Why Japanese Women don’t want to Date

[Ukigumo]

We had a recent discussion about the projected and precipitous decline in the Japanese population (I couldn't find that thread to post within and suspect that's due to it being one of my many tangents ). I then came across this video

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I agree that Youtube videos vox pop for entertainment rather than carefully curated data, but there must be a thread of truth in what is being said. Those threads seem to be the perceived lack of finance to fund child rearing and young people not wanting to take on the hassle of having children, instead favouring other pursuits. What is interesting is the awareness of these difficulties in young people, something that was less evident in previous generations. Are they as aware of say, adequate pension contributions to prevent poverty in old age? The steps to take in youth to reduce cancer in later life? The management of unwanted hair growth in what were once non-designated areas.

Anyway, what do you think about all this?

 

[mdchachi]

I'm not sure they are so much different from youth around the world in advanced economies with declining birth rates. One thing that is different in Japan is that they are not weighed down by Judeo-Christian attitudes. This results in a very different attitude towards abortion. This video would have you believe they are all happy alone even implying they have no intimacy/sex but I'd guess there's a significant hook-up culture going on. And if an unwanted pregnancy occurs chances are they terminate it. Whereas in the U.S. we have a large cohort of unwed people having babies without much thought for the future consequences of that decision. In the U.S. we've even had idiot shows that promote teen pregnancy in a sense. (Look up Teen Mom, 16 and Pregnant, etc.)

 

[Ukigumo]

We have a documentary called '22 Children and Counting' in which the Redford family have, you guessed it, 22 children!

In the UK we have a pretty comprehensive welfare state so having more children can result in an household income well beyond one required to look after those children. Termination of unwanted pregnancies, although not entered into lightly and requiring stringent criteria, isn't a societal or moral issue in the UK.

 

[mdchachi]

In the U.S. we have myths about "welfare queens" and income you receive by being poor or having children. While it's true you can get some money to help with the welfare of children, it's subsistence level. i.e. about $500/month for those with incomes less than $1000/month. And you can't receive it for more than 5 years (in my state). Basically it's enough to keep people from starving while ensuring they remain in poverty. It's not incentive to keep having kids. Or it shouldn't be anyway.

I think the Americans were first (as we often are when it comes to lowbrow culture). We had a similar tv show 15 years ago called 19 Kids and Counting about the Duggar family. The TV show went off air in 2015 after the eldest was accused of molesting underage children (his sisters mostly).

 

[Ukigumo]

It's amazing what the hoipoloi like to watch

Back to Love Island…

 

[thomas]

Am I glad I'm not on the meat market anymore!

Related to the discussion above:

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Why Japanese Women Don’t Want to Marry Anymore

Right now in Japan, more women say they do not want to get married. In 1980, the unmarried rate for women was about 4%, meaning most women eventually married. Today it is about 23%, or roughly one in four women.

newsonjapan.com

 

[Lothor]

Interesting video. It's significant that it was fairly even-handed about why men and women don't want to get married, but the article title firmly focuses on women not wanting to marry.

 

[Ukigumo]

Interesting video. It's significant that it was fairly even-handed about why men and women don't want to get married, but the article title firmly focuses on women not wanting to marry.

That's because they're in charge. They allow us to do things. We all know it.

 

[johnnyG]

... The management of unwanted hair growth in what were once non-designated areas.

Anyway, what do you think about all this?

I'lll have to think on this one for a while. (just trimmed my beard today)

 

[mdchachi]

Meanwhile we're seeing regressive attitudes among Gen Z men. It's not clear if they surveyed Japan or not in this "global" poll.

Gen Z men are more likely to believe that a wife should obey her husband than other generations, research has revealed.

 

[Achilles 1-1]

Based on what I've read, Japanese women are obsessed with working 80 hour weeks, and how dare men assume that if they get married and have kids they stop working to raise them. This is the exact reason I've just decided not to move to Japan anymore, I'm still wanting to move to a different country, but I'm not trying to date nor marry a woman who wont put aside her work to marry and raise a child. So, the expectation of marriage and slashing their work hours for potential children is probably what deters them from even dating in the first place. (Remember that this is only my opinion, and I expected it to be treated as such.)

