Who really loves Japan and who doesnt?

ghettocities · 1 Jun 2006

I was talking to an old friend recently. He (as far as I knew) had the similar obsession/love with Japan but now in an e-mail that he wrote to me he brought up that he had had enough.

Had enough? I thought to myself.

The story goes he had always wanted to go to Japan since he was a kid, just like me and so we right then and there had grounds for friendship when we first met. He worked day and night, went to college, got all his degrees (and whatnot,) and as lady luck would have it all his efforts paid off, he was offered/hired by a large company in Japan which he then flew to Japan to work for. He mentioned, "It's my dream job... everything is perfect." and I'd always smile when I heard stories about how great everything was, how it was everything he had ever dreamed of having.. but then, in this e-mail that I mentioned a moment ago he said he had had enough. He said that he was no longer interested in Japan, being in Japan, being a part of Japan, working for Japan and seeing Japan everyday.

So I wondered.... I love Japan. Do I really?

Will there be a day in which I've grown tired of Japan?
Will my love for Japan turn into hate for Japan?
Is it possible for me to keep a healthy "relationship" with Japan for the rest of my life?

I can't imagine my life without Japan. I really love Japan. Sure I'm sort of obsessed with it, but it's attached to my love for everything Japan and I'm afraid to think of it changing one day and the possibility that I might hate it.

Great minds think alike and so I wanted to ask anyone willing to offer an answer.. The question I want to ask is:

Will you ever get tired of Japan? And move on to something else?

My answer is that I won't. Never in a million years.

Josh

RockLee · 1 Jun 2006

I won't either, sure Japan has it's own problems like every other country does. But not once in the years I'm involved with Japan I have tought "Oh come on, I don't wanna hear a word about it anymore".

leonmarino · 1 Jun 2006

Never say never, that's what I think. "I'll never get tired of.." who knows?

For me personally, I had been fascinated with Japan for a long, long time. I am half-Japanese, and I was raised with the idea that Japan is the greatest country on earth. Some Japanese friends of mine have said that I was more Japanese than them, that I had more ﾂ"ﾋ?､ﾂ坂?伉心ﾂ" (patriotism) and ﾂ"窶佚･ﾋ彗ﾂ債ｰﾂ" (the Japanese spirit) than many of the locals.

Anyways, a trip to Japan last year for the first time in 11 years had my eyes openend.. (I already told this story a few times in other threads, sorry if I'm boring some readers ) Japan is also "just a country", and sure it has some unique, positive things that I really appreciate, but it also has some major issues concerning their view on foreigners and lack of open-mindedness.. My obsession for Japan has crumbled and has made way for a more balanced, critical view on the land of the rising sun.

Mike Cash · 1 Jun 2006

It's easy for you to retain your favorable opinion of Japan. You don't live here.

Mikawa Ossan · 1 Jun 2006

The trick is when, as leonmarino said, Japan becomes "just a country" in your mind. At that point, when Japan is no longer "special" but just "is", how do you feel about it?

DoctorP · 1 Jun 2006

exactly ghettocities...you don't live here full time, so you will probably not grow tired of it. People who only come to visit will most likely not have it wear on them.

RockLee · 1 Jun 2006

Well, I guess you can only speak for yourself right? Not everyone gets annoyed by living a few years in Japan. I guess the stereotype works in both ways.

leonmarino · 1 Jun 2006

Mike Cash said:
It's easy for you to retain your favorable opinion of Japan. You don't live here.

CC1 said:
exactly ghettocities...you don't live here full time, so you will probably not grow tired of it. People who only come to visit will most likely not have it wear on them.

My brother has been living in Japan for the past two years almost. Although we never spoke explicitly about it, I think he had the same admiration for Japan as I did. But after almost two years of hard labour, a lot of stress, Japanese bureaucracy and discrimination in various level of society, he often longs for the free-mindedness of Holland.
Not to say he has grown tired of Japan as a whole; he stills loves the food and culture, and most of the people who are genuinely kind and caring. But I guess experience makes you more critical.

Mikawa Ossan said:
The trick is when, as leonmarino said, Japan becomes "just a country" in your mind. At that point, when Japan is no longer "special" but just "is", how do you feel about it?

