What are japanese people intrested in foreigners, in my case.

[Karamuucho]

Just imagine if I was to say to you; you think I am ranting, you don't like it, YOU SHOULD LEAVE THIS FORUM!!!!! Don't come back!
and promt it before they post anything.

Distancing yourself from things you don't like isn't always a bad idea.

Not that I want anyone to leave this forum or anything, or Japan for that matter.

 

[Mrjones]

I did some talking with my professor about this subject.. He says that I am making judgement about people, based on their behaviour(which is what i am doing wrong), and its based on my experience,

(I dont have right to my experience, this used to be famous in nazi idology. Nazis you used to say, you experience or feel wrong.).

He also says that Japanese people also do these same judgements, becouse they lack in experience communicating with foreign people. In my opinoin this is not complitely justified to be true, becouse languge which was used was Japanese. They would know, what they are speaking about.

So basicaly this would mean, that in my own native language, I could do the samethings, and people would blame it on lack in experience ? Rather than I would be doing anything wrong.

 

[pipokun]

So basicaly this would mean, that in my own native language, I could do the samethings, and people would blame it on lack in experience ? Rather than I would be doing anything wrong.

Just simply answer when he/she leaves or how long they are going to study in your country.
But if you find "see you later" too ambiguous, I have no idea.

I don't know your Japanese skill, but it is good to keep asking why.
I did not realise my pet phrase till my friend asked, a fluent speaker of Japanese, why I use it in the situation.

 

[Pachipro]

Mrjones, your professor is right and you shouldn't judge a people without understanding their culture first!

He also says that Japanese people also do these same judgements, becouse they lack in experience communicating with foreign people. In my opinoin this is not complitely justified to be true, becouse languge which was used was Japanese. They would know, what they are speaking about.

After you have been in Japan a while and gain a firm grasp of the language and culture you will come to understand that the Japanese people you refer to asking, "When are you going home", is nothing more than their attempt at starting a conversation with you, nothing more, nothing less even if they are speaking Japanese to you. After all 99% of the foreigners do end up going home after their exchange program is up. They just want to get an idea how long you will be in Japan.

To "read" anything else into it like, "They must want me to leave" is just downright silly and unwarranted. After you slowly begin to understand Japanese and the culture you will discover that the Japanese are by nature shy, especially boys your age and the questions you find so offensive is just their way of starting a conversation and getting to know you better.

Get to know some of them and befriend them and you will have friends for life. I'm sure they'd like to get to know you better, but do not have the social skills on going about it and feel intimidated by you as they do many a foreigner. They do not have the social skills those in the west have.

Lighten up a bit and I'm sure your stay will be that more enjoyable.

So basicaly this would mean, that in my own native language, I could do the samethings, and people would blame it on lack in experience ? Rather than I would be doing anything wrong.

You cannot compare the two cultures as they are completely different, like night and day. It is unfair to compare them as, in your culture, you may never dream of asking them similar questions, whereas in Japanese culture it is perfectably acceptable.

You need to understand this if you are to gain anything from your exchange program. To say that they have no manners at all and must want you to go home shows that you have learned nothing of the Japanese way of thinking and culture from your stay and, if you continue along this line of thinking, you will learn nothing and will end up bad mouthing the Japanese on forums like this in the future. That will be very sad indeed.

 

[Mrjones]

Mrjones, your professor is right and you shouldn't judge a people without understanding their culture first!
To "read" anything else into it like, "They must want me to leave" is just downright silly and unwarranted.
Get to know some of them and befriend them and you will have friends for life. I'm sure they'd like to get to know you better, but do not have the social skills on going about it and feel intimidated by you as they do many a foreigner. They do not have the social skills those in the west have.
Lighten up a bit and I'm sure your stay will be that more enjoyable.
You cannot compare the two cultures as they are completely different, like night and day.
/QUOTE]

1 paragraph, no, all the people will expience their first experiences first... no they dont skip to their more advanced thinking before going trough basics. Making mistakes is alright, there is no shame in that.

2 paragraph, when people ask you when you are going back as the first thing and after they recieve that information, stop communicating, is not to be accepted as friendly.... and I can live that. I dont think this world is going to be a very friendly place in the first place, even in my own country there are lot of things I dont accept.

3. so if they dont have social skills, how should I have ? I come from homogenic country too...despite I am pretty friendly and nice outside this forum (which is only place I rant out what I want, and think)
4. My country people tend to be more negative... cant help it(melancoholy)

5. I can compare two cultures to each others... I can compere cocolate and beer consumption to each others with right review tools.

 

[Elizabeth]

The Japanese people I meet ask first what my situation in the country is, when I arrived, etc. as conversation starter small talk. Never have I heard "when are you leaving" out of the blue and I think you even admitted it was an isolated case, no ?

