't see any reference to such laws in that article. A city or state might try to enact such a law, but it wouldn't be constitutional, imho.

If this Koran-burning turned into some kind of riot, the police could shut it down as an imminent threat to public safety. So long as the event remains peaceful, there's nothing government can do to stop it.

 

[Mikawa Ossan]

what would happen if every American burns a Koran?

Why would I want to burn a Quran? What possible benefit could derive from that? I have no interest in doing anything that would potentially instill more hatred and hostility into an already tense situation.

I find it ironic that in the beginning, many people supposedly came to America for religious freedom and to avoid religious persecution. People love to invoke this little bit of history around here. Apparently religious freedom and freedom from religious persecution in America exists only for Christians in the minds of some.

 

[Nuala]

Something else,Don't Muslims have the right to defend their Holy book as a democratic option ?

Hezam, the more threats made against people threatening to burn the Quran, the more you're pushing me over to their side. It's just a goddamn book, okay? Get off the Mohammad teet and think for yourself. It is NOT okay to hurt someone because they're burning a book.

And I'm not persecuting you. You have a freedom to congregate, and worship whatever Gods or Goddesses as you see fit in the United States. I personally worship the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I go to my local Spaghettigogue every Wednesday, and praise the glory of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

In fact, the next time you're in Illinois, let me know. I'll show you the local Synagogue, the local Catholic Church, the local mosque, and the local Spaghettigogue. I'll also show you a cemetery reputed to be haunted that's down the street from my house. There are some Satanists that congregate behind it. Maybe we'd see a few and have a nice little chat.

I am declaring September 11th a very special day. It will be religious book burning day. An emancipation from the subjugation of religion, that the United States of America made possible with the first amendment of it's constitution. I shall burn a Quran, King James Bible, Catholic Bible, Torah, and a copy of the first book of the Twilight series.

 

[Hezam]

Nice comment Mr Bush...No,actually you are funnier then Bush.
You are yourself and not an example for the American people,There is some crzay mad people like you here.

At least you made me laugh

 

[Pachipro]

However crazy and hateful it might be he still has the right under the first ammendment to do so, just as the courts ruled in favor of burning the US flag.

If the Muslims here in the US are preaching tolerance in that they also have the right to build a mosque in the shadow of the World Trade Center, then they should abide by what they are preaching and accept that this nut has the right to burn the Q'ran.

Overseas Muslims are another matter. They may take it out on US troops, but that would show the world that they are NOT a tolerant religion and do not abide by anyone's laws or rights but their own. They would only be hurting themselves if they retaliate in any way, shape, or form.

If this preacher is forced to stop his plan or backs down it will only show the rest of the world that Muslims have the upper hand and that the rest of the world cowers in the corner when they bark or show their disagreement.

It will be interesting to see how this turns out.

 

[Haruspex]

With winter approaching, I'm thinking of running some tests to measure the heat output from burning a Bible versus burning a Koran. If I switch from a Bible- to a Koran-heated home, will I save money?
Sometimes conversion might make sense.

I think you should stay with Koran, for now. The mob that gathers outside of your house upon burning one could not only heat your home, but the whole neighbourhood. You could save some serious money on holidays. But, I guess, you'd have to invest into an expensive security system to keep the mob out of your home.

 

[let`s talk]

The US will lose in Afganistan. Actually they are already losing now. It will be the second Vietnam for America. Will see.

 

[Hezam]

Yesterday German Chancellor honors the person who drew the cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad.

Don't be suprised if Obama or Hilary honored that pastor later.
I'm glad our prophet tought us how to respect the others,The Eastern Church/Synagogue were saved by Islam.

Anyone non-Muslim can live in Islamic land as "Dhimmi" :
Dhimmi - Wikipedia
(This is a direct information link to what is written in Islam Sharia).

 

[Half-n-Half]

Anyone non-Muslim can live in Islamic land as "Dhimmi" :
Dhimmi - Wikipedia
(This is a direct information link to what is written in Islam Sharia).

The U.S. has no need to distinguish someone based on their religion. To the government you are, first and foremost a human being. You quote that as if it is some sort of favor to non-Muslims, but according to the article "Dhimmi have fewer legal and social rights than Muslims, but more rights than other non-Muslims." Yet in America, it doesn't matter if you are a Christian or not, you have the same rights as everyone else.