U.S. troops used 'comfort women' after WWII

[KirinMan]

Yes, I get that the US didn't set them up, but I wonder if the occupation government encouraged Japan to set up the brothels (remember this happened during the occupation years) or Japan in paranoia decided to do it on their own?

From the article I highly doubt that the US Occupation forces had anything to do with the set up of the brothel's in question.

The orders from the Ministry of the Interior came on August 18, 1945, one day before a Japanese delegation flew to the Philippines to negotiate the terms of their country's surrender and occupation.

The war itself had only ended roughly one week before hand and the first troops of the Occupational Authority didnt come to Japan until the end of August........sorry this was in the article as well.

Police officials and Tokyo businessmen established a network of brothels under the auspices of the Recreation and Amusement Association, which operated with government funds. On August 28, 1945, an advance wave of occupation troops arrived in Atsugi, just south of Tokyo. By nightfall, the troops found the RAA's first brothel.

Plus I think it should be noted as well that the brothel's themselves were only in operation for about 7 months. No comparison in my opinion.

 

[diceke]

Was it right? Good question, however I would suggest that it was probably better that they used the brothel's than have the possibility of the "victorious" invaders raping the local women and girls. Like the article stated they were, the brothel's, set up to protect the local population.
One thing that seems to be forgotten here is that the US Military did not set these brothel's up, it was the Japanese authorites at the time, there is a rather large difference there in my opinion.
I do not think that the majority of the women employed by them were prostitutues by design either. Many because of economic conditions at the time had no other options, I feel that they did it because they wanted to live. Even the article points out one story of a girl who committed suicide because she had no other choice of work.
There are no true winners in war but too many losers, even those on the winning side.
You know even today there are those in the US Military that visit Japanese prostitutes even though the "law" here states that prostitution is illegal it still goes on. Times don't change things all that much, where there is lust and a man with money willing to pay, there always seems to be a place where there are women willing to take that money to satisfy them. That much will never change.
The only difference now is whether or not the women were forced or coerced into the work they are doing.

Yawn, Obeika.
I've already read elsewhere the similar arguments by the defendants of the Japanese comfort women system.
Try to be original, Obeika.

 

[KirinMan]

I've already read elsewhere the similar arguments by the defendants of the Japanese comfort women system.

Is that so? Then please feel free to share them here, I am sure it would make for some interesting reading. Please give everyone here a chance to see these arguments as well, thank you.

And as a wise man once told me, "Attack the argument and not the person", which after thinking about for a while makes pretty good sense.

Oh and now I am yawning too. Amazing how yawns spread around so quickly

 

[gaijinalways]

Obeika, love your avatar. I second your notion, cough it up dicek!

 

[diceke]

Obeika, kettle logic!

 

[KirinMan]

Obeika, kettle logic!

To be fair here and let you know ahead of time and FYI diceke since you choose to respond and write in your abbreviated manner without anything to add to the conversation I would just like you to know that for the time being until I see something of "value" that you can add to this conversation without it being argumentative or causing any undue agitation to the other members following along here I'll be passing on commenting on your posts here from now on.

Don't want you to think I was ignoring your comments or questions that you may make to me here, that would be poor manners as you know.

 

[diceke]

But you do realize that you haven't added anything much of "value" in your posts? Thus, my response. :?

Your posts remind me of this:

We all remember the old joke about the borrowed kettle which Freud quotes in order to render the strange logic of dreams, namely the enumeration of mutually exclusive answers to a reproach (that I returned to a friend a broken kettle): (1) I never borrowed a kettle from you; (2) I returned it to you unbroken; (3) the kettle was already broken when I got it from you.

Slavoj Zizek-Bibliography/The Iraq War/Lacan Dot Com

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

Actually, diceke, Obeika isn't the first person to stand up and defend the United States, ever. Which leads me to believe that his assessment of the argument is perfectly valid. It is, in fact, not comparable to the Korean "comfort women" system, because the Americans did not force women to sleep with them, but rather paid for sex like any other prostitute, a practice which American servicemen employed everywhere they went, including the United States of America. In this regard, you can say that there were comfort women for Americans in Hawai'i and San Francisco.

Sorry, buddy, but Obeika's arguments hold water and are perfectly logical. The Americans did not employ a system of comfort women in Japan. It was not something the Americans made compulsory. The Japanese government simply expanded and regulated prostitution, because they knew a bunch of horny American servicemen were going to be looking to have a "good time".