@mdchachi put this in his(?) response: Gen Z men are more likely to believe that a wife should obey her husband than other generations, research has revealed.

This is because a good chunk of Gen Z men (less than the majority, but more than a quarter) around 34%-48% were Christian, and Christianity calls for a wife to submit to her husband. Beyond that, a more recent trend in the younger Gen Z show more right-leaning, conservative views, which is founded upon Christian ideologies, which again, says a woman is to submit to her husband.

 

[mdchachi]

Based on what I've read, Japanese women are obsessed with working 80 hour weeks, and how dare men assume that if they get married and have kids they stop working to raise them. This is the exact reason I've just decided not to move to Japan anymore, I'm still wanting to move to a different country, but I'm not trying to date nor marry a woman who wont put aside her work to marry and raise a child. So, the expectation of marriage and slashing their work hours for potential children is probably what deters them from even dating in the first place. (Remember that this is only my opinion, and I expected it to be treated as such.)

Your mistake is saying "Japanese women are..." Or any statement such as "<Group of people> are..." It comes down to individuals and everybody is different at an individual level. Even if your statement is true on average (which I don't believe it is), it doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who are not that way.

 

[Achilles 1-1]

Your mistake is saying "Japanese women are..." Or any statement such as "<Group of people> are..." It comes down to individuals and everybody is different at an individual level. Even if your statement is true on average (which I don't believe it is), it doesn't mean there aren't plenty of people who are not that way

The New York Times, a leftist, woke, liberal, however you want to call it, makes a few fair points:

1. Loss of Independence. In a 2023 survey, around 40% of Japanese women said that marriage or dating "puts a limit on my activities and lifestyle."
My take: How dare we expect you to slash your work hours to raise a child.

2. The "Double-Burden" Most Japanese women don't want to work full time and raise a child.
My take: How dare we expect you to slash your work hours to raise a child, expect you to do household chores, etc.

3. Financial Independence. As they progress through their jobs, most women don't need to marry for economic security.
My take: Yes, because money is far more important than marrying, and raising a child. You go, girl.

4. Lack of suitable partners. Many women don't want to be the only one doing household chores or raising the child by themselves.
My take: I actually understand this. I don't want my wife to force me to do everything on my own, so this one gets a pass, because this is the mans fault.

5. Marriage-hunting fatigue. Many women are exhausted by the high expectations and rigid gender roles.
My take: Yes, because it's so shocking that most men want to treat the wives like a queen without her having to lift a finger.


To explain my last take, psychologist Carl Jung explained that most men find individuality, and that without a wife, men become one-sided and rigid. according to Jung, men also over-identify as the strong, successful career persona, which leads to hidden insecurity, and that without a women for a man to love, he cannot truly be bound in the concrete world, and describes the rejection of a mans "feminine side" (which, to be very clear, he means the part of a man that craves emotional, intimacy, and love) as weak, or insecure masculinity. In conclusion, while somewhat unrealistic, many men feel as though treated their wife like a queen, recognizing her value, is the best kind of married life they can have.

 

[mdchachi]

1. Loss of Independence. In a 2023 survey, around 40% of Japanese women said that marriage or dating "puts a limit on my activities and lifestyle."
My take: How dare we expect you to slash your work hours to raise a child.

This means over 50% are interested in marriage or dating. As for who works, doesn't work, should be mutually agreed upon by the couple. Preferably before marriage.

2. The "Double-Burden" Most Japanese women don't want to work full time and raise a child.
My take: How dare we expect you to slash your work hours to raise a child, expect you to do household chores, etc.

You're assuming they want to work. I think many/most would be happy not to work. But economic realities require them to work unless their partner makes enough to allow them not to.

3. Financial Independence. As they progress through their jobs, most women don't need to marry for economic security.
My take: Yes, because money is far more important than marrying, and raising a child. You go, girl.

Not working, lack of independence is a big risk. If their partner ends up being a loser or, worse, abusive, then they are stuck in a miserable, even life threatening, situation.

4. Lack of suitable partners. Many women don't want to be the only one doing household chores or raising the child by themselves.
My take: I actually understand this. I don't want my wife to force me to do everything on my own, so this one gets a pass, because this is the mans fault.

