I regret I fell in love with Japanese girl :(

[Elizabeth]

The problem is that I spend so much time abroad, and I always had very demanding realtioship with women, I feel like I'm not happy with my wife because she is too good for me, she loves me a lot and she would sacrifice anything to be with me all her life.
It is ironic, because she gave me everything what I expected from Junko...
Because after I realtionship with Junko, I been with another asian girl Thai/American called Chanieng for 2 years, it was more fulfilled but we didn't make a good couple.
Now I feel like I need challange to be happy. And my wife is same nationality then me, and she is just to good and perfect. I feel like I didn't have to fight for her, she gave me everything; love and attention right away.
Although now I understand that Junko was not for me and we were not ment to be togher, I still see her face when I think about great love of my life...

You obviously feel a great deal of conflict and inadequacy in what you honestly want out of a relationship and how to go after it, which is frankly impossible to deal well with at a distance. Continually dwelling on your negative feelings about these women and their perceived failures is going to cause tremendous amounts of stress and strife, though, even in an otherwise satisfying relationship. As nuri said, the first step in tolorating any of our advice is resolving in yourself that this deeply held belief of Junko as the love of your life is an illusory fantasy only serving to highlight the emptiness of all your other relationships.

The most lasting unions usually arise from a natural attraction and a mutual compatibility between two people who find each other interesting and want to get to know each other better without any need to manipulate the situation as a romantic fantasy or for the excitement of 'being in love' to validate themselves in a particular culture. It makes me wonder, then, have any of your previous 'girlfriends' been foremost and primarily a really, really close friend ? Someone you could confide in completely openly and easily with without any expecation of romantic favors, commitment, challenge, excitement, attention or any other false demand), where the sexual and physical love grew out of a deep and solid relationship of equals ? Although I know there are so many subtle strands that make up the fabric a relationship it may not be possible to analyze them all at once without breaking yourself down in the process...

 

[DoctorP]

allow me to say that 'he' obviously has a few mental conflicts...and could benefit from some professional help and not the help he seeks from a forum. Sounds as though he has a wonderful life, but feels compelled to continually harp on this subject of a lost/failed love affair with Junko.

 

[Elizabeth]

allow me to say that 'he' obviously has a few mental conflicts...and could benefit from some professional help and not the help he seeks from a forum. Sounds as though he has a wonderful life, but feels compelled to continually harp on this subject of a lost/failed love affair with Junko.

Definately, as everyone has agreed. It's going to involve plenty of work and sacrifice to turn the corner on this, but that's what counselors and psychologists are there for -- they get to deal with these issues as their life work.

 

[Mamoru-kun]

Wally, with all due respect, and reading the -huge- among of posts you posted on Junko...is really an Internet forum what you need? Wouldn't be a psy more appropriated in your situation (no offence intended)?

ADD: aaargh, sorry, posted on page 3...haven't seen the existance of a page 4, with the same advices as mine :-|

 

[Wally S.]

Those 2 asian girls have changed me forever...

Definately, as everyone has agreed. It's going to involve plenty of work and sacrifice to turn the corner on this, but that's what counselors and psychologists are there for -- they get to deal with these issues as their life work.

I have considered seeing a marriage consulant, or the psychologist who deals with the realtionship issues, but as someone has put it, I don't quite feel fullfiled in my current relationship/marriage.

When I look at my wife, I see the person who loves me, the person who is all excited to come home from work just to see me....I feel guilty because I don't feel the same way about her. Although I did love her, but I quess it was because I was running away from dead-end, ufullfiling realtionships

I believe because of the difficult relationship I had in the past, now I need more challenging and "fleeing" or should I say "casual" type of relationship with a women. It is ironic that now, it is me who feels "drowning in love and affection" from my wife...Just the way before I was showering Junko with all my my emotions and love.

Well, to sum it up; I don't believe its about Junko anymore, I feel like Junko I'm not commital type, but while she focuses on her carrier and education, I focus on my feelings and emotional live.

