why do you deny it.
in japanese newspaer at that time , american soldeiers raped so many Japanese women
even after SF treaty , there were 1878 raping reported by american for 8 months, according to regular session of japanese House of Councillors
the woest one was raped by 27 american soldiers 1st sep 1945
You are right! Now I wonder why some Americans can't discuss the topic without mentioning "Japanese this, Japanese that" on this very thread? It belongs on the other thread.:?However this is not related to this thread and belongs on the Comfort Women thread, not here, I am going to ask a moderator to split this off from here and place it in the appropriate location ok.
because there were so many raping by American?This thread is about the brothel's that the JAPANESE GOVERNMENT set up, and which the US military personel used for the 6 or 7 months following the end of WWII and at the begining of the Occupation period of Japan
because there were no many raping by American?
the order was secreat....and J-gervenment made it
isnt it a common sense that is by your logic
u r driving me made i can not under stand u at all
GHQツ(ヒ廣ツ坂?。ツ坂?佛坦窶伉最スi窶氾溪?「窶敖:General Head Quartersツ)窶堙 9 ナ椎ス窶堙坂?堋カ窶堙溪?堙架廣ツ坂?。ナ坦窶廃ヒ?藩??ナス{ツ静昶?堙個静昶?冰窶堙ー窶督ス窶氾溪?堋オツ、窶牢ツ坂?佛?e窶冢窶堙架?藩??ツ焦?窶堋ェ窶昶?楪春窶ケテ?ステ?RAA)
Caster I take it you didnt even read the article, or if you did you missed this....Japanese G made a RAA(Recreation and Amusement Association)with tears to defend other japanese women because of american raping
(
The orders from the Ministry of the Interior came on August 18, 1945, one day before a Japanese delegation flew to the Philippines to negotiate the terms of their country's surrender and occupation.
You know, the evidence was destroyed by the US, shame on them!Or that the order came from the US government and it was secret? (If this is the case and the order was secret how do you know about it, if it exists?)
I'm not 100% sure, but maybe ianspikedawg is also using a translator to write his messeges, I couldn't understand what he wrote one bit.I am not 100% sure but I think that our friend Caster here is using a translator to write his messages in English, and it makes it rather difficult at times to understand what he is writing.
we still have are troop in japan y? we are in a new war get are men out of their and in irac
The only thing the US is guilty of is allowing it's members to go to those establishments. Which I point out again here was for only about 7 months, they were placed off limits by MacArthur because of the spread of venereal disease amongst the troops and the P.R. problems that it would cause back home. The brothel's went out of business soon afterwards.
Interestingly, Talmadge takes some of his article from the ツ'official' Japanese history of the enslavement and it reads like this: ツ"As expected, after the comfort stations opened it was elbow to elbow. The comfort womenツ…had some resistance to selling themselves to men who just yesterday were the enemy, and because of differences in language and race, there were a great deal of apprehensions at first. But they were paid highly, and they gradually came to accept their work peacefully.ツ"
The rest of my article will definitely argue a very different point of view--that no woman accepts rape ツ"peacefully.ツ" It is a point that would not seem to need proving, but the notion that a prostitute cannot be raped because she is paid and because she asked for it and the idea that if she is Asian, it is part of her culture to be a whoreツ―these ways of thinking predominate among the soldiers who frequent prostitutes. Someone has to express that it is not so. Someone has to express that paying does not making rape okay. I wish I could find another person to do this since it troubles me deeply to be only one voice in a world that regards the ***** as a disposable non-entity who feels no pain.
The way journalists refuse to express the pain of the tortured in the service of some imaginary ツ'objectivity' betrays the extreme suffering these women endured. And it leaves the reader with the idea that a woman will accept rape by 60 men ツ"peacefully.ツ" Talmadge's article does not mention the pain the women experienced. Nor does he in any way refute the idea that the women came to accept mass rape ツ"peacefully.ツ" So, it is up to me to add the view of the ***** whose body is violated 60 times a day. There does not seem to be anyone else around to do it.
For one, contrary to the above statement, the girls were not paid highly. They were held in debt bondage, as are all sexually enslaved girls, thus little of the money would have gone to them. Even if they had been ツ'paid highly,' how could this in any way make constant rape palatable to them? Let alone ツ"peaceful.ツ"
As for the girls having ツ"some resistanceツ" to selling themselves to enemy men of a different race, the resistance was major: the girls cried and screamed and tried to run away when the GI's entered the brothels. Terrified of these huge men, they held onto things to keep from being pushed down and mounted. Girls who tried to escape were shoved back in by MP's.
