Why do many Chinese and Koreans hate Japanese?

[Mark of Zorro]

Ah, the "you are blind" argument. You give yourself too much credit for having vision, and too little respect to others for having a different one than yours. It's genuinely arrogant, and no way to have a discussion.

As far as that topic goes, its just true.

And its not just vision. Its also fear making people not voice their real opinion as well as fear making them not scratch the surface or listen to reason. Its true dammit. Its like I am one of the few people who left the Matrix. I just cannot relate you people inside.

There is a big uproar on Yahoo! about little girls wearing lingerie, and a particular 14 year old girl being called a "little girl". Nobody liked the fact that I pointed out that she was waaaay too fat for anyone to care. But they did not even notice she was fat because they were so much in a tizzy about her underwear! Its nuts. Girl is obese and they wring their hands over her being "sexualized". Never mind her health! Freaking insane dude. Its the Matrix.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

As far as i know all the people who died in battle during the showa emperor era are listed as Martyrs of showa. There's nothing more to be said about this.

What part of their executions did you not understand?

 

[Eudaimonia]

What part of their executions did you not understand?

You probably can't read. Read again...

As far as i know all the people who died in battle during the showa emperor era are listed as Martyrs of showa. There's nothing more to be said about this.

Meaning... there's no special honours about anyone. Actually as far as i know the animals that died in service are honoured as equals with them too!

Also, your response wasn't much of a response.



Edit: I read his "reply".... Ah, now i get it. The "died in battle" part was his only objection from my VERY large text, and he decided to focus on that and only that slight mistake. How lame and convenient is it to hold on to only 3 words (a slight mistake) out of a huge text and focus only on that?

He sure exposed me to the truth that one shouldn't make any mistakes (link to the many types of people that are enshrined in Yasukuni) when he's against the man with the whip - zorro.


Anyway, i stop this here. I wasted my time enough with this guy.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

You probably can't read. Read again...

"As far as i know all the people who died in battle during the showa emperor era are listed as Martyrs of showa. There's nothing more to be said about this. "


Meaning... there's no special honours about anyone. Actually as far as i know the animals that died in service are honoured as equals with them too!

They did not die in battle.

They were executed as war criminals.

Again, what part of "they were executed" did you not understand?

Also, your response wasn't much of a response.

As for my short response, you have only proven what a waste of time it was to respond to you. That was evident when you sidestepped the issue of the over one thousand class B and C war criminals enshrined there and only only since the 70s.

My replies are only going to be brief and in pieces, only for the purpose of showing others how completely screwed up you are. I have no intention of trying to change your mind. You have some back-handed motive here, and I will not play into it.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Edit: I read his "reply".... Ah, now i get it. The "died in battle" part was his only objection from my VERY large text, and he decided to focus on that and only that slight mistake. How lame and convenient is it to hold on to only 3 words (a slight mistake) out of a huge text and focus only on that?

No, you don't get it. I pointed out two problems with your long post and will point out more later....but at my own pace, slowly and carefully. I am not going to crawl into the mud pit with someone who can go to such detail and length with so many "proofs" and still think there is a leg to stand on give Yasukuni a big "meh", or think the Japanese government has rendered a real believable heartfelt apology.

He sure exposed me to the truth that one shouldn't make any mistakes (link to the many types of people that are enshrined in Yasukuni) when he's against the man with the whip - zorro.

I have lost interest in exposing you to the truth and said as much. Now its just about making sure no one follows your lead. At this point, I am more concerned that Thomas gave your first post a "like".
I am not sure why you included that link, but surely you realize that the eligibility criteria of "executed" was only included long after the war, and I dare say, long after the start of the enshrinement of souls at Yasukuni and long, LONG after the creation of Shinto . These priests are obviously just making it up as they go, and one has to wonder at their motives for such a drastic change.

Anyway, i stop this here. I wasted my time enough with this guy.

You have posted enough fodder for a week at least. We might not notice your absence.