It's difficult to find a good partner.

5. Marriage-hunting fatigue. Many women are exhausted by the high expectations and rigid gender roles.
My take: Yes, because it's so shocking that most men want to treat the wives like a queen without her having to lift a finger.

I really don't think most men are like that. Many men just expect their marriage to be an extension of their mothers. So for the woman in those situations it's basically like having another child in the house with no real benefit. And, sadly, many men are abusive. So while men have high expectations for a caring, loving, beautiful wife, women often get stuck with abusive, deadbeats.

To explain my last take, psychologist Carl Jung explained that most men find individuality, and that without a wife, men become one-sided and rigid. according to Jung, men also over-identify as the strong, successful career persona, which leads to hidden insecurity, and that without a women for a man to love, he cannot truly be bound in the concrete world, and describes the rejection of a mans "feminine side" (which, to be very clear, he means the part of a man that craves emotional, intimacy, and love) as weak, or insecure masculinity. In conclusion, while somewhat unrealistic, many men feel as though treated their wife like a queen, recognizing her value, is the best kind of married life they can have.

Jung is a product of his times. Though I'm not sure your conclusion follows from his theories anyhow.

 

[johnnyG]

Not working, lack of independence is a big risk. If their partner ends up being a loser or, worse, abusive, then they are stuck in a miserable, even life threatening, situation.

It's not just "a big risk", it's economic blackmail of the worst type:

The man claims "it's better" if the wife is a sahm 'for the kids's sake', which--if it works out that way--effectively ruins the wife's future and creates a huge dependency on the husband...

...who because of that misogynistic economic leverage, can then abuse the stay-at-home spouse, increasing demands in any way they want, while the sahm has been checkmated. The husband can even leave her for a newer, younger model, while the sahm is vulnerable.

Not that it needs to be placed there in order to recognize it, but in any other context, it's power harassment. Undue/unfair advantage, plain and simple--cloaked in the BS reasoning of, "do it for the children", or like the rest of the above, "it's a woman's place".

If the kids are so important, the husband should be bending over backwards trying to help, and/or take over child-rearing from the wife.

**
@mdchachi The post you replied to reeks of incel-ism. I admire the apparent patience in your response.

 

[Achilles 1-1]

It's not just "a big risk", it's economic blackmail of the worst type:

The man claims "it's better" if the wife is a sahm 'for the kids's sake', which--if it works out that way--effectively ruins the wife's future and creates a huge dependency on the husband...

...who because of that misogynistic economic leverage, can then abuse the stay-at-home spouse, increasing demands in any way they want, while the sahm has been checkmated. The husband can even leave her for a newer, younger model, while the sahm is vulnerable.

Not that it needs to be placed there in order to recognize it, but in any other context, it's power harassment. Undue/unfair advantage, plain and simple--cloaked in the BS reasoning of, "do it for the children", or like the rest of the above, "it's a woman's place".

If the kids are so important, the husband should be bending over backwards trying to help, and/or take over child-rearing from the wife.

**
@mdchachi The post you replied to reeks of incel-ism. I admire the apparent patience in your response.

I don't see how me listing some reasons, and giving my honest opinion, implies that I do not consider myself unable to sexually attract a woman. None of that up there is me giving my two cents on why Japanese women dont want to marry, it's just me listing some reasons and giving my two cents on THOSE reasons. So saying something I said reeks of "Incle-ism" is by extension calling me an incel, when in fact you know absolutely nothing of my love life, so I kindly ask you to please do not use such words to describe me. And honestly, throwing that line in just feels like you're trying to get a cheap shot on a 16 year old (16 on Monday) kid.

 

[dracuella]

I don't see how me listing some reasons, and giving my honest opinion, implies that I do not consider myself unable to sexually attract a woman. None of that up there is me giving my two cents on why Japanese women dont want to marry, it's just me listing some reasons and giving my two cents on THOSE reasons. So saying something I said reeks of "Incle-ism" is by extension calling me an incel, when in fact you know absolutely nothing of my love life, so I kindly ask you to please do not use such words to describe me. And honestly, throwing that line in just feels like you're trying to get a cheap shot on a 16 year old (16 on Monday) kid.