 

[Nall-ohki]

MRjones - I've said it before, and I'll state it again: stop judging everything.

Everyone here has tried quite a few times to explain this to you:

You have been in Japan less than a year. Culturally, you are a child.

No - scratch that - you are a newborn baby in a world that's completely foreign to you. You can barely sit your head up properly, and even when you do, people don't interpret it as anything more than "cute."

You have a long way to go before you even completely understand WHAT is going on. It will take much longer before you are able to make value judgements.

So.... STOP MAKING VALUE JUDGEMENTS. Let it go - just try to figure out what's going on around you, don't make judgments on whether it's good or bad or rude or a comeon. This kind of judgement will always be incorrect (or if it is correct, for the wrong reason).

If you do this, your problem goes away. You don't have to worry about people being rude to you - because you aren't entirely sure they are yet (which is supported by a lot of evidence we've already provided).

It also doesn't hurt your pride, of which you seem to have an abundance of.

 

[KirinMan]

MRjones - I've said it before, and I'll state it again: stop judging everything.
Everyone here has tried quite a few times to explain this to you:
You have been in Japan less than a year. Culturally, you are a child.
No - scratch that - you are a newborn baby in a world that's completely foreign to you. You can barely sit your head up properly, and even when you do, people don't interpret it as anything more than "cute."
You have a long way to go before you even completely understand WHAT is going on. It will take much longer before you are able to make value judgements.
So.... STOP MAKING VALUE JUDGEMENTS. Let it go - just try to figure out what's going on around you, don't make judgments on whether it's good or bad or rude or a comeon. This kind of judgement will always be incorrect (or if it is correct, for the wrong reason).
If you do this, your problem goes away. You don't have to worry about people being rude to you - because you aren't entirely sure they are yet (which is supported by a lot of evidence we've already provided).
It also doesn't hurt your pride, of which you seem to have an abundance of.

As an American I am going to speak in generalities here, even though I usually hate to do so, yet I have found that a majority of the American's that I have run across here in Japan act very similarly to the one making the judgements here.

I agree with the quote above. Too many American's that I have run across here are unaware of the differences in the cultures between the two countries. Most of that comes from a lack of education about the country or in some cases down right ignorance and arrogance. They have a rather bad tendency to try or attempt to compare everything that they experience here with something comparable to home. That doesnt often work, yet it is human nature to fall back on personal experience and when that fails fall back on cultural knowledge from one's own background.

However it is the rare American that I have seen here that can take these little seemingly rude comments that many Japanese subconsciously make and just let them go.

Generally speaking it appears to me that the majority need to have an explaination for every little detail about why something happens or why someone said what they did. Instead of just observing the situation that the comments were made and learning about how the people in this culture adjust to being around someone from a different country.

Much can be learned from observation and keeping one's mouth shut here. Also it helps to know that many of the comments here that people make are taken and blown way out of proportion to the context that they were spoken in the first place. In my experiences here I have found many American's to be overly sensitive to what Japanese people say. That is a cultural aspect of America that I really don't like very much. American's have a need to be precise and have everything they say analyzed to death, to the detriment of all parties involved.

Oh it is also a language thing too. Learning the culture behind the language can assist in understanding as well.

Lastly I see that these comments I made here dont just apply to American's either, which in a way is rather surprising because on the otherhand the majority of Europeans that I have met here during my stay in Japan have been much more culturally adept at understanding the differences between their countries.

 

[Mrjones]

MRjones - I've said it before, and I'll state it again: stop judging everything.

Everyone here has tried quite a few times to explain this to you:

You have been in Japan less than a year. Culturally, you are a child.

No - scratch that - you are a newborn baby in a world that's completely foreign to you. You can barely sit your head up properly, and even when you do, people don't interpret it as anything more than "cute."

You have a long way to go before you even completely understand WHAT is going on. It will take much longer before you are able to make value judgements.

So.... STOP MAKING VALUE JUDGEMENTS. Let it go - just try to figure out what's going on around you, don't make judgments on whether it's good or bad or rude or a comeon. This kind of judgement will always be incorrect (or if it is correct, for the wrong reason).

If you do this, your problem goes away. You don't have to worry about people being rude to you - because you aren't entirely sure they are yet (which is supported by a lot of evidence we've already provided).

It also doesn't hurt your pride, of which you seem to have an abundance of.

Yeah, i agree that this is the only case I have heard about this problem in Japan, though It has been getting better... I love this thread though, its been funny to watch.

And would you please making judgements too then ?
Why is it, that some people have to be so hard headed, to understand the value of experience be it good or bad? Certainly I agree all is not bad, most things are great, but it certainly wont stop me to defined what I see as right and what I see as not so good.