As a side note, members of any nation's armed forces are often not prime examples of that country's "best and brightest". The United States is no exception.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

Just goes to show that not everything is black and white.

Shame on the US troops and leadership involved/in the know and who did nothing.

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

Just goes to show that not everything is black and white.

Shame on the US troops and leadership involved/in the know and who did nothing.

Your two statements are totally antithetical to each-other. One is relativistic while the other is axiomatic. That doesn't make sense.

Shame on U.S. troops? I don't remember reading about how civil and humane English and Scottish soldiers and merchants were in 19th century British dominions in China. Maybe I should wag my finger at them?

My point is, you have no right, nor does anyone else, to assign blame. I don't say, "Shame on Japanese troops for Nanking." I say, "Hey, it happened, learn from it."

Although half if Europe is atheist, I still believe that some of Christ's words were worth heeding, especially, "He who is without sin, cast the first stone."

Besides, the system was dismantled after a few months. That should say something about a) how the Japanese expected the Americans to behave, and b) how they actually behaved.

If the system was taken down, maybe that was because the Americans weren't the sex-crazed monsters that the Japanese thought they'd be. Remember, at Okinawa , the Japanese threw themselves off of the cliffs, because they expected to be treated the same as they had treated the Chinese at Nanking.

By the way, Americans screwed their way across France and Germany, too, and those countries complain a heck of a lot less about it.

 

[hanachan]

"He who is without sin, cast the first stone."

I have already said once before.
Comfort Women What do you think? #300
I was hoping that this issue was over then. But Obeika set up a new place.
GEL and Obeika, what you insist here is that your "Comfort Women" are prostitutes, our "Comfort Women" are sex slaves. Is it called "double standard"?

In 1964, finally all American person became equal under the law, Civil Rights Act.
It passed 20 years since the war was over.
During the WW2, black people have not got this right yet.
We talk about things of 60 years ago not today.
The situation around people may be different from what we are thinking about.
In 1945, here are three kinds of people, the white GIs and the black GIs of the victorious nation, and the non-white women of defeated nation...
Their human rights were all equivalence? I don't think so.
The racism was there. At that time was White supremacy not so criticized?
I'm not a racist and won't insult anyone here.
However, when I try to explain or understand things those days, I can't ignore it.
Actually the first stage of occupation, US soldiers often seem to have treated Japanese women severely. (You can find these stories easily from the internet)

If someone from Korea started the thread of Comfort Women issue, Japanese wouldn't respond such emotionally.
I'm not ultra-nationalist as some people think. I'm pro-American conservatives. But I was disappointed... I don't know.

Thanks to many people who was only watching. I hope they found something and that's the reason why they never stepped into the discussion.

Anyway it is impossible that only the US is always right.

 

[Goldiegirl]

I agree that the US is not always right, it's just that we get our mistakes thrown in our face despite the good that we try to do. Not every US soldier is a sex deprived and crazed warrior who wants to rape. There are more good than bad.

 

[KirinMan]

what you insist here is that your "Comfort Women" are prostitutes, our "Comfort Women" are sex slaves. Is it called "double standard"?

Could you refresh my memory here please? Where did I make this qualification between the two?

Also just who are "our" comfort women and "your" sex slaves?

But Obeika set up a new place.

FYI this thread was started to stop people from hijacking that thread with references to this topic which as has been so elloquently pointed out on a number of occasions is a totally different topic and should not be confused with the "comfort women" issue.

Plus this thread and the other wont die out as you hope purely because, in my opinion, people from all over the world find it to be a serious topic that needs closure. Without the closure it will linger forever, particularly in the minds of the generations of families that were directlly affected by it.

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

GEL and Obeika, what you insist here is that your "Comfort Women" are prostitutes, our "Comfort Women" are sex slaves.

Uhhh, no. Actually, the term "comfort women" was applied to the prostitutes as a political buzzword because of it's obvious implications. And you are also putting words in our mouths. Your using the "straw man" fallacy here, saying that Obeika and I are saying that "oh, it's okay for U.S. troops to do it in Japan" which is absolutely not what we are saying, and you should damn well know it.

My claim is that the two situations are not even comparable and I think that's what Obeika is trying to say. Why?

