Japan agrees to stop hunting humpback whales

[Kyoto Returnee]

Anti whaling seems to be fueled with anger, ignorance mixed with racist attitudes towards people who choose to eat a certain type of meat which is unacceptable for fanatics like yourself Sarapva.

Anger at killing the whales for all sorts of reasons with the sole cause of having the whale in mind.

It has nothing to do with being racist or about fanatics.

America and Japan are heavily alligned with Japan, heck, Australia even sent extra troops to Iraq specifically to protect the Japanese troops as their rules of engagement did not fit the situation.

You can hardly say that Sarapva is a "fanatic" simply because she doesn't eat whale!

It honestly sounds like you are the fanatic!

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

I like whale cooking.
Deep-fried whale
I love sashimi of a whale.
I ate well in a childhood.

 

[Haruspex]

I never in my life ate whale, but after this vegetarian propaganda (poor whales, why do they die when killed?), I feel like eating a whale or two lol.

 

[Sarapva]

I like whale cooking.
Deep-fried whale
I love sashimi of a whale.
I ate well in a childhood.

Do you agree with whale-hunting, Hiroyuki Nagashima? I know that might sound like a funny question, but I'm wondering what people in Japan really think about the whaling tradition. Do you think it's a good idea? Or do you think it's something that should be stopped?

Posted by Derfel:

I never in my life ate whale, but after this vegetarian propaganda (poor whales, why do they die when killed?), I feel like eating a whale or two lol.

It's not "vegetarian propaganda" - although if I had to be accused of something, that wouldn't be such a bad thing to be accused of. What I object to, besides killing the whales and lowering their populations, is the way they're killed, slowly and painfully. I think Denmark has a new way to kill whales that's quick and not so painful for the whales. But I think Japan is still using the old ways that prolongs their deaths and makes it an obviously painful trauma.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

(poor whales, why do they die when killed?), I feel like eating a whale or two lol.

Did I miss something.

 

[kame]

Whale is not as important a part of Japanese diet today as it was few decades ago. In the abundance of tasty fishes, meats, and other foods that flood the Japanese market today, whales won't ever reclaim the share they had on the dinner table and may even eventually disappear as the Australian officials would like. However, just like Australians wouldn't like Americans telling them to stop eating kangaroos or crocodiles, the Japanese public instinctively reacts defensively when other countries force their dietary values on them.

In fact, I think the whaling opposition movement did more to awaken the nationalistic emotions to preserve the declining habit of whale-eating than anything else. Whaling, at least in Japan, was a declining industry that was destined to disappear, albeit slowly. Now that few foreign fanatics are trying to impose their cultural values in the absence of scientific background, whaling is a tradition that will be likely to survive a little longer. Look at what has happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. The dysfunctional IWC in which no conscientious negotiations based on scientific facts are possible, will only serve to strengthen the opinions of Japanse voters to abandon it.

In my opinion, the fastest way to effectively eliminate whaling in Japan is to keep the mouths shut and flood the Japanese market with premium beef with 100% BSE testing. Hey, Australians may even export premium kangaroo meat and let Japanese people know that there are much better meat to eat than whales. A Prime Minister shouting on TV telling us what not to eat is just ugly.

 

[centrajapan]

How can anyone with a sane mind dictate to others what to eat and what not to eat? Screw those guys who think of themselves as gods or some higher beings who can moralise other people's eating habits. Fanatics.

Did I miss something

Yes. I am sure you are a decent person and if I ever did meet you we could have a few good laughs together but when it comes to whaling you are completely clueless. The same with Sarapva. She is a nice, spiritual person but on whaling she is not.

 

[kame]

I'm a Japanese temporarily staying in the U.S., by the way.

Green Peace boats harrassing whaling fleets is one thing but a Prime Minister publicly threatening us to harass our ships with their Navy is utterly disgusting.

Most Japanese hardly ever eat whales anymore. With all these craps from few countries, I have seen people getting frustrated and actually more eager to order whale sashimis in izakayas. Popular mangas have dealt with whales as traditional diet and imposing of values by few countries (do you know how influencial mangas are in Japan?).

It may delay humpback whaling for a little, but it will just help increase support for whaling in Japan in the long run. Just leave them alone and keep feeding them really good beef (safety is VERY important too!) and kangaroos.

 

[Hopeanuoli]

No offence, but why did they start hunting humpback whales anyway?