 

[taehyun]

Even though I also disagree with some of Mrjones' statemets, I would like to ephasize the fact, that he is very hurt personaly. There are more sencitive people, not every one has a "heart of steel". Judging him now, like that,is just cruel.
Besides, I live near the place he states he lives in Japan, and have encountered some harsh ignorance and rude behaviour.

 

[Nall-ohki]

And would you please making judgements too then ?
Why is it, that some people have to be so hard headed, to understand the value of experience be it good or bad? Certainly I agree all is not bad, most things are great, but it certainly wont stop me to defined what I see as right and what I see as not so good.

I am speaking to you from my own experience - one that is greater than your own. I am not trying to be mean to you, but you have been very resistant to letting go.

I myself had similar problems at first when I got to Japan - things didn't quite line up, and things were taken personally that, in retrospect, really shouldn't have been.

Your energies in "defending what is good", etc. are noble, but very ill-advised. It's rather like a child saying he's going to rid his neighborhood of crime by picking up litter; you're going to accomplish something, but it's not necessarily the thing you think you're accomplishing.

Just sit back, enjoy the culture, and don't worry too much about what's being said or meant.

You can't learn anything if you already know everything.

 

[Mrjones]

I am speaking to you from my own experience - one that is greater than your own.

Great..and why is it excately greater than mine ?

 

[KirinMan]

Great..and why is it excately greater than mine ?

I read that "greater" as to mean "more of them" rather than more "important or meaningful".

 

[Nall-ohki]

I read that "greater" as to mean "more of them" rather than more "important or meaningful".

This is indeed what I meant. I know that you have been in Japan less than a year, and I am also very aware of my own first year in Japan.

 

[gaijinalways]

Much can be learned from observation and keeping one's mouth shut here. Also it helps to know that many of the comments here that people make are taken and blown way out of proportion to the context that they were spoken in the first place. In my experiences here I have found many American's to be overly sensitive to what Japanese people say. That is a cultural aspect of America that I really don't like very much. American's have a need to be precise and have everything they say analyzed to death, to the detriment of all parties involved. Oh it is also a language thing too. Learning the culture behind the language can assist in understanding as well.

Lastly I see that these comments I made here dont just apply to American's either, which in a way is rather surprising because on the otherhand the majority of Europeans that I have met here during my stay in Japan have been much more culturally adept at understanding the differences between their countries.

No generalizations here! Uh, it's not a matter of overanalyzing, but also realizing some things here are not your fault. Sometimes when people are suspicious, it is not just paranoia!

Yes, some of the Europeans I met were 'so adjusted' they ran to leave as soon as they could!

Yes, some things can be culture shock, but there is a point when you realize that some societies are not so excepting of outside influence except when they control what they absorb. Sound familar?

 

[Elizabeth]

In my experiences here I have found many American's to be overly sensitive to what Japanese people say. That is a cultural aspect of America that I really don't like very much. American's have a need to be precise and have everything they say analyzed to death, to the detriment of all parties involved.
Oh it is also a language thing too. Learning the culture behind the language can assist in understanding as well.

The extension of this argument, that Japanese are somehow less sensitive to perceptions of rudeness in their own language than Americans, is a load of crock in my opinion. They don't dissect the statement as analytically perhaps, but I could just as well begin addressing friends using very formal, cold, or blunt language and report back on how well that goes over.

 

[Pachipro]

The extension of this argument, that Japanese are somehow less sensitive to perceptions of rudeness in their own language than Americans, is a load of crock in my opinion. They don't dissect the statement as analytically perhaps, but I could just as well begin addressing friends using very formal, cold, or blunt language and report back on how well that goes over.

Quite true in my opinion as I believe Japanese to be just as sensitive. To give you an example of your last sentence: While I was about 2 years into seriously learning the language and living there at the same time, I was talking to a female friend of a friend on the phone one night. We knew each other fairly well through my friend and it was first time we had talked on the phone.

I was ending my sentences with the dictionary form of verbs such as "masu" and utilizing "desu" and "Ah soo desu ka" etc. Out of the blue she suddenly becomes cold and says, "Are you angry at me? Did I do something wrong? Are we not friends?" and the phone call abruptly ends.

I was perplexed. I thought I was being polite by using the verb forms I was using as we were not that close. In her mind she thought I was being cold and aloof and maybe did not like her because I was not using informal talk one would use with a friend. Therefore a misunderstanding occured.

It was only after about a week later when my friend explained why she was a little put off by me that I understood. It is a tricky situation and misunderstandings do arise from time to time when living in Japan and learning the language.

