Weirdos and nice guys/girls: what makes them?

[lexico]

I'm going to write in loose terms here because I don't know the truth myself.
What do you think makes a person happy and engaging; what makes one a vengeful, mischievous, malicious, nasty, obnoxious person?
Do you think more weird people as the schooling gets longer and the academic degrees get higher?

Some random, possible reasonings:

1. "Some very well educated people can have strange personalities because smart people tend to be picky and selfish."

2. "Well educated means more smarts. Smarter people have an easier time getting what they want, hence have nice personalities."

3. "Personality has nothing to do with education. It's more nature and nurture in the family that makes the individual's personality."

4. "The sadistic school system will distort an otherwise normal person into a two-faced, double-talking Dr Jeckyl and Mr Hyde."

5. "Material success, like having a well-paid job, inheriting a fortune, or marrying into a wealthy family, will guarantee financial stability. A financially stable person generally has a good personality."

6. "Having good friends and family to keep the social interaction genuine, interesting, and supportive of the person is the key element of a happy, well-rounded person."

7. "A good marriage will make a person happy and positive, whereas a messed-up marriage with a cheating, selfish, destructive partner will bring out the worst in a person."

8. "None of these are true. It is totally up to the person's ideas and decided to become either this kind of person or that."

Credits: Maciamo's Do you Care about Social Class and Den4's Popular Japanese Myths' post #21 inspired me to raise this question, which was also a long-term interest.

 

[Doc]

What are you talking about? I AM WEIRD.

Doc

 

[Mal]

What do you think makes a person happy and engaging; what makes one a vengeful, mischievous, malicious, nasty, abnoxious person ?

My gut reaction is that so long as any individual is getting mostly, or atleast enough of what they want, they should be overall sociable. That is to say, socialized into society. Once someone is in the position where they are getting far less than they want out of life, they become anti-social. Most normal people probably swing between these two poles during their lifetimes atleast once.

I guess the question I then have is what keeps some people from being able to swing back from anti-social behavior into social behavior?

Do you think there are more wierd people as the schooling gets longer and the academic degrees gets higher ?

I think you meet far more people with less ability at social interaction. Now this doesn't mean they exhibit anti-social behavior, just that they don't know how interact well with people on a personal communications level. I work in a very high tech field and for the most part many of the people I interact with have such poor personal skills that they border on being autistic.

My conclusion however isn't that higher education makes these people this way, but that people who are this way often seek out higher education as a way of gaining a respected place in society without having to learn how to interact well with human beings.

 

[TheKansaiKid]

I find myself in an unusual position because

I agree with Mal and would say that these people often choose fields of study that let them isolate themselves a bit ie Math or Chemistry as opposed to Law or Medicine.

This is a bit off the subject, but here in the states when I am around a Medical doctor they seem to have a "doctor vibe" they exude a gentle kindness, and confidence. Many times I have met someone and thought "he seems like a doctor" only to find out later he was. However the Doctors I met in Japan didn't have this "aura" about them they seemed like mechanics whose specialty was the mechanics of the human body. Anyone else ever get that feeling or is it just me.

 

[Mal]

This is a bit off the subject, but here in the states when I am around a Medical doctor they seem to have a "doctor vibe" they exude a gentle kindness, and confidence. Many times I have met someone and thought "he seems like a doctor" only to find out later he was. However the Doctors I met in Japan didn't have this "aura" about them they seemed like mechanics whose specialty was the mechanics of the human body. Anyone else ever get that feeling or is it just me.

Meh, its just standard Japanese authority-figure muckity muck. Doctors hold the same type of authority here in the US, but the difference is we don't have a culture that encourages them to display it openly. I mean just think about it, even if we had a direct analogous term for it, we wouldn't call a doctor here in the states sensei. Best they could hope for is probably "Doctor", with more likely to get "Doc" or "Bob". Infact pretty much most doctors here in the states actually prefer to be on first name basis with their patients, they think that it helps build good relationship between them (I tend to agree).

My ex is a Doc, I know that the primary thing that they worry about is that people wont trust them enough to say whats really wrong with them, and then they have to guess.

Different cultures, different philosophys on medicine I suppose.