 

[Hiroyuki Nagashima]

A bone of a whale was found from a village trace of Jomon period before 4000 years before about 5500 years in Japan.

 

[Sarapva]

Thank you, kame, for those insights on how Japanese people see whaling. We don't have enough of that here. Being in the U.S. you're in a position to see both sides of this.

I would hope that Japan could listen to what other countries are saying without feeling defensive. They would see that people are just trying to protect the world, which belongs to all of us, and not randomly imposing their beliefs on others. Australia has created a whale sanctuary in the Southern Ocean, so it seems very logical to me that they would resent hunters there and try to fight them off. Any country would do the same in the same circumstances.

 

[centrajapan]

Being in the U.S. you're in a position to see both sides of this.

The only reason why Indians are allowed to whale is because they got screwed by white imperialists but since Japan hasn't got their culture ruined Japan should not whale.

Australia has created a whale sanctuary in the Southern Ocean, so it seems very logical to me that they would resent hunters there and try to fight them off. Any country would do the same in the same circumstances

No they have not. Japan can hunt whales there and that Southern Ocean is international and not Australian. Besides the sanctuary has no basis on a scientifical ground. WHales are not endangered and whaling is a green industry.

 

[kame]

Japanese people don't want whales to go extinct either. The whole purpose of IWC was to scientifically evaluate the sustainable level of whaling activity, which most Japanese who are interested in this issue don't think is what's happening in this dysfunctional organization.

We just can't believe that the anti-whaling sentiments of some Americans and Australians are based on scientific facts, but rather on instinctive prejudice against what they perceive as barbaric habit. Aussies should negotiate with whaling countries to come up with an acceptable number of humpbacks to be caught based on scientific facts. Just denouncing whale hunting altogether is and will be perceived as prejudicial in the eyes of Japanese public.

And again, the irony is that the anti-whaling propaganda is just fueling the often-subdued patriotisim within the quiet Japanese people to eat more whales!

 

[kame]

I would hope that Japan could listen to what other countries are saying without feeling defensive. They would see that people are just trying to protect the world, which belongs to all of us, and not randomly imposing their beliefs on others. Australia has created a whale sanctuary in the Southern Ocean, so it seems very logical to me that they would resent hunters there and try to fight them off. Any country would do the same in the same circumstances.

Observing what goes on at IWC, that's certainly not happening based on scientific facts, and it certainly doesn't sound convincing coming from a country that sends troops to every corner of the world to protect "democracy" and boycott any treaty that impose quantitative restrictions on CO2 emissions.

If you think harassing non-military vessels on international waters with heavily armed navy fleets because they "resent" people catching whales to study their ecology in the "sanctuary" that they unilaterally declared is justified, I am speechless.

 

[Sarapva]

This argument just goes around in circles. I don't think we're getting anywhere with this.

The fact is that most countries in the world are against commercial whaling.

 

[centrajapan]

This was from last year's IWC.

But in backing by 33 votes to 32. Japan and other whaling nations on Sunday for the first time in more than two decades won support for a motion criticising a global whaling ban, signaling they might finally have the muscle to challenge the moratorium.

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Anti-whaling is not the majority world-view. In fact, at both the 1997 and 2000 Conferences of the Parties to the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species, more than half the countries present (about 100 countries) supported the controlled use of minke whales. Many fishing nations including Norway, China, Korea, Russia and Iceland, as well as many developing countries support the sustainable use of all marine resources (including whales) and research programs that provide for science based resource management decisions.

highnorth.no

Do you think it is OK that Native Americans in Canada and USA hunts whales? Is it just Japan you have something against?

 

[kame]

If US and Australia (and other anti-whaling nations) really care about preservation of whales as a marine resource, they should work toward controlled commercial whaling rather than toward total banning. Whales should be regarded as renewable marine resource like tunas, salmons, and sardines which must be carefully monitored to prevent exhaustion but otherwise wisely used and consumed.

To single out whales and apply unexplicable standards that you wouldn't apply to tunas or salmons implies that there is something more than purely environmental intensions. Japanese people may seem obedient but aren't fools so they do sense the underlying cultural prejudice and react defensively.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

Can't believe this thread is still going LOL..

I don't think the against group is siding with their governments, but rather simply expressing their own personal opinions like I am.

The for group appears to be influenced by the Japanese government somewhat, after all, are they not the one's who are so determined to keep slaughtering the whales?

I guess it has a lot to do with the way we were all brought up as kids, cultures, countries, etc.