But, if your motive here was truly truth, justice and fairness, I would expect you would be a lot more patient. Believe me, I will apologize most humbly to you if I find I am wrong about you. But I have been shafted by nasty uyoku wanna-bees trying to glorify or otherwise gloss over war and Japan's sick past too many times to be trusting.

 

[nahadef]

As far as that topic goes, its just true.

And its not just vision. Its also fear making people not voice their real opinion as well as fear making them not scratch the surface or listen to reason. Its true dammit. Its like I am one of the few people who left the Matrix. I just cannot relate you people inside.

There is a big uproar on Yahoo! about little girls wearing lingerie, and a particular 14 year old girl being called a "little girl". Nobody liked the fact that I pointed out that she was waaaay too fat for anyone to care. But they did not even notice she was fat because they were so much in a tizzy about her underwear! Its nuts. Girl is obese and they wring their hands over her being "sexualized". Never mind her health! Freaking insane dude. Its the Matrix.

My last post still holds true. Perhaps even more so now. I think we can all see Zorro is blinded by emotion on this topic. Blind.

 

[Eudaimonia]

No, you don't get it. I pointed out two problems with your long post and will point out more later....but at my own pace, slowly and carefully. I am not going to crawl into the mud pit with someone who can go to such detail and length with so many "proofs" and still think there is a leg to stand on give Yasukuni a big "meh", or think the Japanese government has rendered a real believable heartfelt apology.

But, if your motive here was truly truth, justice and fairness, I would expect you would be a lot more patient.

So, your strategy is you take one sentence of my original thesis at a time, then you reply to it -> then you take one sentence of my reply to your reply at a time and point out one mistake at a time!!!!!!!

In short: You plan on spamming the place with little mistakes that i might have made (never said that i'm flawless) so that it seems like you're correct when the reality will be that all of my conclusions which will be by then pages away still stand. That's surely something i will not tolerate. You should give one huge reply with valid arguments that answers everything that i've written, because you talk a lot about wanting to know what i'm about, testing the water etc bs but actions (your actions) speak louder than words and spamming isn't serious replying.

I have lost interest in exposing you to the truth and said as much. Now its just about making sure no one follows your lead. At this point, I am more concerned that Thomas gave your first post a "like"

Believe me, I will apologize most humbly to you if I find I am wrong about you. But I have been shafted by nasty uyoku wanna-bees trying to glorify or otherwise gloss over war and Japan's sick past too many times to be trusting.

You have posted enough fodder for a week at least. We might not notice your absence.

How mighty pompus of you masked avenger.

Anyway, who are the "we" that might not notice my absence? Do you have an imaginary friend? Your whip? Maybe you mean Korra, lol. Maybe you think that you speak for everyone.

You will receive no real responses (responses that really give answers to your spam) from me until you completely stop this LAME spamming strategy of yours. I mean that you'll have to give one reply to my reply to you and then a full reply to my original post, and that's it, no spam. Otherwise, the only thing that you might receive is me making a version 2.0 of my original thesis, a version that will contain less mistakes and have the same conclusions (!) BUT also it will be about double the size of the first verson with way more links and photos. This will be because i don't apreciate someone spamming me instead of raelly replying honestly.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

The Japanese have never given compensations nor apologized to the comfort women.

True or False? False, the Japanese have given compensations on 2 seperate occasions. The second time it was accompanied with a personal apology from the prime minister!

No names or dates here, so its hard to be sure what he is talking about right away.

Before I get into detail about this I just want to point something out. In 2007 the U.S. House of Representatives passed a resolution calling on the Japanese government to apologize to the comfort women and include the story of their plight in public schools. While this does not prove Eudaimonia wrong in and of itself, but it does go to show that when someone claims Japan apologized and paid, there are some pretty big players saying NOT!

Next, an important thing to realize is that "comfort women" is something of a euphemism. There were professional prostitutes rightly called comfort women, who served officers basically and were paid and treated with respect and who signed up for the job. We are not talking about them. We are talking about SEX SLAVES. We are talking about women tricked into the job or forced to do it. We are talking about women who were paid criminally low wages, no wages at all, or paid in worthless imperial scrip, basically they just were not paid. And to make it all worse, so many were worked to death, as in raped to death. And survivors endured some of the most horrible conditions and brutality imaginable.

