Violent anti-Japanese demonstration in Beijing, China

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For instance, some similarities in motives could be found when studying about the Boxer Rebellion.

The boxer rebellion was Chinese rebelling against, European powers controlling parts of China, including the opium trade. Why is this similiar to that ?
 
This saddens me. Did Japan do something recently to piss them off or do they just feel the need to blow off some steam about something?
 
"Crystal Night" redux?

Elizabeth said:
Atrocities meaning Japanese restaurants in China having their front glass shattered or the embassy getting a brick through its window ? :?


Well, if you subsitute the word "Japanese" with "Jewish," you may get the idea that this is another version of Crystal Night, which was the beginning of the Holocaust. Just an observation.
 
"Crystal Night" redux?

Just so you will see the parallels between what happened to Jewish businesses in Germany and Austria in 1938 and what's going on in China against Japanese businesses, this describes "Crystal Night."

Crystal Night (Kristallnacht)

"Crystal Night" or "Night of the Broken Glass" pogrom conducted throughout Germany and Austria on November 9 and 10, 1938
It was officially presented as a spontaneous outburst provoked by the assassination of the third secretary of the German embassy in Paris, Ernst vom Rath, by a seventeen-year-old Polish Jew, Herschel Grynszpan. The name Kristallnacht refers to the broken shop windows of Jewish stores. The riots came as the culmination of assaults made upon the Jews in Germany and Austria. The catalytic development was the deportation of about 17,000 Polish Jews who were driven into a no-man's-land between the two countries on October 28, 1938. The greatest number of the deportees were left stranded near the border town of Zbaszyn. Herschel Grynszpan's parents were in this group, and news of their plight drove the desperate youth to his act of revenge. Following his shooting of vom Rath on November 7, sporadic anti-Jewish rioting started on November 8. On the afternoon of November 9, vom Rath died. The same evening, Joseph Goebbels harangued the "old fighters" of the party who had gathered in Munich at their annual commemoration of Hitler's abortive putsch of November 8 and 9, 1923. That night, instructions were conveyed to all parts of the country. In accordance with the orders, the crowds were encouraged by the SA to participate in the atmosphere of outrage. Mass frenzy broke out, synagogues were destroyed and burned, shop windows of Jewish-owned stores were shattered, the shattered glass covering the sidewalks, and the demolished stores were looted. Jewish homes were assaulted, and in many places Jews were physically attacked. About 30,000 Jews - especially those who were influential and wealthy - were arrested, often with the help of previously prepared lists, and were thrown into concentration camps, where they were treated with great cruelty by the SS. This was the first time that riots against the Jews of Germany had been organised on such an extensive scale, accompanied by mass detention. The pogrom was followed by administrative and legal orders issued with a fourfold object: 1) to complete the process of "Aryanization" to the benefit of the government's disrupted revenues: 2) to expedite the Jews' emigration: 3) to isolate the Jews completely from the general population: 4) and to abolish the still quasi- autonomous organisation of the Reichsvertretung (the National Representation of Jews in Germany) and other official Jewish institutions. A fine of one billion Reichsmarks imposed on the Jewish community under the pretext of reparation for the murder of vom Rath, the insurance payments for the damages were confiscated by the State and Jewish store owners were made liable for the repairs.

"Aryanization" was to be implemented
On Heydrich's suggestion, it was decided to co-ordinate the Jews' emigration through a Central Office for Jewish Emigration to be established in Germany along the lines of the one developed by Adolf Eichmann in Austria. Jewish children were removed from public schools. The sharp reaction to the Kristallnacht outrage that was expressed by the Western press and public did not affect the Nazis. President Franklin D. Roosevelt recalled the United States ambassador, Hugh Wilson, as a protest and declared his deep shock. Public pressure did, however, force most of the western European governments to admit some refugees, especially children. Goering, who had persuaded Hitler to put him in charge, now handled the Reich's Jewish policy together with Himmler, and Goebbels's aspirations to play a decisive part were thus thwarted. The methods of the SS and of the SD under Heydrich became policy. While this conclusion about the result of the outbreak is generally accepted, historians differ in their opinions about its cause. Some hold that Goebbels exploited circumstances by improvisation, and others maintain that the assault was premeditated; probably both methods were involved. In any case, Kristallnacht was a turning point. It was the Nazis' first experience of large-scale anti-Jewish violence, and opened the way to the complete eradication of the Jews' position in Germany.