We as kids in Australia were taught to respect, understand and ultimately appreciate the beautiful creatures.

Don't get me wrong here but they have performing whales at aquariums in Japan that I refuse to visit, so one minute the kids are being taught to laugh at them, the next eat them! Bit of a cliche ya?

I tend to think the way animals are treated in Japan, although not limited to, including many parts of Asia, is barbaric.

If you are in Kyoto , make sure you visit the local Kyoto Zoo if you can call it a zoo.

When I visited, a lion was housed in what was an approximate 4 x 4 metre room with a concrete floor and glass window.

Two seals were kept in a small pond with a 1 x 1 metre island.

Those animals may now be dead, just hope they haven't trapped a wild whale and now dropped it into the pond..

I have also heard reports about the capture of wild baby whales for Japanese aquariums, and then the poor creatures die due to their capture.

As for the guys against the Australian government pursuing Japan because each year, Japan defies a ban on killing whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary - a massive feeding ground in the Antarctic Ocean that the International Whaling Commission has declared off-limits for commercial whaling - saying its program is exempt because it is for scientific purposes. Well, law is law just forgetting the poor whales for a minute.

 

[Haruspex]

Australia states her opinion, thats fine, but as long as whales aren't endangered, as long as they're aren't going extinct whats the problem with whaling? Lets open some fund for cruelty against strawberries and cherry trees because they are being harvested cruelly ok?
If they're no harvesting more than they can eat, let them do it.
On the other hand, every country has its motives, and it is foolish to brand Australians dumb, idiots or whatever. They simply know what they want, and they're willing to achieve it by any means, you can't blame someone for that.

 

[pipokun]

No offence, but why did they start hunting humpback whales anyway?

The IWC debate on whaling originally started how we could preserve the natural resource.

We as kids in Australia were taught to respect, understand and ultimately appreciate the beautiful creatures.

Obesity, the result of unnessesary creature killing, is what your kids have to be taught.

 

[Kyoto Returnee]

The IWC debate on whaling originally started how we could preserve the natural resource.

Japan defies a ban on killing whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary - a massive feeding ground in the Antarctic Ocean that the International Whaling Commission has declared off-limits for commercial whaling

Australia states her opinion, thats fine

Not Australia, the International Whaling Commission

Japan defies a ban on killing whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary - a massive feeding ground in the Antarctic Ocean that the International Whaling Commission has declared off-limits for commercial whaling

 

[centrajapan]

How some animals are caged in Kyoto has nothing to do with why Japanese eat whales. Japanese are no more or less barbaric than people who eat or who doesn't eat whales.

Japan defies a ban on killing whales in the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary - a massive feeding ground in the Antarctic Ocean that the International Whaling Commission has declared off-limits for commercial whaling

Japan is not defying any kind of ban.

Japan's whale research programs are perfectly legal. Article VIII of the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling (ICRW) specifically provides for members of the IWC to issue permits for the killing of whales for research purposes. Article VIII of the ICRW begins with the words "Notwithstanding anything contained in this Convention…" Further, both the moratorium and the Antarctic Sanctuary apply only to commercial whaling. Contrary to claims by Greenpeace, Japan's whale research programs are not a violation of the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS). Nothing in the UNCLOS diminishes or restricts in any way, rights provided by the ICRW.

highnorth.no

What Japan does is perfectly leagal. Japan is doing research and not a commercial hunt.

The right to issue research is enshrined in Article VIII of the 1946 Convention. Whilst member nations must submit proposals for review, in accordance with the Convention, it is the member nation that ultimately decides whether or not to issue a permit, and this right overrides any other Commission regulations including the moratorium and sanctuaries. Article VIII also requires that the animals be utilised once the scientific data have been collected.

iwcoffice.org - This website is for sale! - iwcoffice Resources and Information.

Not Australia, the International Whaling Commission.

Australia is defying the whole meaning of the IWC.

Sustainable use and proper management of all marine resources should be based on scientific findings. Indeed, Article V of the International Convention for the Regulation of Whaling requires that it's regulations be "based on scientific findings".

Criticism of Japan is based on emotional reasons and it ignores both science and international law and is a rejection of the basic principle of IWC.

Australia signed a declaration that they pro,ised to work towards the best interests of the whaling industry based on scientific findings. Australia is workign against a document that they have signed under. They are the ones breaking the rules and they are the ones who ignore science and the only reason why they are against Japan is irrational emotional feelings. Because they look at whales as some special animal.