To try and lump those SEX SLAVES in with the comfort women is an attempt to bamboozle you. Sadly, even people on the right of this issue have fallen for the trick.

Okay now into the meat: the personal apology by the PM...ahem. First Eudaimonia claims Japan apologized...then he says "personal" apology. Seriously folks, its stuff like this that makes me very suspicious of him. Why would you say Japan apologized, then downgrade that to the PM apologized, then shift to a "personal" apology? Smells like an attempt at sleight of hand to me. And who is the PM anyway? Does he represent Japan? Come on. Japan changes PMs like every 6 months! He is a glorified muppet. What could his personal apology possibly count for? Nothing is the answer! Only an apology officialized by the Diet of Japan could possibly count for anything. But the Diet perpetually refuses to do this. How can a country possibly be seen as remotely apologetic when its legislature refuses to apologize for anything and either refuses any proposals that are apologetic or literally writes out the word "apology" before approving?

Next, the compensation. In 1965 the Japanese government paid compensation to the Korean government for victims of forced labor and those killed during the colonization period in the Treaty on Basic Relations. Not only were the sex slaves not specifically mentioned, note that this was not to the Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, Filippinas or anyone but the Koreans only. And also note that even the Korean sex slaves never saw any of that money, because the Japanese government and Korean government kept the agreement secret, which clearly tells you the Japanese government did not really give a damn about the victims, but just wanted off the hook. The Korean government kept the money for public works projects, and the Japanese never said a word about it. Further proving they DID NOT CARE about the sex slaves or any victim.

Treaty on Basic Relations between Japan and the Republic of Korea - Wikipedia

It was not until 2005 that the Japanese government revealed the compensation money (which again, never mentioned the sex slaves or included their number into victim estimates). And remember that all that time that former Korean sex slaves were coming to Japan demanding compensation, the Japanese government NEVER told them about that money!

So obviously the 1965 compensation money does not count for jack diddly squat. It was not for the sex slaves, not even the Korean ones, and no sex slave ever saw any of the money and the Japanese government conspired to make sure they didn't.

Next I think Eudaimonia is talking about the Asian Women's fund (another pretty euphemism so OBVIOUSLY designed to deny the truth!) This fund was not paid with tax money. It was set up by the government yes, but all it did was take donations from the people. In other words, the government AGAIN sidestepped responsibility! And in the end only 364 women in S. Korea and the Philippines ever got any money!!! 364!!!

Asian Women's Fund - Wikipedia

And this was 50 years after the war!!!

And yeah, PM Tomiichi Murayama signed personal apologies to those paltry 364, but as already stated, that was his personal apology and not the apology of the Diet, and not OFFICIAL.

This is just crap, after crap, after crap. The government of this country constantly dodges responsibility or even straight up acknowledgment of Japan's former sex slaves. Its euphemism and passing the buck, even literally passing the buck!! And yeah, that is why the U.S. House passed resolution 121 calling on the Japanese government to finally come clean.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

You will receive no real responses

You will find the truth and condemn your own first post in this thread or you will prove that truth and justice is not why you came here.

But I am already sold. For all you wrote and cited and still think as you do? No. There is no way you are being honest.

Frankly, I don't want your responses. I want only to bury this stench you have stirred up defending the lies, smoke and mirrors, and utter irresponsibility of the stinky scummy Japanese government.

 

[SevenStarsHK2N]

The problem is that there has never been a Willy Brandt moment.

It's what essentially made the world stop hating Germany - It showed true contrition.

It was the moment when He spontaneously knelt down at a Polish war memorial, which honored those who had been killed by German forces during a Polish ghetto uprising. (in the wet no less)



The second problem is the Japanese Attitude towards the atrocities that were committed.

If you said to a German
"You guys were really bad in the war, you did so many bad things, you killed 9 million Jews!"