Yoshimi Yoshiaki's Comfort Women: Sexual Slavery in the Japanese Military During WWII contains the following assessment of the girls' fear: ツ"The first comfort station, Komachien, was set up in the Tokyo-Yokohama area. It was opened as early as August 27. The women were petrified of the U.S. soldiers pouring in and began weeping. There were even some who clung to posts (holding up the roof) and wouldn't move.ツ"
How is crying and being terrified considered ツ"some resistance.ツ" How could the men mount the girls if they were so terrified? How else can you analyze this behavior except as rape? And I would like to ask the girls who were mounted 60 times a day if they came to accept this ツ"peacefully.ツ" I would like to ask them how their bodies felt after 60 rapes and how they managed to not bleed to death in just one day, let alone being able to withstand this day after day after day. Were they stunned into shock the whole time? Were they even aware of who was mounting them, so deep would have been the shock to their bodies and minds? Hopefully, they did what other mass raped women report doing: become numb to bear the unbearable, and become indifferent to the disgust of intercourse with serial soldier rapists.
The male view that this activity can be accepted ツ"peacefullyツ" must be countered. Did the Japanese officials who observed the girls being raped into ツ"acceptanceツ" perhaps mistake the comatose state of the in-shock body for ツ"peaceツ"? Did they mistake the expression in the rape-dead eyes for ツ"peaceツ"?
Talmadge writes: ツ"MacArthurs's primary concern was not only a moral one.ツ"
Actually MacArthur's primary concern was not a moral one at all. If it were, why didn't he stop the setting up of the Mass Rape Stations in August 1945? He knew they were there. He knew about the long rapelines. By failing to stop the system at its inception, he tacitly condoned the rape of these girls' bodies thousands of times by thousands of men.
In fact, according to Tanaka, the reason for closing down the brothels was simple: the GI's had given the majority of the girls VD. It did not go in the opposite direction since most of the enslaved were virgins before they screamed and cried under the heavy men and the first rapes. (It makes one ask where the GI's were raping ***** bodies before they landed in Japan. Some of the men had been in the European theatre and then were transferred over to the Pacific, so one can assume that that the starvation prostitution forced on the French, German, and Italian girls had infected them with VD as well.)
But I don't think it's "the only thing". If Comfort Women is a problem of human rights, the US is also guilty. In a point to moral responsibility, both US and Japan are not different.
If it were, why didn't he stop the setting up of the Mass Rape Stations in August 1945? He knew they were there. He knew about the long rapelines.
I would say the level of guilt to pass around would be what about 90% of the guilt belongs to Japan and 10% to the US.
Sorry about that, the actual percentages are meaningless I agree, I was attempting to make a different point however.This is nonsense! A rape is a rape.
Another point I have been trying to get our Japanese friends here to agree to is that the two issues are totally different and should not be confused with each other.
And right now it seems as if the "blame" game is what everyone wants to concentrate on, and imo nothing positive will happen until everyone admits that the "guilt" needs to be spread around.I agree. Relating these two issues can only lead to a blame-game. I find that the only fruitfull stance is to accept that women were violated in the past. I think that showing compassion for the women who were violated is the only decent thing to do.
I think we can agree that women were violated in the past by soldiers from both sides, and that it was wrong and regrettable. Then, finally we can progress to the more important issue: How do we move forward?
Interesting. Is the word "different" synonymous to the word "trivial"?Our friends here that are posting comments like, the US is just as guilty because they use the brothel's too....and that kind of thinking is to me at least, an attempt to justify what the Japanese did, or were guilty of.
I am sorry I wasnt actually expecting anyone to take it that seriously and I should have explained that better, my mistake here.
Another point I have been trying to get our Japanese friends here to agree to is that the two issues are totally different and should not be confused with each other.
Are we discussing Japan now?The US military was wrong....what about Japan?
France dared to refuse to help and the French people got all the dirt been thrown over them. No more French fries and more of that nonsense, because they refused to fight together with the U.S. against the Iraqi.
I don't agree with this statement either. I'm trying to point out other people's hypocrisy. Note my statement of "according to that rhetoric." It is rhetoric I had already stated that I do not accept. Hence, I don't believe that it is "just between the U.S. and Iraq."Sorry but I can't agree with you, I mean with : "It is between the U.S. and Iraq".