I thing because of my past experienes, difficult realtionship/ or should I say "fling" with Junko, and one with another asian girl Chanieng..that was more fullfiling but ended because she wanted me to to give her 100% while she was giving me 10% although we lived together for 2 years and had sex..but there was no love once 1 year passed.

I think those two asiang girls have taught me to be realistic and non-commital, and now I'm just like them cold and independent type, although I still have my romantic side.

 

[Wally S.]

I became non-commital like Junko was before...

You know Wally, when i go to bed at night, the first thing which pops into my head is the memory of my girlfriend sleeping with me, her warmth warming up the bed, her head on my shoulder and her arm across my chest.
Never once when i go to bed and all my guards are down and my thoughts random, have i ever once thought of any of my previous girlfriends....i thought i lvoed them for sure, and before i met my girlfriend sometimes i wondered how they were doing, but i've never thought of trying to contact them and since being with my girlfriend, i have never gave them a second thought.
What im getting at is....why do you think so much about junko? why does she invade your dreams and thoughts like this? .

Well, when I go to sleep and my wife is lying next to me, I think about another women, I think about Junko. Although many would agree that my wife is as beautifull and lovely as Junko, if not more....

I feel like I'm with person who loves me, and the person I always loved is not with me....It breakes my heart, even though I knew that Junko was non-commital although I'm sure she did liked me a lot. I feel like I've wasted my oportunity with Junko because I was impatient...and the "ishin deshin" created many unnecessary misunderstandings and conflicts between us.

Well, I'm almost certain that I became non-commital in realtionship as once Junko and Chanieng were (my other asian g/f) and now I'll propably try to get out end my marriage and just have "lover" in the Japanese sense of that word.

 

[nice gaijin]

Now I am convinced that you need to speak to a professional counselor. We might be able to shed some light on the cultural differences you were blind to, but no one here is your marriage counselor. This is beyond airing out your frustrations over a past relationship, and beyond anything we can help you with.

 

[Elizabeth]

Well, I'm almost certain that I became non-commital in realtionship as once Junko and Chanieng were (my other asian g/f) and now I'll propably try to get out end my marriage and just have "lover" in the Japanese sense of that word.

If there's someone around a military base sensitive to these cultural differences and who understands the situation of service men in Japan try to get help from them first so you're not trying to explain everything to them yourself. If not though, then just find someone, anyone, to hash it out with face to face before doing anything rash. What could be better after all than an hour or more a week to have to talk about nothing than yourself ??!!

 

[MajideSaiaku]

I'm glad we've managed to help Wally as limited as it is, hopefully he can now find the way forward to more helpful help.

If it helps wally, most of us replying have had experiences with foreign girls/guys who didnt last, so we have some idea of how you feel.

 

[Wally S.]

Reply to Nurizeko

I'm glad we've managed to help Wally as limited as it is, hopefully he can now find the way forward to more helpful help.
If it helps wally, most of us replying have had experiences with foreign girls/guys who didnt last, so we have some idea of how you feel.

Hi Nurizeko,
Thank you for your understanding. I do feel beter as a result of our conversation/debate on the subject so far!

I think I've learned a lesson, and wouldn't make same mistake that I did with Junko, still my wife is tottaly different cup of butter, compared to my Japanese ex- girlfriend...

I'm working hard to keep my current relationship with my wife, but I know for sure that if for some reason we seperate, I would propably get another asian or Japanese girlfriend...The mixed experiences I had with Junko tought me a valuable lesson, and I'm propably give it another try with some other Japanese lady this time applying "ishin denshin". You never know.

 

[Elizabeth]

I'm working hard to keep my current relationship with my wife, but I know for sure that if for some reason we seperate, I would propably get another asian or Japanese girlfriend...The mixed experiences I had with Junko tought me a valuable lesson, and I'm propably give it another try with some other Japanese lady this time applying "ishin denshin". You never know.