Using the pretext of venting anger against innocent Japanese businesses over what some textbooks said or not said about Japan's role in World War II is completely dishonest. I smell something more at work in all of this.
 
It is strange that the Chinese Communist Party is able to stop riots against itself but not against other countries.

I feel sorry for the Tibetans (Tibet) Free Tibet |, the Mongols (Inner-Mongolia) www.innermongolia.org and the Uygurs (East Turkestan aka Xinjiang) http://www.uygur.org that their lands are still being occupied by the Chinese Communists.
 
ArmandV said:
Just so you will see the parallels between what happened to Jewish businesses in Germany and Austria in 1938 and what's going on in China against Japanese businesses, this describes "Crystal Night."
Boaaaah! What now?
The Night of Broken Glass (Reichskristallnacht) is similar to what's happening now in China? Either you forgot your history lessons or you deliberately blow the event out of proportion.
Reichskristallnacht not only means that some shop windows were broken. Jews were beaten up & raped, 91 killed. 30,000 Jews were sent to concentration camps, where several hundred died. Do you see this happening to the Japanese in China? You should be careful about what you compare!

The current protests probably have tacit approval by the CCP, but it's very doubtful that they get really out of hand. It's even more doubtful that China would adopt a similar policy to Japanese as the Nazis had regarding Jews.

You should not forget that there is a lot at stake for the CCP. If they would allow the mob to really destroy Japanese factories or similar, they lose more than they get. Japan is one of the biggest trading partners of China. If Japanese companies don't invest anymore or stop producing in China, hundreds of thousands Chinese might lose their jobs. Since they have already enough trouble with unemployment, the CCP most probably won't let that happen.

Using anti-Japanese sentiments to distract from domestic problems is one thing. But if the CCP would let these sentiments get out of hand, they would cut their own flesh.
 
I just watched the news on CNN about the Chinese protestactions.As has been said here the main reasons of this demonstrations of the Chinese youth is because of the textbook that whitewashes Japan's crimes in China and Korea + they don't agree with Japan entering a seat on the UN Security Council. An interesting thing said was the Chinese also have to realise that the Japan of today is not the Japan of the past anymore.



here's the CNN news article :
CNN.com - Japan protection call over protests - Apr 10, 2005
 
bossel said:
Boaaaah! What now?
The Night of Broken Glass (Reichskristallnacht) is similar to what's happening now in China? Either you forgot your history lessons or you deliberately blow the event out of proportion.
Reichskristallnacht not only means that some shop windows were broken. Jews were beaten up & raped, 91 killed. 30,000 Jews were sent to concentration camps, where several hundred died. Do you see this happening to the Japanese in China? You should be careful about what you compare!

The current protests probably have tacit approval by the CCP, but it's very doubtful that they get really out of hand. It's even more doubtful that China would adopt a similar policy to Japanese as the Nazis had regarding Jews.

You should not forget that there is a lot at stake for the CCP. If they would allow the mob to really destroy Japanese factories or similar, they lose more than they get. Japan is one of the biggest trading partners of China. If Japanese companies don't invest anymore or stop producing in China, hundreds of thousands Chinese might lose their jobs. Since they have already enough trouble with unemployment, the CCP most probably won't let that happen.

Using anti-Japanese sentiments to distract from domestic problems is one thing. But if the CCP would let these sentiments get out of hand, they would cut their own flesh.

Yes, I know my history, thank you. In reading the news stories over the incidents in China against Japanese businesses, I was reminded of "Crystal Night." See my first post with Elizabeth's quote. My second post was for the purpose of educating those here who don't know what "Crystal Night" was.

I am just pointing out the similarites. There are still fanatical Maoists around in the Chinese Communist Party. Given the chance, they could be just as vicious as the Nazi Party in Germany. I am not saying that they will, there are enough "moderates" around to hold them in check. But the fact remains that what ultimately led to the Holocaust began with the incidents of "Crystal Night."

If they are crazy enough to pass a law that gives China the authority to wage war against Taiwan if it should declare its independence (remember, they do conduct trading business with Taiwan), then it could be argued that they could be crazy enough to do other things.

Those who don't learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat them. What began as "little incidents" snowballed into World War II.

