Why Johnny can't read, but Yoshio can?

anomouse · 10 Jul 2008

Japanese education compares favorably with American education system.
Dr. Richard Lynn explains why.

ttp://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_n21_v40/ai_6745944

THERE CAN be no doubt that American schools compare poorly with Japanese schools. In the latter, there are no serious problems with poor discipline, violence, or truancy; Japanese children take school seriously and work hard. Japanese educational standards are high, and illiteracy is virtually unknown.
The evidence of Japan's high educational standards began to appear as long ago as the 1960s. In 1967 there was published the first of a series of studies of educational standards in a dozen or so economically developed nations, based on tests of carefully drawn representative samples of children. The first study was concerned with achievement in math on the part of 13- and 18-year-olds. In both age groups the Japanese children came out well ahead of their coevals in other countries. The American 13-year-olds came out second to last for their age group; the American 18-year-olds, last. In both age groups, European children scored about halfway between the Japanese and the Americans.

pipokun · 10 Jul 2008

Seeing from the result of PISA, the Programme for International Student Assessment, you can categorised into two groups.

a) Wide within-school variance: Finland, the US
b) Wide between-school variance: Germany, Japan

One of the reason why Japan can spend much less money on the secondary education than other OECD countries may be the early selection in the name of entrance examination of high school. At least, teachers expect, more or less, to teach some similar students with same knowledge.

Finnish quality of education, American dynamism of education, German style of early career development, free education like Denmark, ambitious students like in China, cleaning a toilet/class room by students, and less public spending like Japan. But it sounds too idealistic.

Metal detectors at school, boring school lunch, or English education like Japan...
I would be pleased to choose more home-schooling in such a country.

Glenski · 10 Jul 2008

Yoshio can read? Uh, think again. Writing, too, is a growing problem.
Language Log: Japanese literacy: back to the future again?

The evidence of Japan's high educational standards began to appear as long ago as the 1960s.

Obviously, you have not seen some of the recent HS students, nor heard of the serious grade inflation taking place in Japan. Heck, even the Japanese teachers cheat to get their licenses!

Then again, the quoted article in the OP is from 1988...go figure.

nice gaijin · 11 Jul 2008

I wonder if there are studies that correlate the growing trouble with kanji with the decline of handwritten notes and messages in the face of easier input methods via cell phones and computers...

Isn't this the second such article on this subject in the past few weeks that seems to gloss over the obvious flaws in the Japanese education system?

Glenski · 11 Jul 2008

Ryall's article (mentioned in the link I gave) states the connection between cell phone usage and a decline in ability to handwrite kanji. I'm not surprised. Many students can't even use a keyboard on a computer because they are so used to thumbing on a cell phone pad instead.

Here is a related article.
http://japundit.com/archives/2005/02/15/139/

This blog article mentions a 2004 study, too.
http://naruhodojapan.blogspot.com/2007/05/can-you-write-in-kanji.html

JimmySeal · 11 Jul 2008

Glenski said:
Ryall's article (mentioned in the link I gave) states the connection between cell phone usage and a decline in ability to handwrite kanji.

While it's highly likely that cell phones and computers are causing a decrease in ability to write kanji from memory, Ryall's article is easily as dubious as the one anomouse posted, referring to "Kanken DS" as a "software maker," and discussing a study that seems to have not been conducted.

I found this part particularly amusing:

Software maker [Rocket company] ... was surprised to find that 90 per cent of the 400 people aged between 35 and 40 who took part in a study were unable to recall all the correct number and positioning of strokes for the 1,945 characters that are taught in public schools.

Japanese people surprisedthat adults don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of stroke orders for all the joyo kanji? Sure.

And the first link you posted, along with this page both heavily criticize Ryall's article.

tokapi · 11 Jul 2008

It's funny to read slipping Kanji ability among Japanese as suggested,while in truth they are above ( can read & write Chinese characters better than ) average mainland Chinese population.

There have been news reportings of some American public high schools fabricated or artificially inflated students' grades to meet the national standard.