Japanese government forced Korean women to sleep with Japanese soldiers.
vs.
Japanese government collected prostitutes and derelict Japanese women to "hire" them out to American soldiers.

There is a vast difference between the two actions. Nowhere did the American government force the Japanese to do this. In addition, the system was dismantled after a number of months, it did not continue in perpetuity.

That is my argument. If you don't agree with it, attack it, don't try to use red herrings.

In 1945, here are three kinds of people, the white GIs and the black GIs of the victorious nation, and the non-white women of defeated nation...
Their human rights were all equivalence? I don't think so.
The racism was there. At that time was White supremacy not so criticized?

And the Japanese would have been so kind and generous to the white monkeys had they reached San Francisco, right? The roundeyes wouldn't have been raped and beaten like the Chinese, correct?

Look, I'm not arguing that anyone was justified in any act of racism. But you cannot go around pointing your finger without having three of your own pointing back at you.

And guess what? White supremacy has been severely criticized in the United States ever since the 1960s. Hell, we are currently arguing to legalize millions of illegal immigrants. Compared to Japan, we are a paradise for those of diverse background. We require passports, as ID, but our cops don't go around harassing foreigners for their "gaijin cards".

Before people go around criticizing others, they should start examining themselves. And before anyone criticizes another country, they should take a hard look at their own and try to change their own first, before they try to change someone else's. At least, that's what plenty of people have been telling George W. Bush. Maybe they should start heeding their own advice.

Anyway it is impossible that only the US is always right.

Neither I nor Obeika ever said as much.

 

[KirinMan]

I agree that the US is not always right, it's just that we get our mistakes thrown in our face despite the good that we try to do. Not every US soldier is a sex deprived and crazed warrior who wants to rape. There are more good than bad.

I agree with this too, there are too many cases to list here from US history where the US was guilty of something.

And you are also putting words in our mouths. Your using the "straw man" fallacy here, saying that Obeika and I are saying that "oh, it's okay for U.S. troops to do it in Japan" which is absolutely not what we are saying, and you should damn well know it.

Thank you.

It had occured to me before that some of the Japanese people here posting on this thread find it wrong or somehow insensitive that a "gaijin" like me could bring up a topic such as this. Somehow this topic shouldn't be our concern and we should leave it to the Koreans, Japanese and Chinese to work it out amongst themselves.

My feelings were confirmed by this statement;

If someone from Korea started the thread of Comfort Women issue, Japanese wouldn't respond such emotionally.

I wonder if I jumped up here and said, "Hey I am a Korean-American" would that somehow change the force or intent of the thread? I wonder?

In my opinion this kind of thinking is very narrow minded, people all over the world share feelings and opinions about a wide variety of topics and issues and I don't think that they should be limited to one country or race. This isnt just a "Japanese-Korean" dispute and everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Before people go around criticizing others, they should start examining themselves. And before anyone criticizes another country, they should take a hard look at their own and try to change their own first, before they try to change someone else's. At least, that's what plenty of people have been telling George W. Bush. Maybe they should start heeding their own advice.

Another fine point. I agree that the US is not perfect and should take a stronger look at how the world views it. Right now it comes across as the biggest bully on the block without anyone around to control it.

Too me however it is just easier for people to point their fingers at the US because it is the popular thing to do today, plus having convenient memories.

 

[pipokun]

...
And guess what? White supremacy has been severely criticized in the United States ever since the 1960s. Hell, we are currently arguing to legalize millions of illegal immigrants. Compared to Japan, we are a paradise for those of diverse background. We require passports, as ID, but our cops don't go around harassing foreigners for their "gaijin cards".
...

Do you know how long our biometric info will keep in your government?
Of course, you don't have to go to your country if you don't want it. But the US is not innocent...

Anyways, thank you for your great visa waiver program for Japanese tourists.

If someone from Korea started the thread of Comfort Women issue, Japanese wouldn't respond such emotionally.

Same. But it is a bit sad that I saw lots of posters gone after he/she started one or two threads.

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

It had occured to me before that some of the Japanese people here posting on this thread find it wrong or somehow insensitive that a "gaijin" like me could bring up a topic such as this. Somehow this topic shouldn't be our concern and we should leave it to the Koreans, Japanese and Chinese to work it out amongst themselves.

According to that rhetoric, it is none of anyone's business what the United States is doing in Iraq. It's between the U.S. and Iraq, and somehow we should work it out for ourselves.