I still love Japan, and I think the country has a lot of positive aspect like overall politeness, less criminality (on the surface at least) and a deep sense of cultural heritage. But the thought of Japan as some kind of "promised land" is not there anymore; I doubt if I can reside there permanently and be happy.

crawling · 1 Jun 2006

i love japan, but i have to confess that there was a time i didn't really thought about japan and wasn't so interest in japan anymore, but the love still was there only that i had other thoughts in my mind and stuff..and since a few month this love grows and grows again maybe your friend will change his mind again, i dunno..

DoctorP · 1 Jun 2006

RockLee said:
Well, I guess you can only speak for yourself right? Not everyone gets annoyed by living a few years in Japan. I guess the stereotype works in both ways.

Don't read into that statement! I'm fine here. I was just saying that someone who only visits is not likely to burn out. Many people who come here for the long haul burn out after about 2-3 years (but not everyone!).

Grandpa Frank · 1 Jun 2006

I Confess.

After two years, I was homesick for Maine. After the first year and a half, I was making plans to live in Japan forever. I felt much more at home in Japan then in the US; thought I would never grow tired of it. For some reason, the 2 year mark made me notice the things I missed from back in Maine: my family& friends, guns&hunting, American food, being able to read everything around me(magazines&newspapers), watching TV shows & movies without reading subtitles and understanding everything said, etc. . Nothing major really, but all the little things seem to gang up on me at once and made me want to go back to the states. It could not of been too bad in Japan since I still miss it after 35 years away. I think overall, my life has been easier living here in Maine and I made the right decision to leave Japan when I did.

Uncle Frank

☝

nice gaijin · 1 Jun 2006

What's the point of loving something incapable of returning your feelings? Sounds more like an unhealthy attachment than a relationship of any kind. I'd sooner call these emotions a "long term infatuation" than "love." To use the latter to describe one's feelings towards any inanimate object is to cheapen the word.

Will I ever tire of Japan? I'm not sure what this entails. Will I replace my cautious optimism with melodramatic cynicism? Will I build up resentment for those little things I used to think were cute or quirky? Will I have a big fight in Japan and never see it again? Perhaps I'm taking the "relationship" metaphor a bit too far. All I know is that after spending more time in Japan my opinion will certainly change. How it will change I do not purport to know.

RockLee · 1 Jun 2006

Frank D. White said:
watching TV shows & movies without reading subtitles and understanding everything said, etc. .

That's the most frustrating thing that can happen to somebody. And in some cases the reason they don't like Japan anymore. Like MikeCash and some people said, you'd have to be forcefed Japanese to survive.

ghettocities · 1 Jun 2006

Mike Cash said:
It's easy for you to retain your favorable opinion of Japan. You don't live here.

I've never hated America or being in America (and every day it's the same thing,) so I don't see how living in Japan, working in Japan and seeing Japan every day would make me lose interest in it (Japan.)

That's what I can't figure out. It seems like the people who lose interest in Japan blame it on living in Japan etc.etc. when maybe it's the person's living conditions and not so much Japan and like maybe it's the whole 'see a lemon and get the sweet taste in your mouth' or like 'there are presents at Christmas time' type of mental associations people make with themselves.

All I know is I'll never lose interest in Japan.

Josh

leonmarino · 1 Jun 2006

ghettocities said:
when maybe it's the person's living conditions and not so much Japan and like maybe it's the whole 'see a lemon and get the sweet taste in your mouth' or like 'there are presents at Christmas time' type of mental associations people make with themselves.

I honestly do not understand what you're saying here..

ghettocities said:
All I know is I'll never lose interest in Japan.

Well what can I say? I'm happy for you Josh. There this Dutch saying though: "He who never changes his opinion has rarely learned a thing". But I guess everyone has to find that out on his own.

Mike Cash · 1 Jun 2006

ghettocities said:
I've never hated America or being in America (and every day it's the same thing,) so I don't see how living in Japan, working in Japan and seeing Japan every day would make me lose interest in it (Japan.)

You've misinterpreted my post.

I didn't mean that living here automatically leads to losing interest or becoming embittered. I meant that not living here prevents you from exposure to the things which could lead to that.

Mike Cash · 1 Jun 2006

RockLee said:
Well, I guess you can only speak for yourself right? Not everyone gets annoyed by living a few years in Japan.

Actually, I would say that everyone does get annoyed by living here a few years. They'd have to be blissfully ignorant and live in an amazing coccoon not to.

It's more a question of how much they get annoyed and how well they handle being annoyed.

ArmandV · 1 Jun 2006

As much as I enjoyed my visits to Japan, they are only just that: visits. I am looking forward to going back.