As I'm sure you're aware from your time in Japan unconsciously accomodating themselves to the environment and wanting to appear sensitive to other people's needs is such a deeply held way of thinking most Japanese natives automatically recognize silence as the heart of a 'pure' and 'uplifting' interpersonal communion. What has to be spoken and verbalized is somehow distrusted as changable, or not 'real' and 'lasting' (ie harmonious).

So the whole premise behind Ishin denshin is to put the other person in a relationship first without concentrating on your own needs no matter what, whatever problems are lurking under the surface can be ignored in a culture afraid of embarrassing anyone by expressing itself too honestly or directly or unambiguously. Sometimes it works smoothly and other times can build into massive alienation and unhappiness in the home and workplace and with friends. After all, Japanese have individual needs they need to express just like anywhere else.

And I'm not implying you've been blunt and discourteous by coming here to focus this much attention on your emotions and romantic life either, Wally....it's just that it's not traditionally practiced that way under ishin denshin....so I was a bit surprised when I read that had become your new ideal.

 

[Wally S.]

Long distance realtionship and.... ishin denshin

Japanese natives automatically recognize silence as the heart of a 'pure' and 'uplifting' interpersonal communion. What has to be spoken and verbalized is somehow distrusted as changable, or not 'real' and 'lasting' (ie harmonious).
So the whole premise behind Ishin denshin is to put the other person in a relationship first without concentrating on your own needs no matter what, whatever problems are lurking under the surface can be ignored in a culture afraid of embarrassing anyone by expressing itself too honestly or directly or unambiguously. :

Ok, so far so good, but how do you "show" you love to someone, if you have a long distance relationship???

In long distance relationship letters, phone calls, e-mail ( t's all verbal) are the only ways you can show you care...about your partner.

So it seems to me that "ishin denshin" is not at all compatible with long distance relationship. To put it bluntly; How the heck should I know that she cares, and wheather she loves me if she never puts it down on paper???

Was I so blunt or "egoistic" to expect from the lady that asks me to wait for her....that she verbalised her love in those difficult circumstances? Sure, if we lived close, it would be enough for me just to see her smile, and I would be content to spend time with her, and sometimes have sex....


Please tell me one thing, Elizabeth; What would you think, if your b/f would write only 8 letters in 1 and half years, asking you to wait for him, by saying; "Look toward seeing me again!", "Can you wait for me?", but he never once said "I miss you".

What I should do during those 2 years, pretend that someone loves me, while it looks like I'm tottaly alone, get scarce letters, and time passes...and she is not there with me to show me that she loves me.

Besides, if she loved me she wouldn't think I would be waiting for her 2 years just to see her during winter brake for 7-9 days, and then every year during summer vacation....To me it looked like she though I need g/f only for vacation, what about the rest of the year? I should hang my emotional life on the hook, and forget about it untill next summer?

 

[MajideSaiaku]

If she's anything like me she would give up and drop him and get on with her life, but thats the difference, whereas we have gotten over past break-ups you've still be stewing on yours and not seeking marriage councilling that i think even you know you need but are afraid to get.

Your statements of late have convinced me you want to go to Japan, perhaps pickup an asian lady....so theres two hypothesis.

1. Deep down (or lying to us) your still dwelling on Junko, and going to japan to date asian ladies is your way to compensate for her loss your still mourning all this time after, and maybe...just maybe a tiny spek of light inside your subconcious represents a small hope of bumping into Junko (thats if your Japan plan isnt actually to just go straight to where she lives i dunno).

2. The idea of going to Japan and "probably dating2 asian women is just an excuse, Japanese women, and Junko, serve as a way for you to express your disatisfaction with your marriage, its suffocating you because it isnt working 100%, and your pride or fear or any number of reasons stop you from just facing it, and expressing it to your wife, so a facination with asians is the way your mind is trying to cope with the fact your marriage isnt working out the way you want it to and you cant bring yourself to seek real help or dig up the bravery to confront your wife and the issue and take the possibly rocky road towards marital repair.


Meh, i aint a psychologist so i could just be b*llsh****ng, but thats my guess.

 

[Wally S.]