 

[Beer Baron]

I think the problem here is simply you are reading too much into things. trying to hard to understand peoples intent and their feelings towards you. sometimes you will never be able to uncover their motives. but rather than assume a negative, assume it's positive instead. it's just an innocent question.
Often when I meet japanese people and we are talking (either in english, or in my half-assed japanese) they ask firstly. "when did you arrive?" "what are you doing in japan?" "how long are you staying? (could also be: "when are you leaving"). when people ask me: when are you leaving? or usually it's: "when are you going home (kairemasu ka?)" I dont take offence. Often it's because they want to make a plan to meet later in the week, or next week etc and just want to make sure I'll still be around.
I honestly don't think any japanese person who just met you would be intentionally rude. because the only reason for them to be rude would be if they didn't like you or had a bad feeling about you. and if they didn't like you, they wouldn't be talking to you in the first place. they would just ignore you all together. so maybe just interpret their meaning a little differently? I'm not saying you are 100% wrong, but just try and look at things in a positive light and you will be much happier over all.

PS. I appologise for my poor romaji spelling. I don't use it very much, and my work pc can't type in kana (only display it, copy it etc).

 

[caliope]

Mr. Jones is from Finland, right? Maybe this is off the topic. I spent a year in Oulu, Finland. Finnish people asked me the same questions, Why did you come to Finland, and what are you doing here? It happened so much, I began to think, like, god do I smell or something? Things like this can happen in any country, so take it easy Mr. Jones.

 

[maushan3]

Lets see how good this rule of fives works then, when i get back home..lets say I ask from all the japanese people I see in Finland when are they going back home..and then just leave the conversation.

Man, you should just leave Japan if you're getting insulted quite easily.

They are just curious about foreign people and cultures, the same as if I encounter a Japanese person in the all-Mexican city of Monterrey. I would be glad to start a conversation with people that are interested to know more about myself.
But that's just me.

Mauricio

 

[Mrjones]

Mr. Jones is from Finland, right? Maybe this is off the topic. I spent a year in Oulu, Finland. Finnish people asked me the same questions, Why did you come to Finland, and what are you doing here? It happened so much, I began to think, like, god do I smell or something? Things like this can happen in any country, so take it easy Mr. Jones.

good point, I am not from Oulu but I am supresed to hear that thing. Quite true indeed, I hear.

 

[Mrjones]

Man, you should just leave Japan if you're getting insulted quite easily.
They are just curious about foreign people and cultures, the same as if I encounter a Japanese person in the all-Mexican city of Monterrey. I would be glad to start a conversation with people that are interested to know more about myself.
But that's just me.
Mauricio

No, people who ask as first thing when do you leave, are not intrested in your culture.

 

[Nall-ohki]

No, people who ask as first thing when do you leave, are not intrested in your culture.

Then go home.

Seriously.

You refuse to listen to everyone who's telling you the obvious thing: They're not being rude.

I've written pages of stuff to you on this, as have others in this this forum, and yet your pride or your stubbornness continue to get the best of you.

You cannot accept the truth in front of you, and you are INTENT on finding fault in others.

Why do you even care if they're interested in your culture? What about Japan is about YOU? It's not about you. It's about Japan.

You can't seem to get along with the locals, you constantly ***** that people are rude to you; so do something about it.

Change your way of thinking, or leave the situation entirely.

Just for reference, here was my original response to you quite a while ago:

6 months in Japan as exchange student

 

[gaijinalways]

Ah, he's not doing that bad.

Beer baron posted

honestly don't think any japanese person who just met you would be intentionally rude. because the only reason for them to be rude would be if they didn't like you or had a bad feeling about you. and if they didn't like you, they wouldn't be talking to you in the first place. they would just ignore you all together. so maybe just interpret their meaning a little differently? I'm not saying you are 100% wrong, but just try and look at things in a positive light and you will be much happier over all.

Unfortunately, that is not always the case. I have had people critcize me when they thought I couldn't understand what they were saying. I won't say it's common, but it happens often enough that I think mrjones is not that paranoid. Quite interesting when they learn that the other Japanese speaker might not go along with it.

 

[Nall-ohki]

Ah, he's not doing that bad.
Beer baron posted
Unfortunately, that is not always the case. I have had people critcize me when they thought I couldn't understand what they were saying. I won't say it's common, but it happens often enough that I think mrjones is not that paranoid. Quite interesting when they learn that the other Japanese speaker might not go along with it.

Oh, I admit this is true - it's happened to me, as well - there are jerks everywhere.

Believe me, I understand paranoia, but he seems to be stuck, and it's not acceptable to continue doing this 8-10 months after he moves to Japan. The paranoia should have passed by now.

The problem is that MrJones is doing harm to himself and to others he meets by his actions, which I think is unacceptable. The people he is describing are NOT the ones who are talking about him as if he didn't understand.