That said, I can see how non-Japanese can get annoyed with the country. There are little niggling things like "no-gaijin" bars, etc. But as Mike said, it is how you handle the annoyances that matters.

I tend to let things roll off like "water off a duck's back."

Elizabeth · 2 Jun 2006

Mike Cash said:
Actually, I would say that everyone does get annoyed by living here a few years. They'd have to be blissfully ignorant and live in an amazing coccoon not to.
It's more a question of how much they get annoyed and how well they handle being annoyed.

I actually tended to handle the negative aspects much worse when I first began visiting and in the initial stages of a home stay than I do now by returning every couple months. Living in a foreign country is no different than any other long-term relationship -- after a few years of being with someone they become more like a member of the family and less lover or boy/girl friend' like. Home is likewise anywhere a foreigner naturally adjusts and acclimates after a period of months or years, it doesn't follow in any way that Japan is any less "special" or "unique" than the US with any more or fewer problems. As everyone has alluded to, the key is simply to try and stay focused on what attracted you to the place to begin with and have the maturity to come to terms with the less attractive underside.

Kinsao · 2 Jun 2006

If you go to live in Japan, after some time you may no longer "love" it (because when you live somewhere, you see the bad things as well as the good things).

But there is no reason to suppose you'll then go to the opposite extreme and hate it... or even find everything about it uninteresting. More likely it will just become more ordinary to you, as you get used to living there. And of course, you might feel a little homesick for some familiar things.

I think you'd have to be pretty cynical, or just a very boring and grumpy person, to get entirely fed up with a country. Every country in the world has some good things and some bad things about it. :joyful:

I think as long as you're prepared for the shine to wear off a bit (being no longer "infatuated"), you will have a realistic and balanced view and feelings. I think (and these are just my opinions) that it's people who go with a too-rosy view, who then get disillusioned and come to "hate" Japan where they used to love it.

But anyway, your friend doesn't hate it - he just doesn't find it so interesting any more, which is natural considering it's his everyday life. It's like getting a new job - it seems interesting at first, but a year later it's the daily grind again.

Mike Cash · 2 Jun 2006

As you suspect, Kinsao, the swing from obsession/fatuation with Japan to embitterment/hatred/disillusionment after having lived here two or three years is a very common phenomenon. But even the people who come with a more level-headed view of the place aren't immune to it.

Tollen · 2 Jun 2006

Kinsao said:
that it's people who go with a too-rosy view, who then get disillusioned and come to "hate" Japan where they used to love it.
But anyway, your friend doesn't hate it - he just doesn't find it so interesting any more, which is natural considering it's his everyday life. It's like getting a new job - it seems interesting at first, but a year later it's the daily grind again.

i agree... if you don't live there and have japan in your face 24/7 then you only get a view through rose-tinted glasses... you see what good points people have enthused to you and what you want to see... i guess its the same with anything you want so much... i mean i REALLY wanna go to japan even though I never have before but I understand that that'll wane and become a feeling less strong... it doesn't mean that I won't stil prefer living there lol nowhere's perfect but i hope to think that I won't still just focus on the positives and think it's amazing but form a realistic opinion... aaaanyways yeah i think the people that end up hating a place like that tht they've moved to are more-likely to be the ones that dont realize all this

xerxes99 · 2 Jun 2006

I've only lived here 7 months, so right now I'm in the "I love Japan and want to stay here forever" stage. I'm aware that very well may change eventually. Obviously there are things that bug me, but I'm not really bothered by the little things anymore.

DoctorP · 2 Jun 2006

ghettocities said:
I've never hated America or being in America (and every day it's the same thing,) so I don't see how living in Japan, working in Japan and seeing Japan every day would make me lose interest in it (Japan.)
Josh

Why would you hate America? You were born there and grew up there and understand how things operate and can communicate fully (I'm assuming). Your comments make absolutely no sense!

Elizabeth · 2 Jun 2006

CC1 said:
Why would you hate America? You were born there and grew up there and understand how things operate and can communicate fully (I'm assuming). Your comments make absolutely no sense!

Sometimes I even get a little bored being in a monocultural society and yearn for the huge variety America has to offer both in terms of the people and physical landscape. It has nothing to do with how well I can communicate, really, although that undeniably helps...doesn't mean I hate the country, either, I just get tired of being around Japanese and only Japanese day in and out...there may even be natives out there somewhere that feel the same way.

Who really loves Japan and who doesnt?

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