But that isn't the case, especially since everyone is wagging their fingers at us.

I also find it funny that the international community doesn't realize how much dissent there is in the American government.

 

[Elizabeth van Kampen]

To GodEmperorLeto

According to that rhetoric, it is none of anyone's business what the United States is doing in Iraq. It's between the U.S. and Iraq, and somehow we should work it out for ourselves.
But that isn't the case, especially since everyone is wagging their fingers at us.
I also find it funny that the international community doesn't realize how much dissent there is in the American government.

Sorry but I can't agree with you, I mean with : "It is between the U.S. and Iraq".

The British were there too as well as the Spanish (in the beginning). America asked several countries in Europe to help them with this war. Holland did help.
France dared to refuse to help and the French people got all the dirt been thrown over them. No more French fries and more of that nonsense, because they refused to fight together with the U.S. against the Iraqi.

 

[gaijinalways]

According to that rhetoric, it is none of anyone's business what the United States is doing in Iraq. It's between the U.S. and Iraq, and somehow we should work it out for ourselves.

GodEmperorLeto, you seem to have gotten the opposite meaning from what Obeika said. He said the opposite, that others could/should be involved and discuss issues like this. Obeika was stating that it is some Japanese who seem to think this.

Do you know how long our biometric info will keep in your government?
Of course, you don't have to go to your country if you don't want it. But the US is not innocent...

Uh, Pipokun, he has already stated that it's not innocent, so you two seem to be in agreement.

 

[KirinMan]

GodEmperorLeto, you seem to have gotten the opposite meaning from what Obeika said. He said the opposite, that others could/should be involved and discuss issues like this. Obeika was stating that it is some Japanese who seem to think this.
Uh, Pipokun, he has already stated that it's not innocent, so you two seem to be in agreement.

GEL I apologize if I wasnt clear here, as "gaijinalways" points out and as I should have clearly stated everyone should get involved and help to find a amicable conclusion to this issue.

 

[caster51]

after WW2 in japan..
there were so many documments that US soldiers raped Japanese women.
1,000 raping for 2month was reported once.
then GHQ ordered the japanese to make houses of comfort women for american .
there were so many like that in korea and vietnam.
let's critizise each other among ally.

 

[KirinMan]

then GHQ ordered the japanese to make houses of comfort women for american .

Caster if you read the OP and the article connected you will see that the US couldn't possibly have ordered the Japanese to set these houses up. The Japanese authorities started it before the US even landed in mainland Japan.

Caster you are wrong here.

And to the last part about Korea and Vietnam......it's off topic.....again

 

[caster51]

why do you deny it.
in japanese newspaer at that time , american soldeiers raped so many Japanese women
even after SF treaty , there were 1878 raping reported by american for 8 months, according to regular session of japanese House of Councillors

the woest one was raped by 27 american soldiers 1st sep 1945

 

[hanachan]

Japanese government forced Korean women to sleep with Japanese soldiers.
vs.
Japanese government collected prostitutes and derelict Japanese women to "hire" them out to American soldiers.

No one found a hard evidence that "Japan government forced".
But US Army has a hard evidence that "Japan government did not forced".
Here is a report by the Office of War Information (OWI) 窶｢ﾃ?静ｭﾅｽﾅｾﾂ湘ｮ窶｢ﾃｱ窶ｹﾃ?
Comfort women:US document to show girls were sold to brokers

M.739 purchased 22 Korean girls, paying their families from 300 to 1,000 according to the personality , looks and age of the girl. These 22 girls were of ages from 19ﾂ―31. They became the sole property of P.W. and the Army made no profits from them. H.Q. Korea Army gave him a letter addressed to all military H.Q. of the Japanese Army, requesting them to furnish any assistance he might require, transport, rations, medical attention, etc.

 

[KirinMan]

No one found a hard evidence that "Japan government forced".
But US Army has a hard evidence that "Japan government did not forced".
Here is a report by the Office of War Information (OWI) 窶｢ﾃ?静ｭﾅｽﾅｾﾂ湘ｮ窶｢ﾃｱ窶ｹﾃ?
Comfort women:US document to show girls were sold to brokers

Noone has denied that there were Korean parents that sold their daughters into prostitution.

However this is not related to this thread and belongs on the Comfort Women thread, not here, I am going to ask a moderator to split this off from here and place it in the appropriate location ok.