 

[kame]

I guess it has a lot to do with the way we were all brought up as kids, cultures, countries, etc.
We as kids in Australia were taught to respect, understand and ultimately appreciate the beautiful creatures.
Don't get me wrong here but they have performing whales at aquariums in Japan that I refuse to visit, so one minute the kids are being taught to laugh at them, the next eat them! Bit of a cliche ya?

Here in the US, kids are playing in the petting zoo with cows and lambs one morning and eating hamburgers for lunch. I guess there are no kangaroos or crocs in Australian zoos? The anti-whaling hysteria is a bit too much coming from a country where people shoot wild kangaroos for fun.

 

[Sarapva]

Do you think it is OK that Native Americans in Canada and USA hunts whales? Is it just Japan you have something against?

We've had this argument before, centrajapan - subsistence whaling by tribal communities is different from a modern country like Japan going out and killing hundreds of whales. Now you're going to argue that it's no different, and this argument will go around in a circle again.

Whales and dolphins are mammals, which makes them different from other fish like tuna and salmon. They're actually not fish.

Posted by Kyoto Returnee:

I don't think the against group is siding with their governments, but rather simply expressing their own personal opinions like I am.

The for group appears to be influenced by the Japanese government somewhat, after all, are they not the one's who are so determined to keep slaughtering the whales?

Thanks for clarifying this, Kyoto, and for staying in this argument that's a good test for patience! (I think the "accusers" on this thread are actually guilty of what they're accusing others of being!) I'm glad the new Australian prime minister is against whaling. This will probably get some changes made.

 

[centrajapan]

We've had this argument before, centrajapan - subsistence whaling by tribal communities is different from a modern country like Japan going out and killing hundreds of whales. Now you're going to argue that it's no different, and this argument will go around in a circle again.

I don´t think you have answered me though before but if you have previously I must apologize for not having read the answer to my question.

Whaling people across the world share pretty much the same sentiments be it Japanese or Inuits in Alaska, Norwegians, Indonesians. However it is anti tolerant whalers who like to put people in labels. Modern people cannot whale but primitive people can etc.

Inuits and Native Americans support Japanese whaling. So do Inuits in Greenland. Therefore it is a paradox that people like you don´t. This is imperialism.

Japan is not hunting any critically endangered whales.

Myth - Whales are all the same.
Fact - "The whale" does not exist. There are 80 species of whales. A killer whale is about as different from a gray whale as a wolf is from a buffalo.

Myth - Whales are almost extinct.
Fact - A few species of whale are threatened with extinction. But most species are extremely numerous. Even though several of the larger whales have been greatly depleted, the gray whale for instance is now back at its original stock size.

Myth - Modern industrial whaling has made several species extinct.
Fact - No species have been made extinct even though several species have been severely depleted. Industrial whaling no longer occurs. Today, whales are caught for food. Whale species that are endangered are not caught at all.

Myth - The whale is an intelligent creature.
Fact - There is no proof that whales in general or certain whale species in particular have intelligence distinguishing them from other animals.

Myth - The whale has a gentle nature.
Fact - Orca, or Killer whales, kill larger slower swimming whales.

Myth - Whales choose a partner for life.
Fact - Geese are monogamous - whales are essentially unfaithful.

Myth - Each whale has a distinct personality.
Fact - All animals have a distinct personality.

Myth - There is no humane way to kill a whale.
Fact - All modern methods for killing animals are humane. Killing methods used in Norwegian and Japanese whaling are the fastest and most effective in the world.

The World Council of Whalers respects the historic traditions of all societies that carry out whaling on a sustainable basis, and consequently the Council does not distinguish between commercial and non-commercial sustainable whaling. The World Council of Whalers exists so the views of all whaling nations are given representation; not just those of our members who sell whale products.
The Council recognizes that whaling is carried out today all over the world. Whaling has never stopped. Whalers, like farmers, fishers, trappers, and tappers, sell the product of their work: hunting for food is an essential part of some coastal peoples' livelihoods. These forms of livelihood exist in indigenous societies as well as non-indigenous societies. You can buy whale meat in Greenland supermarkets and restaurants and in Canadian shops, as well as in shops and restaurants in Japan and Norway.

http://www.worldwhalers.com/publications/media_pack.htm#front

Whales and dolphins are mammals, which makes them different from other fish like tuna and salmon. They're actually not fish.

And?