Also, TKK - You can be practically autistic and still be a lawyer. The number of lawyers who practice law and actually argue cases is far smaller than those that don't ever go before the bench. However, with a good legal team Trial Law is more of an entertainers gig than anything else ><

PS: You will agree with me more and more as I wield the mighty hammer :smash: of Logic!!!!

Ok, time to put on the flame retardant!

 

[TheKansaiKid]

is that what that hammer was.... logic dang and all this time I just thought it was the hammer of convoluted conviction ;-)

 

[Mal]

is that what that hammer was.... logic dang and all this time I just thought it was the hammer of convoluted conviction ;-)

Hey, if you don't believe in your reasoning - who will?

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Hummmm????

No females are taking the bait?

Frank

 

[lexico]

I confess to my sin of sexual bias

No females are taking the bait?

Frank

Good point, Uncle Frank. I suspect feminine pride dictates that I am the culprit, the mildly anti-women-bashing posts that I have been planting in the forum niches. And like they say, you can never win an argument with a woman.

#### attention please, admin or moderator#####
Please correct the misleading title of the lead post;

*heart* Weirdos & Nice Guys/Girls: What makes them?

by replacing it with

*heart* Nice Girls/Guys & Weirdos: What makes them?

or even better

*heart* Why are girls nice and guys naughty?

or even better

*heart* Why are girls nice, neat, nurturing, and sweet?

 

[StarCrap]

So uh, yea I'm still trying to sink all this in.

 

[lexico]

Okay, now I realize I talked too much. So here is the core question.

What makes people nice people?
What makes grouches?

Any opinion or personal confession is welcome. To start, I can be a real mean grouch, but that's only when someone stepped on my toes. I think I'm okay in the grouch department because I'm a genuinely happy guy. I can be that way because I know what I want, and I know how to get it. I can even be a happy slave worker if I can see, I am making a meaningful contribution to the organization. What I enjoy most is being perceptive and being able to use my senses to something good.

So what makes you a grouch? What makes you nice?

 

[misa.j]

I think I am a happy person in general, but if I am around someone who has negative vibes all the time, that makes me a little depressed.

All of your reasonings on your first post lexico, seems true in some way, but then again, the last one seems like a good conclusion, too.

It is hard to determine what makes people(especially women ;-)) a grouch or a happy; can be absolutely anything such as genes or temperament.

 

[Sensuikan San]

So what makes you a grouch ? What makes you nice ?

I think it may be .... the attitude to life....of your parents .... or perhaps, traumatic problems during your upbringing.

Regards,

ジョン

 

[Grandpa Frank]

Well.......

I stay pretty happy-go-lucky till I see someone being mean or picking on someone. I have an uncontrolable temper and have to save the poor victim.
Most of the time I end up shooting myself in the foot and feeling dumb for butting in. I just can't stand to see someone being physically or mentally hurt
for something they don't deserve. Guess it goes back to my childhood when I was a scrawny runt and got picked on. Anyway, if you say something mean on the Forum to someone, forgive me ahead of time for jumping on you; I'm sorry ahead of time for it.

Frank

 

[Mycernius]

I suppose you could start with the nurture or nature debate. Is it in certain peoples genes to be nice and others nasty? It is seen in social animals, such as chimps and lions, that certain group members seem to either get along or are just not nice. This would indicate a natural base for the argument. Most alpha male and females of social groups have the ability to make friends. Others that challenge the top dog position also seem to have the same ability, so once they are on top, they have the backing of those who helped them get there. Others are distant or loners and do not mix well within the group. When they make a bid to go up the social ladder, they normally get smacked down. It does seem that a certain level of charisma is needed.

It is a bit more difficult in humans to argue the pure nature side of it because we can analyse things better than any other animal on the planet. Unlike the animal world, humans are subjected to a lot more pressure growing up. We are not only driven by our primitive impulses but also by our reasoning and abstract thoughts. Our morals are shaped by the culture in which we live. So what is considered normal in one society is considered unnatural in another. When bought up in this environment, you cannot say that our perceptions of people are purely based on nature. It has been found that children bought up in an abusive and anti-social environment will turn out to be abusive and anti-social themselves. This can start at a very early stage.