Your statements of late have convinced me you want to go to Japan, perhaps pickup an asian lady....so theres two hypothesis.
1. Deep down (or lying to us) your still dwelling on Junko, and going to japan to date asian ladies is your way to compensate for her loss your still mourning all this time after, and maybe...just maybe a tiny spek of light inside your subconcious represents a small hope of bumping into Junko (thats if your Japan plan isnt actually to just go straight to where she lives i dunno).
2. The idea of going to Japan and "probably dating2 asian women is just an excuse, Japanese women, and Junko, serve as a way for you to express your disatisfaction with your marriage, its suffocating you because it isnt working 100%, :

I believe its both. I'm unhappy because my realtionship with Junko didn't work out the way I have imagined, and I'm disapointed because I did loved her...

Secondly, Junko lives in Seattle now and I'm almost certain she's not married, when she was 19 she told me she wants to get married at 27, and I know how stuborn she is.... still pursuing her carier, and she will never marry Japanese...

Thirdly now, I understood partially with your help and especially few Japanese we had on this forum...I understood that Junko was probably treating me sersiously, but she was not ready to give me everything, she wanted to keep me close, and use me only when and how she wanted...

I don't have to go to Japan, because I live in Chicago suburbs and there's plenty of Japanese or other asian women around; international students, or local women with Japanese heritage.

It's all matter of comming moths, my wife told me already that she gives me another year, so I can make up my mind what I want. She still loves me and she want's to give us a second chance.

Nevertheless I'm almost certain that my wife is not my type, and I've maid a mistake, I need more challenging relationship. Besides my wife being 27 looks like she is 19, she is very feminine, but I always perefered "bad girls", women who are provocative and sor to enigma.

My wife is not that, for certain. This is why my other two relationship were with asian women. I think I'm in fact suffocating being stuck with my wife, alshough she is ownderufull, caring, and beautifull woman...she's just not my type, I have finally realised that, I was only fulling myself that I can be happy with my wife, I've always needed "bad girl" sombody more chalenging, that I can feel I can fight for.

 

[nice gaijin]

sounds like you're only happy when you're miserable, and that you've already made up your mind about your marriage. It's a shame that you're so wrapped up in the love you think you are entitled to, and now that you're married to someone willing to give it to you, you deprive them of it; pining over some long-lost ex, and already starting to plan your next relationship.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

Does sound a tad self-destructive...

bah, i got my own problems now, my girlfriend hasnt cotnacted me with a single word for 4 days....

 

[Rich303]

I've always needed "bad girl" sombody more chalenging, that I can feel I can fight for.

Fighting for someone becomes quite tedious after a while.

 

[Elizabeth]

I was only fulling myself that I can be happy with my wife, I've always needed "bad girl" sombody more chalenging, that I can feel I can fight for.

If it isn't a bad girl that will express their love or that you can ever have and hold in a romantic, grown-up relationship ? If you've convinced yourself you can't take the chance of anything more than a love of the chase without ever settling down, then that's very sad but at least it's an answer. Now what does a therapist think of it...☝ For whatever it's worth, my advice is to try and find someone to call your best friend first, a companion for life you get on with so well it was like you were put on this earth to find each other...
then try growing that into something more, if it feels right....Don't spend so much time trying to categorize everyone as a type (young feminine, Asian rebel whatever) as going with whatever attracted you to begin with to them as an individual person.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

Fighting for someone becomes quite tedious after a while.

Ahmen man, ahmen...

 

[Wally S.]

sounds like you're only happy when you're miserable, and that you've already made up your mind about your marriage. It's a shame that you're so wrapped up in the love you think you are entitled to, and now that you're married to someone willing to give it to you, you deprive them of it; pining over some long-lost ex, and already starting to plan your next relationship.

I don't think I was "entitled" for Junko's love, it's not like randomly picked her to be my lover, actually it was her, whith her g/f helping her who first made first step.