Just some food for thought!
 
Boy, the Chinese really aren't going to make any friends by openly declaring that they don't like Japan - a country allied with and well-respected by most of the world. :56:
 
Well said, Armand V. Bossel, if this demonstrations becomes worse there may be looting and rape, God forbid. I doubt this would occur, but if the demonstrations and looting become worse, then I could see cases of it occuring.
 
Hiroshi66 said:
Well said, Armand V. Bossel, if this demonstrations becomes worse there may be looting and rape, God forbid. I doubt this would occur, but if the demonstrations and looting become worse, then I could see cases of it occuring.
Well....anyway....this latest round of demostrations appear to have been halted by Chinese officials for the time being. I'm tuned in to Japanese news pretty much constantly and I can tell you this has the feel much more of protests that take place every four years in the wake of textbook revisions (although generally in Korea, only a few thousand people on the occasion of an official visit, perhaps the involving recall of ambassadors or some other diplomatic maneuvering) than the beginning of a world war. It hasn't even been the lead story on every newscast....there is a much greater sense of trepadation in the area directed at the North Korea and the China-Taiwan situations. Since I think the Japanese people are in a much better position to judge what the beginning of genocide looks like, for now I'm taking my cues from them. 😌
 
Elizabeth said:
Well....anyway....this latest round of demostrations appear to have been halted by Chinese officials for the time being. I'm tuned in to Japanese news pretty much constantly and I can tell you this has the feel much more of protests that take place every four years in the wake of textbook revisions (although generally in Korea, only a few thousand people on the occasion of an official visit, perhaps the involving recall of ambassadors or some other diplomatic maneuvering) than the beginning of a world war.


This is good to hear. Maybe the Chinese officials saw that public opinion was against the protests and decided to cut their losses. We'll see.
 
bossel said:
That's a bit over the top, just like Maciamo saying that China now is "more repressive than the German or Japanese one in the 1930's". That's simply not true. Germany in the 30s was much worse.

Maybe not China now, but in the 1950's, 60's and 70's... Could you say that Germany has ever reached such a level of repression, when people in China were not even allowed to move city without an official permission, or forced to move to the remote countryside and work as farmers even if they were intellectuals ? Many people in China now have grown up under this repressive regime of Mao, and surely still have deep frustrations inside them now (which they may have transmitted to their children).
 
Eisuke said:
It is strange that the Chinese Communist Party is able to stop riots against itself but not against other countries.

It's not that they are unable, they just don't feel the need to. They know it is better for the PRC government to let people attack foreign government than their own !
 
Maciamo said:
Maybe not China now, but in the 1950's, 60's and 70's... Could you say that Germany has ever reached such a level of repression, when people in China were not even allowed to move city without an official permission, or forced to move to the remote countryside and work as farmers even if they were intellectuals ? Many people in China now have grown up under this repressive regime of Mao, and surely still have deep frustrations inside them now (which they may have transmitted to their children).
Actually, China in the Cultural Revolution probably was worse than Germany in the 30s. The PRC has changed dramatically since then, though. It's still a repressive dictatorship, but far from anything Nazi-like. Well, for the common Han -Chinese, that is. Tibetans & Uyghurs still have to suffer.
 
Yeah, I think Maciamo meant the PRC of Mao's time. The PRC of today seems similar to the ROC of the late 1970's.. a country of significant economic activity still stuck in authoritarianism.
 
Japan actually helped Communists in China

well, things are more complex than what it seems.
textbook actually is not the main thing provocating China, but rather, the taiwan problem. because Japan's involvement in this issue, China and taiwan's relationship becomes more complicated and yet, more opportunities occured.Taiwan's party (Guomindang) is now visiting the Communist's party in China, two parties are trying to work together to fight Chen Shuibian's party(Minjindang), this can mean a huge change in China' political situation, hence in order to direct the attention, China chose Japan as the center of focus.
Japan, actually accelerated the change for the domestic strucutre in China, if Taiwan and China really reunited quicker,and if China will be shared by several parties in future(well, still too soon to say), it will be of Japan's help.
Actually the communist party in China has already secretly divided into several parties, they are just maintaining the the name still as "Communist party", so which real group in this party will make use of Guomindang from Taiwan, is unpredictable.
China will be ruled by several parties in future for sure, but no one knows when it will come, everyone in China is watching.
However, it is a pity that Japan actually became the scapegoat for the domestic fight for powers.
Japan picked a very sensitive point, which is very risky and seeing from every angle, Japan is going to lose in this game.the winner will be the Communist party in China,and Japan helped them to win.
 