The reply you will most certainly never get is
"Actually i think you will find that we only killed 6 million jews, the other ones were communists, gypsies and other ethnics"

It's also the fact that It's not taught to people in schools because ultra nationalist and right wing groups have infiltrated your government and make sure the children are not taught about these things.

don't believe me. well i'm assuming that we have some Japanese people in this forum.

pray tell. How many day's did you spend learning about the EDO period?
How many facts did you learn about the shogun , various uprisings in the 16 and 17th centuries etc?

And how many day's did you learn about WW2
How many lessons were dedicated to the atrocities that Japan committed?

How come I have never met a single German who
1. Does not know what happened in Auschwitz
2. Can't completely out trivia me on anything related to Germany's war crimes.

Yet in Japan.
"Hey what do you think of Unit 731"
answer
"I dunno, are they a band or something?"

I've seen video's by Japanese history teachers, complaining about the fact that while things like the EDO period have several books on them, issues like war crimes usual only get a singular page in History text books.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

- The Japanese have never apologised.

True or False? Objectively false.

And the only proof offered is this: List of war apology statements issued by Japan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Its a long list of statements offered to many countries. But this issue is NOT many countries! Its China and Korea ONLY.

So what was said? Here is an example:

September 29, 1972: Prime Minister Kakuei Tanaka. "The Japanese side is keenly conscious of the responsibility for the serious damage that Japan caused in the past to the Chinese people through war, and deeply reproaches itself. Further, the Japanese side reaffirms its position that it intends to realize the normalization of relations between the two countries from the stand of fully understanding 'the three principles for the restoration of relations' put forward by the Government of the People's Republic of China. The Chinese side expresses its welcome for this" (Joint Communique of the Government of Japan and the Government of the People's Republic of China).[7]

From the Diet? Officialized by the Diet? Not on your Nelly! Its from the PM only. It means nothing. Its meanlinglessness is PROVEN by the fact that the Nanking Massacre is still denied by the government and therefore not in textbooks.

And its typical of all the "apologies". Words only. Look at this bit: "The Japanese side is keenly conscious of the responsibility for the serious damage that Japan caused in the past to the Chinese people through war, and deeply reproaches itself."

Yet their textbooks are horribly inadequate and most Japanese people you talk to are horribly ignorant on what happened in China?? Like I said, words only, and not even officialized words agreed with by the Diet!!!

Even if one were to forgive Japan for the war, how, in the name of Mike, can we forgive them for this continued denial, obfuscation and side-stepping??

Now look at this from Kiichi Miyazawa:

This spirit in the Japan-ROK Joint Communique, and the Japan-China Joint Communique, naturally should also be respected in Japan's school education and textbook authorization.

Operative word is "should". Well, it isn't. In Japanese textbooks they go on and on about the atom bombs. And I have no objection to that. The problem is all that pointing to Japanese victimhood while skipping blithely over Japan running rampage through Asia just previous to that.

And so many of the other "apologies" offer words like "regrettable" which sound more like "its a bummer our plans fell through" than a statement of "we selfishly hurt people and were wrong".

But it still stands that none are from the Diet, most come straight after a denial of war crimes, and Japanese textbooks do not reflect a spirit of being apologetic. Its either hollow words or sincere words from people who don't count and couldn't make a difference.

And let us remember that the current PM, Shinzo Abe, denies there were sex slaves to this day.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

If you said to a German
"You guys were really bad in the war, you did so many bad things, you killed 9 million Jews!"

The reply you will most certainly never get is
"Actually i think you will find that we only killed 6 million jews, the other ones were communists, gypsies and other ethnics"

And that would be a good statement, because its true. But the Japanese response to similar about Nanking would be either the sound of crickets chirping or a statement that there was just some "collateral damage" to the tune of a couple thousand.

I know too few Germans, but the one time I even mentioned the war (in very neutral terms) he started apologizing. I had to stop him. I was actually annoyed by this because 1) he didn't do it and 2) it was not done to me. All the same, I did appreciate that he was not 1)ignorant about the war itself or 2) in such denial of the facts that he tried to BS me. So I did not show my annoyance.