I'm not entitled for Junko's love, but Junko was not entitled to make me wait for her, 2 years doing absolutelly minimum. Ok, she didn't say "I love you" because she didn't feel that way. I understand that. But why would she tell me to "wait for her" and "look forward seeing me some day!!!"...is she didn't love me?

Answer; because she was little immature girl who found it comforting to have a caring b/f who, will always be on her call, whenever she feels like she wants sex or want's to spend nice vacation...

What bothers me is that she thought she can have a b/f who she does absolutelly nothing for...for over a year, no caring letters, never says :"I miss you", just ocasionall cold letters. Then she thinks that after 9 moths of not writihg at all she can just send a note to me:"I'm finally comming to US, to study in Seattle (never mind its all across US from you), "I have only 7-9 days winter break and we can see each other then".....give me a break, this girl was crazy thinking I would be waiting for her 2 years, and then I would be happy to spend vacation with her...

 

[Wally S.]

Fighting for someone becomes tedious

Fighting for someone becomes quite tedious after a while.

Very true, but I wished it was so simple with my relationship with Junko.

If not for the long distance relationship, and seperation, It would not cost me so much effort, sucrifice and finally apathy and a heart brake.

I wished I could continue to date Junko for few more moths then we both could make decision if I we want to continue and grow our realtionship. Instead of that the seperation made me idealise her initially, and because of limited contact the disapointment grew larger...and finally it all ended, not because she didn't want me or I didn't want her no more.

It happened because we had different priorities, and were not able to compromise, we grew more distant, and irrealistic.

So, yes you are correct; fighting for someone becomes tedious and you think you would be happier if you just forget about that person. Unfortuantelly it doesn't work like that, just look at me after more then 6 years I'm still wondering what could have been.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

You know, i have to ask this, though i fear its going to cause you more toruble with this Junko deal...

Why didnt you just try and see her?

What i mean is, why didnt you just accept the distance, and cross the country?...she had offered you an avenue to meet up, a way to get face to face and really find out how she felt, and you let something like distance ruin it?.

I'm a home town boy, i will be honest about that, i love my home city and the country around it, i am quite happy here and have never seen any reason whatsoever to live outside it or visit outside it for anything less then a holiday to somewher ei wanted to go to.

I hate flying, i cant stand it.

I've never been away from home, all by myself to foreign countries, the last time a flied was when i was a kid to teneriffe.

december 23rd last year, i took my luggage and went to Aberdeen international airport....i got on a plane to Amsterdam Airport.
When i got off the plane i went to a wall and slump down and cried...yes i cried...i was in a foreign country all by myself having had a fight with my girlfriend before the flight, i waited up all night to hear from her, only to have a basic "yes, come to japan" message.....i only had this one poxy email to base this whole stupid expedition on, coupled with my other problems i cried, because i was alone in a foreign country with foreign faces all around me, unsympathetic, going to the other side of the world for someone i didnt even know would be waiting for me at the other end.

Suffice to say it was an emotional and physical deal for me.

But i did it, and i went to Japan, a country i otherwise had no intention of visitting, and i met the girl i love, and i spent 2 months with her.


Remembering that, i just wonder, why the **** did you let something as pointless as crossing your country to meet the girl you lvoed after a frosty correspondance, get in the way?.

If my girlfriend was ever ill in hospital or anything, i would do what i could to get on a plane to get to her.

Now im going to admit it, im a weak man, yet the strength of my feelings got me on a plane into the unknown and kept me going.

Taking the assumption your a strong man (emotionally and physically to be in the marines and live in other countries) you should had more then enough inner strength to cross your own goddam country so why didnt you? when it finally came to it and you finally had a chance of happyness together, just one poxy chance, why didnt you grab it?.



Dwelling over that i have to agree as others said that perhaps, deep down, your only happy when your miserable.