It is not a cheap shot. You are, as you point out yourself, a 15-year-old boy and you're commenting on the lives of grown, working women on the other side of the globe with such infuriating callousness. When I read your initial post, the one @mdchachi so diligently commented on, it made me proper angry and, if you had been older gave me 'red flag' vibes.

You present such a one-sided, keyhole view of the world. You're making blanket statements, painting (Japanese) women as, in your opinion, selfish, money-grabbing, lazy leeches depending on the scenario.

You're speaking from the narrowest point of view possible, you're a 15-year-old boy, going on 16, Christian raised American who has never been in a serious relationship where children, home, and financial difficulties are involved. You've never been faced with having to exchange your chances of a professional career with having children. You've never had to experience going back to work early because you can't afford to stay home with your newborn anymore. You've never experienced what it means to feel forced to choose between children and a career, and you probably never will because of the combination of your gender, your religion, and your place of living.

It sounds to me like you live in a world where what you're describing is the norm, or you're presented with the idea that it should be the norm. But this is not how the world works. Your 'norm' is not the only one. This is not what all women want.

And that is valid. Women are people, not just wives and mothers.

It is my honest opinion that you lack the maturity, life experience, and worldliness to be able to make objective, unbiased comments on these issues. I'm not trying to be mean; I'm pointing out that your views of the world are extremely unnuanced. That when the grown men of this forum, who have this maturity, who have lived the life-experience, take the time to give perspective, to explain why your opinions are naive or uninformed, or come across as old-fashioned and, quite frankly, a little sexist, you really should listen. Because I'm a woman and I have a feeling you won't listen to me.

 

[Achilles 1-1]

It is my honest opinion that you lack the maturity, life experience, and worldliness to be able to make objective, unbiased comments on these issues. I'm not trying to be mean; I'm pointing out that your views of the world are extremely unnuanced. That when the grown men of this forum, who have this maturity, who have lived the life-experience, take the time to give perspective, to explain why your opinions are naive or uninformed, or come across as old-fashioned and, quite frankly, a little sexist, you really should listen. Because I'm a woman and I have a feeling you won't listen to me.

I don't know how to put into words of why my mind doesn't listen to your guys opinions, so maybe you guys can explain that to me. This is my best attempt though.

And I don't not listen to people who are women, my arguments up there consisted of listing what the New York Times says, and my (sarcastic) opinions. Let me be clear: My intent was NOT to paint Japanese women, or any women, in a negative light. My intent was to highlight a few good reasons, along with the more selfish ones.

And yeah. That was a cheap shot. I've been in a relationship before, so calling me an incel was just plain incorrect.

 

[mdchachi]

And yeah. That was a cheap shot. I've been in a relationship before, so calling me an incel was just plain incorrect.

I'm pretty sure he was commenting on your attitude, not your love life. But you're right in that it probably wasn't the best choice of word.

 

[Ukigumo]

An interesting idea…

 

[salyavin]

It's not just "a big risk", it's economic blackmail of the worst type:

The man claims "it's better" if the wife is a sahm 'for the kids's sake', which--if it works out that way--effectively ruins the wife's future and creates a huge dependency on the husband...

...who because of that misogynistic economic leverage, can then abuse the stay-at-home spouse, increasing demands in any way they want, while the sahm has been checkmated. The husband can even leave her for a newer, younger model, while the sahm is vulnerable.

Not that it needs to be placed there in order to recognize it, but in any other context, it's power harassment. Undue/unfair advantage, plain and simple--cloaked in the BS reasoning of, "do it for the children", or like the rest of the above, "it's a woman's place".

If the kids are so important, the husband should be bending over backwards trying to help, and/or take over child-rearing from the wife.

**
@mdchachi The post you replied to reeks of incel-ism. I admire the apparent patience in your response.

While true I also want to mention in older households the wife got the paycheck and often had significant secret savings, my mother in law sure does even though she was a sahm. It helps a lot but I would still say all your dangers above are still relevant. This is called hesokuri. Hesokuri And Okozukai