Regarding computer internet usage effect on Kanji,it's the same scenario in Taiwan & Hong Kong so this issue is not limited to Japan.But,the impact scale is miminal as it won't cause revert increase of illiteracy.

Charles Barkley · 11 Jul 2008

Maybe yoshio can read, but little shinsuke at the high schools I teach at sure struggles with it. I found this part funny:

"In (Japan), there are no serious problems with poor discipline, violence, or truancy."

Welcome to fantasy land ladies and gentlemen. I have nothing to say about the overal education system in either country, since I attended a top notch American public high school and teach at a low level farming school here in Japan, but the above generalization is a joke.

anomouse · 11 Jul 2008

I don't know which school you attended and which you school you teach at, but that's totally irrelevant. The comparison is between "AVERAGES"!!

pipokun · 11 Jul 2008

Charles Barkley said:
...
since I attended a top notch American public high school and teach at a low level farming school here in Japan, but the above generalization is a joke.

Yes, it must be a joke that even a low level school invites an English speaker from other countries.

I am just wondering why your school was/is a top notch. Is it just because your school district was so wealthy that its budget was sufficient? And it would be nice if anyone describe what low level schools in the US are like.

It is not about high schools, but I think it is the great American dynamism that the top level universities don't accept student only from the top notch high schools.

JimmySeal · 12 Jul 2008

pipokun said:
Yes, it must be a joke that even a low level school invites an English speaker from other countries.

☝
Where did that come from?

anomouse said:
I don't know which school you attended and which you school you teach at, but that's totally irrelevant. The comparison is between "AVERAGES"!!

The line Charles quoted was:

"In (Japan), there are no serious problems with poor discipline, violence, or truancy."

It doesn't say "very few." It doesn't say "comparatively less." It boldly states that there are none and that is not a statement of "AVERAGES", as you put it.

Glenski · 12 Jul 2008

Just a follow-up to my July 10 statement.

Education board chief in Oita apologizes for corruption

Saturday 12th July, 05:43 AM JST

OITA —

The chief of the Oita prefectural education board on Friday apologized for a corruption scandal involving recruitment of teachers in the prefecture. On the alleged bribery over recruitment exams for teachers at public schools, Fuminori Koya, school superintendent, told a press conference, ''I sincerely apologize for it,'' he said. ''I'm at a loss about how to explain it to the children.''

He was referring to the recent arrest of five people over the giving and taking of bribes involving the recruitment exam. The education board, meanwhile, dismissed Ikumi Asari, an elementary school principal who is among the five, on Friday following her indictment earlier this month. Asari, 52, allegedly gave cash and gift vouchers, worth 4 million yen in total, to a senior education board official, Katsuyoshi Eto, last year in order to secure a successful result in the recruitment exam for her son and daughter, according to the indictment.

© 2008 Kyodo News.

anomouse · 12 Jul 2008

So how is the news relevant to "why Johnny can't read, but Yoshio can"?

KirinMan · 12 Jul 2008

In the latter, there are no serious problems with poor discipline, violence, or truancy; Japanese children take school seriously and work hard.

I wonder where or what school and what generation this Doc is taking his information from to come to the conclusions that he did.

No serious problems....Hmmm, anyone remember the 12 yr old girl a few years back that stabbed her classmate to death? Oh let's talk about the kids that go through 9 years of mandatory education with only about a 10% attendance rate and they still graduate.

Should I continue?

There are problems with schools here just as there are problems with schools in the US neither system is perfect and in my opinion to try and compare the two is the same as trying to compare apples and oranges, oh sure they are both fruits but that's about it.

Why Johnny can't read, but Yoshio can?

anomouse

先輩

pipokun

先輩

Glenski

Just me

nice gaijin

Resident Realist

Glenski

Just me

JimmySeal

Tubthumper

tokapi

後輩

Charles Barkley

TNT Basketball Analyst

anomouse

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pipokun

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JimmySeal

Tubthumper

Glenski

Just me

anomouse

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KirinMan

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