Read my second response to Elizabeth. I think you both misread me here.gaijinalways said:He said the opposite, that others could/should be involved and discuss issues like this.
Again, I don't disagree with you. I think you guys misunderstood me.Obeika said:GEL I apologize if I wasnt clear here, as "gaijinalways" points out and as I should have clearly stated everyone should get involved and help to find a amicable conclusion to this issue.
What exactly are you trying to prove? That American soldiers are as horny and (possibly) racist as any other nation's? That many of them are uneducated brutes? That a few bad apples will ruin everything for everybody else, and make a bad name for everyone? Because that's about all that your statements seem to imply. There is no evidence for comfort women. Rape is not prostitution, it is something much different, and actually, far worse.caster51 said:in japanese newspaer at that time , american soldeiers raped so many Japanese women
even after SF treaty , there were 1878 raping reported by american for 8 months, according to regular session of japanese House of Councillors
the woest one was raped by 27 american soldiers 1st sep 1945
Deny what? Caster, you fail to state your premise every chance you get, instead throwing out random facts and bits of information from which you draw some vague and amorphous conclusion that somehow in your mind, exonerates Japan and condemns the United States and/or Allied countries. Or, at least, that's your typical modus operandi.why do you deny it ?
Maybe because some of us are tired of a number of people turning threads that are supposed to be about Japan into "let's all hate the U.S." threads.diceke said:Now I wonder why some Americans can't discuss the topic without mentioning "Japanese this, Japanese that" on this very thread?
Not since we siezed their assets. Now they are crying to get their hands on some $20 million, which is pocket-change when it comes to government budgets.Sukotto said:North Korea a threat?
You really don't know much about war, peace, or global politics. I can't see how the United States shutting down its entire military-industrial complex will promote peace, especially in places like Africa, where wars are raging that have nothing to do with the United States. Where's your "peace dividend" now, sparky? It's really easy for slightly post-pubescent and barely educated armchair politicians to go around making axiomatic claims with only flimsy facts, faulty reasoning, and lots of cool, anti-Bush-bandwagon buzzwords to back them up. It seems that every idiot with a high school diploma or a Bachelors in something apparently thinks they know everything there is to know about life, politics, and war, despite the fact that greater minds then theirs have wrestled with these concepts since the dawn of recorded history.So, yeah, close down Okinawa as a military installation, close all US military bases, close down the pentagon. time for a real peace dividend.
at first, american raped many japanese women.If you think American soldiers raping Japanese civilians is an atrocity, I'd agree. Yes, it is! Those guys deserve to be court-martialed and thrown in the stockade for as long as they would had they raped an American civilian.
If you think that American soldiers sleeping with Japanese prostitutes is an atrocity, well, I urge you to wake up and smell Real Life and accept that wherever there are soldiers (no matter what nation they are from), they will be sleeping with prostitutes.
If you think that Americans set up a "comfort women" system comparable to the one the Japanese set up in Korea, well, I don't accept that, and consider the two arrangements to be completely different.
japanese comfot women dicided with tears to dedend raping other japanese women.ヒ?藩??窶「w窶堋ス窶堋ソ窶堙債、ツ「窶堋ィツ坂?倪?堙娯?堋ス窶堙溪?堙俄?愿コ窶怒ツ鞘?板青ォ窶堙ーナステァ窶堙ゥツ青ォ窶堙娯?塗窶挌窶凖ァツ」窶堙俄?堙遺?堙ゥ窶堙??堋「窶堋、窶敕溪??窶堙闇塚??凪?堙娯?ーツコ窶堙可、RAA ナ?ツイ窶「窶昶?堋ス窶堋ソ窶堋ェ窶敖ュ窶堋キ窶堙ゥ窶氾懌?堙姑弛ニ停?愴旦ニ辰窶堙戸廣ナ津??堙俄?倪?披?堙ァ窶堙ェ窶堙?暖ニ停?ーニ鍛 ニ誰窶堙?渉ャ窶卍ャ窶ー竄ャ窶堙俄?愬セ窶吮?ヲ窶堋オ窶堙懌?堋オ窶堋スツ。
at first, american raped many japanese women.
they were not prostitute at all. they were just housewives, students and kids
Police officials and Tokyo businessmen established a network of brothels under the auspices of the Recreation and Amusement Association, which operated with government funds. On August 28, 1945, an advance wave of occupation troops arrived in Atsugi, just south of Tokyo. By nightfall, the troops found the RAA's first brothel.
japanese comfot women dicided with tears to dedend raping other japanese women.