If the history problem of Japan caused the demonstration, the elderly people who are direct victims must be the centers of a demonstration.
However, the participant in a demonstration is a young generation.
Probablyツ、It is thought that reduction of ODA from Japan to China is the cause.
 
pipokun said:
Really hope that the innocent mobs would transform into the future democratic movements there.
It is what the communist party is scared of, because their "nationalist" education could now backfire on them.

That is why Chinese government cannot apologize for the property damages made in the weekend:
China Not to Blame for Current Situation of Sino-Japanese Ties: FM Spokesman
Those "patriotic" Chinese will start criticizing the government for kneeling down to Japan, if an apology is ever made.

However it is the matter of time til Koizumi visits Yasukuni again (he has been visiting the shrine every year since he got elected for the first time in 1972.)
Vitriol will be the only thing Chinese government can do when it happens, due to decline of communist sypathizers' social influences in Japan since the football games and submarine intrusion. Those "liberals" can no longer collaborate with their boss, such as forcing apology, reparations and resignation of "right wing" politicians.
It is easy to imagine that angry Chinese start blaming their government for not punishing Japan properly. Who knows what kind of chaos will follow.

And the street demo can go wrong anytime. Frustrations among people have been growing, as mentioned in this thread. What if anti-Japan demo spectators joining in the march to turn itself into anti-gov't mob? What will happen if some of them are killed by riot police, perhaps in Tiananmen Square.
 
窶督シ窶督ウ窶堋オ said:
What if anti-Japan demo spectators joining in the march to turn itself into anti-gov't mob? What will happen if some of them are killed by riot police, perhaps in Tiananmen Square.
Wishful thinking?

I'd say: Not much.
For quite some time to come there is not much chance of a successful uprising against the Communists. Perhaps in 5 to 10 years, or later. You shouldn't underestimate the control which the CCP still has. It's declining & events as in the former USSR can evolve rather quickly, but the probability for something like that to happen at the moment is low.
 
bossel said:
The current protests probably have tacit approval by the CCP, but it's very doubtful that they get really out of hand.
CCP might not be a solid monolithic entity. If those fenqing clowns are still loyal to Jiang Zemin, power struggle inside CCP might result a bit confusion to the nation in the form of demo/riot.
If they would allow the mob to really destroy Japanese factories or similar, they lose more than they get. Japan is one of the biggest trading partners of China. If Japanese companies don't invest anymore or stop producing in China, hundreds of thousands Chinese might lose their jobs. Since they have already enough trouble with unemployment, the CCP most probably won't let that happen.
No economic bubble lasts forever, and natural resources on/under the Earth are not enough to give middle-class life for all of one billion Chinese people.
Therefore it is the matter of either soft-landing or hard-landing of the economy in the long run.

Interesting report:
Chinese Official Says Protests Will Not Impact Economic Ties

Using anti-Japanese sentiments to distract from domestic problems is one thing. But if the CCP would let these sentiments get out of hand, they would cut their own flesh.
Yes that was why Hu Jintao crashed the 爱国者同盟网 website (related post) in 2004.
But it is up and running again lately. What does it mean, who has the control over the fenqing now.
Interestingly, there were virtually no how-much-I-hate-Japan posts by JREF members from China since Hu took over the government, until this thread appeared yesterday.
 
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窶督シ窶督ウ窶堋オ said:
However it is the matter of time til Koizumi visits Yasukuni again (he has been visiting the shrine every year since he got elected for the first time in 1972.)

Err, I guess you meant since he was elected in 2001. :p
 
Another May Fourth revolt could happen.. though the last time students criticized the government's ineffiency towards Japan in this way was back in 1919 when Beijing was under warlord rule.
 
I understand the anger, they should not be glossing over the things in the past. Japan did some bad things, and they shouldn't be swept under the rug. But they're handling it the wrong way, rioting makes them look like the villains in this case. The Japanese today are not the same as those during World War II. I don't punch every German I see in the face because Hitler and his crew were ***holes. I thought that was common sense.
 
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