On the other hand I know so so many Japanese, and the only time I remember anyone apologetic like that I am pretty sure the guy simply had a screw loose. He was at Yasukuni (the only time I ever went to that scum hole) and he was crying and pretty much stalking non -Asian foreigners to apologize.

My ex-in-laws were more realistic Japanese. No apologies but no denials of the past. They were very condemning of Japan's war years, but not being responsible, they did not blame themselves. Its the only intelligent and just option and I respect them highly for that.

Edit: to be fair, even I have some problems with the "official" holocaust numbers and some doubts about the "official" Nanking numbers. But its not a numbers game. Its the evil that matters and no realistic change in the numbers will ever diminish the evil.

Edit 2: "The problem is that there has never been a Willy Brandt moment."

if there ever was, the Diet would discuss it and the result would be either to ignore it or to issue a statement stating its not the official position of Japan.

 

[Eudaimonia]

I see no large reply. So, you chose to continue with the spam, why is that? Also, you didn't give a full reply to my answer to your reply to me - i hope this wasn't a concious decision based on that you think that you "won that battle" by spamming me with a slight mistake.


Oh, well... Anyway, i can tell you off-hand that you got several key things simply wrong, and that your messages contain large segments of filler (your comments on things or things that are simply irrelevant) instead of arguments and evidence! The argument and evidence part is like ~10 percent of your messages.

I'm telling you this because i wouldn't mind you correcting what mistaken perceptions i may have (as i said, i'm not errorless), and i do enjoy when i have a good argument with someone BUT so far this has achieved neither.


Why not take your time and make one large answer? ...a reply with no filler.

Is it maybe because if one zooms out (takes a look at the larger picture) whatever you may write - whatever slight mistakes i may have made... my argument still stands as a whole?



Edit: (i'm not making a new post about this) I reported Zorro for personally attacking me in the post bellow by saying that i'm not a decent human being. Btw, his reply on Official Development Assistance is his worst filler post yet.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

Responding to your garbage point by point does not make my posts spam.

And no, you have made much much more than just slight mistakes. That would be apparent to you by now if you were a remotely decent human being. You have come in here defending all the talking points of the scumbag, lying rightists and nationalistic revisionists and I think you are well aware of that.

And while I have addressed your "points" your latest post has not been specific about anything. If you think the argument and evidence is only 10 percent, you should have addressed it.

You are exposed. Whatever your purpose here, its not getting to the truth, that is abundantly clear.

 

[Mark of Zorro]

At this point it should be noted that the Japanese gave the Chinese trillions (yes, you read correctly trillions) of yen in Official Development Assistance throughout the years after WW2. This is VERY important, if it wasn't for this China would be 5-10 years behind the point that it is now.

Did he mean trillions of dollars? I don't know. What I do know is that most of the money Japan has handed to China has been loans.

Foreign aid to China - Wikipedia

And what was the rest for? Well it would not seem to be apology money as its not so labeled (as if the Japanese would label anything in such a way as to admit guilt!). Is it "please be our friend" money? Well let me just ask you when was the last time you bought a friend? Or was this "we want China in a state to do business with us so we can make a ton of cash" money?

Well I am gunning for the latter option. Seems to me that was tax money that the big shots in Japan sent over there...money they could not directly use themselves. So they use it to build up China for their own future profits.

But even if I am wrong, what does it matter? If you royally screwed somebody over in the past and never fully or genuinely admit it or apologize, you cannot just hand them a bunch of money and expect them to forget about it and be your bestest buddy. Its NOT going to happen.

Japan would have gotten more friendship in the long run by not handing them a dime and not even apologizing, but just acknowledging that Japan was dead wrong in the past and educating every Japanese on how dead wrong Japan was toward China and by making good on that remorse in actions, even short of paying money (saving of course back wages for slave labor and sex slaves). For example, Japan could have returned islands it stole from China during the Sino-Japanese war. Japan could also open up museums dedicated at slave labor sites in Japan, especially where there are mass graves, and those museums could condemn Japan's horrible history in no uncertain terms.

But Japan just sends money??? That won't work. They only people who will respond to that are not the sort of people who are capable of friendship.

 

[Davey]

Closed until further notice