You could say that all of Lexicos points, bar number 8, affect the person. Being well educated doesn't necessarily mean that you have a superior attitude to those around you. Charities and various organisations to improve the world have been founded by scholars and academics but have also been founded by ordinary people. The worlds infamous people have not all been abused as children, more a product of the world around them. Would Hitler have been what he was if WWI never happened? Would Stalin have been different if he had stayed in the priesthood? Human development is complex, and you cannot point at one thing that makes us what we are.

So to conclude: I think that we are affected by our genes in some respects. Hence the 'natural feel' we get for some people and the many variables of life itself.

I don't know if this makes any sense to anyone, but once I get an idea in my head, it is hard to stop typing. Must stop

 

[den4]

We now know why Frank-sama is so serene.... check the humor section, and you will see in his zen garden.....
Everybody is weird...just some people are more extroverted about their tics and mannerisms.....
Everybody can be nice, but sometimes it's just too much effort to stay that way...
Attributes are in the eye of the beholder...as well as personal likes and dislike...
and as long as you remember that I know nothing, I won't have to hit you with the Baka-stick until you agree

 

[Mycernius]

We now know why Frank-sama is so serene....go check the humor section and you will see in his zen garden.....
Everybody is weird...just some people are more extroverted about their tics and mannerisms.....
Everybody can be nice, but sometimes it's just too much effort to stay that way....
attributes be in the eye of the beholder...as well as personal likes and dislikes....
and as long as you remember that I know nothing, I won't have to hit you with the baka-stick until you agree

But you do know something and that is the answer is 42

 

[den4]

But you do know something and that is the answer is 42

I didn't know it until you reminded me, but I'm sure I'll promptly forget it after I finish writing this. Nice try....but no cookie, unless you count the one on your computer to join this forum

 

[Void]

No females are taking the bait?
Frank

Good point Uncle Frank. I suspect feminine pride dictates that I am the culprit, the mildly anti-women-bashing posts that I have been planting in the forum niches.

And now tell that you are not the intellectual victims of social stereotypes.

I am not very sociable. Earlier it was due to excessive shyness, but now when I learned to smile to proper people in proper time and mumble thoughtful "uhum..." or "well, not really...', I understood that I don`t really care about other`s people opinion toward my person as long as it does not distort my world.
I have friends that find me nice, but I can be harsh. I`m rude to people who brag around but hadn`t ever shown their achievements. I grouch at idlers who want to get everything without efforts
And sometimes I find out that my judgement was too hasty, and I am no better, that makes to revalue my level of tolerance toward others.

And I still can`t step over my apathy toward people I hardly know if I was not somehow stung by them.

 

[den4]

To each their own, Void-san....to each their own...and sometimes not even that.....
I find it hard to maintain not knowing anything, but it is an acquired skillset...Lexico-sama is always trying to get me to know something, I think, but I don't know if that is true or not.....

 

[Void]

well, den4-san
I am stupid, i can`t understand, but i can see, feel and act... ouch!...

 

[lexico]

to each their own, Void-san....to each their own...and sometimes not even that.....
I find it hard to maintain not knowing anything, but it is an acquired skill set....Lexico-sama is always trying to get me to know something, I think, but I don't know if that is true or not.....

What you say is an interesting topic. To be aware of knowledge can be difficult if there is no movement. To be aware of it, one needs to be on the border line of not knowing and knowing, and moving from one to the other, or swinging back and forth. As in the "How do you know you are in love" question.

 

[den4]

I like your avatar, lexico....

 

[Void]

my logic fails %)

given:
Den4-san claims that he knows nothing.
Isn`t it the same as "he does not know anything"?
in interrogative sentence anything stands for everything (or am i wrong?)

But to say so one at least should know what 'everything' and 'nothing' are.

???
then why Den4 states that he knows nothing?
:?

 

[Tuffy]

I stay pretty happy-go-lucky till I see someone being mean or picking on someone. I have an uncontrollable temper and have to save the poor victim.
Most of the time I end up shooting myself in the foot and feeling dumb for butting in. I just can't stand to see someone being physically or mentally hurt
for something they don't deserve. Guess it goes back to my childhood when I was a scrawny runt and got picked on. Anyway, if you say something mean on the Forum to someone, forgive me ahead of time for jumping on you; I'm sorry ahead of time for it.

Frank

Oh, shaddap, Frank. Now get back in your corner unless you want me to bully you around some more.


(I kid, I kid!! Howz my favourite Uncle doing anyway??)