 

[Elizabeth]

I don't think I was "entitled" for Junko's love, it's not like randomly picked her to be my lover, actually it was her, whith her g/f helping her who first made first step.
I'm not entitled for Junko's love, but Junko was not entitled to make me wait for her, 2 years doing absolutelly minimum. Ok, she didn't say "I love you" because she didn't feel that way. I understand that. But why would she tell me to "wait for her" and "look forward seeing me some day!!!"...is she didn't love me?
Answer; because she was little immature girl who found it comforting to have a caring b/f who, will always be on her call, whenever she feels like she wants sex or want's to spend nice vacation...
What bothers me is that she thought she can have a b/f who she does absolutelly nothing for...for over a year, no caring letters, never says :"I miss you", just ocasionall cold letters.

What should bother you infinitely more is why you fell for it so completely and remained so clueless to the cultural differences that arose like a gulf between you, why you think a few more months would have changed that and why you still continue to pine for a woman (girl) like her, detracting from any self-criticism or self-blame as desparately as humanly possible.

 

[Rich303]

Wally, Wally, Wally. Just forget it dude - you will be much better off.

There is no point trying to rationalise something that finished so long ago.
By now you have twisted it all round in your head and there is no answer.

Believe me I know. My 'relationship' went from a nuclear explosion to barely a spark, and I tried to figure out if was something I did or said wrong, or maybe she's just met someone else.(although we still communicate quite regularly)
It is heart-breaking when a girl still wants to keep in touch as it makes you think there is still something there, but chances are it will be left up to you
to figure out that she's not really interested romantically.

Even now I sometimes think 'maybe it is a misunderstanding, and she loves me', or it is my misunderstanding of Japanese thinking - I still remember how good it felt in the early stages. Once I was so happy I cried (in private, not to her) and now it's all f*cked, but I just have to deal with it.

This is what you have to do, Wally - and I'm not sure how much more people on JREF can do to help regarding this matter.

 

[Wally S.]

Answer

You know, i have to ask this, though i fear its going to cause you more toruble with this Junko deal...
Why didnt you just try and see her?
What i mean is, why didnt you just accept the distance, and cross the country?...she had offered you an avenue to meet up, a way to get face to face and really find out how she felt, and you let something like distance ruin it?.
"yes, come to japan" message.....i only had this one poxy email to base this whole stupid expedition on, coupled with my other problems i cried, because i was alone in a foreign country with foreign faces all around me, unsympathetic, going to the other side of the world for someone i didnt even know would be waiting for me at the other end.
Suffice to say it was an emotional and physical deal for me.
But i did it, and i went to Japan, a country i otherwise had no intention of visitting, and i met the girl i love, and i spent 2 months with her.
Remembering that, i just wonder, why the **** did you let something as pointless as crossing your country to meet the girl you lvoed after a frosty correspondance, get in the way?.

Taking the assumption your a strong man (emotionally and physically to be in the marines and live in other countries) you should had more then enough inner strength to cross your own goddam country so why didnt you? when it finally came to it and you finally had a chance of happyness together, just one poxy chance, why didnt you grab it?.

Nurizeko,
I did exactly same thing you did, I went to see Junko in Osaka, although we spoke for 2 months on the phone...I belived she will pick me up at Kansai airport, and she did...although my buddies have warned me that if she was lying I'lll be left alone to myself in the foreign country.

But we met, and it was wonderfull. Going back to your question the reason why I didn't want to accept the more distance after almost 2 years long distance realtionship, was because I believed that now it was her turn to prove she cared, to show her love to my by flying in just to see me.

After 1 and half years of friendly and then rather frosty corespondence I felt 7-9 days was not enough, because I felt sutpid, it looked like I'm the only one in this realtionship who cares. Besides it was of course me who had to arrange tickets, fly across country to see a girl who in 1 and half years didn't care to say; "I miss you"???

I accepted long distance relationship but I never envisionged it will be that way...Yes I could wait 2 years for a women that loves me or at least cares for me, but not for just a girl who wants to have more sex with a hadsome foreighner and spend nice vacation with him.

She did very little for me and it made me withdraw, because I saw my friends in military, who by the way were poor lover, being adored by their wifes and girlfriends...and I was in hopeless realtionship with Junko that didn't even bother to say "I miss you once" that's why I got sick of it.