Godppgo, I kinda agree with you to the extent that war is simply an inevitable part of human's history. But I do find your overall views on wars and human evolution very much disturbing.
It's funny and eerie at the same time to discuss "human development" at the cost of vast number of human lives. Without the least regard and respect for human life, whose development are we talking about here?
A dead man cannot pursue a higher standard of living, can he?
Social Darwinism is a very destructive thing with long-lasting effects when applied as a political philosophy. When Europeans colonized, then later exited Africa and parts of Asian, they probably didn't expect the effects to be reverberating a century later. In recent memory, Europeans have been perplexed by the heated and wide-spread Muslim reaction to a few cartoons. What they don't appreciate is that, what they see as harmless cartoons, are seen from the Arab eyes as the condescending attitude from former colonizers.
When Japan set out on its empirial journey, many of Japan's sons had exactly the same romantic ideology of elevated human development as you do today, Godppgo. I don't honestly believe they started their conquest with murderous intentions. THe emperial army's sacred and grand mission was to elevate Asia from its darkness to the enlightened "higher standard of living"....
What happened later is history.
Enough Godppgo bashing, hehe.
My 2 cents on why there is a perceived hatret toward the state of Japan among some Asian countries, specifically, China and Korea:
From where I sit, the underlying reason may have little to do with what Japan did in WWII, but everything to do with the current geopolitical reality.
Godppgo, here you brought up a good point that every nation should define itself by what it want to be. Put on my idealist hat and I totally agree with you. But the recent surge of Chinese & Korean nationalism is not about China and Korea's national identities, but about Japan's national identity and the role Japan should play in Asia.
There are a few reasons that I can think of why from a geopolitical perspective it makes sense for China to keep pressing Japan on the WWII/Shrine issue.
1. For political capital in the battle over western pacific waters/islands and the underlying resources.
2. The tightening strategic alliance between Japan and US worries China.
3. Prevent Japan from becoming a UNSEC permanent member, which in turn is a function of the above two reasons.
4. Genuine distrust of the Japanese nation rooted in the atrocities committed by the Japanese army in WWII.
As demonstrated by the amicable Sino-Japan relationship in the 70's and 80's,
China and Japan can reconcile over the history issues and have rather successfully done so in the past. For the two countries to re-gain the friendly relationship, leaders of both countries need to show their political wisdom and courage.
PM Koizumi and whoever becomes his successor, need to realize that while paying homage to a nation's lost sons in wars is perfectly normal, worshipping war criminals is a totally different issue. Japan has squandered quite a lot of political capital over this stupidity and it's time to re-define Japan as a nation capable of differentiating normal nationalism from historial obliviousness.
Also, present and future leaders of Japan need to re-calculate its strategic position with regard to China. At the end of the day, neither country wants to wage a war for the gas and oil under the pacific water. A tough stance does not get the problem solved. If Japan truly is the self-proclaimed civilized model of Asia then it needs to be capable of resolving issues through negotiations and discussions instead of purchasing weapons.
China is going steadily toward the direction of a regional and global power. It has also been engaging in strategic talks with the US to further mutual understanding. In light of these advancements Japan's position toward China in the recent years seems not only stubborn, but also to its own detriment.
I am about 2.3 miles away from the topic here but here is the point: if we work out the practical issues between us, I am absolutely optimistic about the future of the Sino-Japan relationship.
This region has some of the most splendid cultures, some of the most advanced technologies, some of the most vibrant economies, and mostly importantly, some of the most smart and industrious people this planet has ever seen, we should be capable of more than hate and distrust in the historical mud.
godppgo said:
Last couple of weeks have been hectic for me and finally I have time to make some comments.
Many of my arguments centered on the theme of humans pursuing a higher standard of living. I've defined the human evolution as the process of humans pursuing a higher standard of living. The term ﾂ"higher standard of livingﾂ" I used here refers to terms such as life expectancy, education level, social ideologiesﾂ…etc.
One of the major evolution developments resulting from WWII is today's war crime awareness by the aggressor countries such as Germany and Japan. Today, many German and Japanese youths abhor nationalism because of the painful memory their grandparents had gone through. This to me, is an indication of an elevated social development in Germany and Japan. As to the gap between German and Poland/Netherlands/Denmark during WWII, the biggest gap between them is military technology gap.
I agree with bossell wars are started by various circumstances and that's why I said war is ﾂ"oneﾂ" of the ways for human evolution to occur, not the only way human revolution occurs.
Human evolution is a relative term. What I considered a evolution might not be the same to others or vice versa. There's no model to compare to when measuring how ﾂ"advancedﾂ" we as humans are. I look at human evolution more of a process of adapting to present Earth and social conditions. I should've used the word ﾂ"adaptﾂ" instead of ﾂ"upgradeﾂ" to make my point more clear and I apologize for that. I also agree that it's sometimes better to downgrade. It all comes to adapting to the changing Earth and social envrionemnt.
Anyways, this is going way off thread topic.
good.
..... that poster's English illiteracy re-enforces the notion he can only present propaganda ( distorted ) materials,indeed can't debate issues at common knowledge level.
