U.S. Forces in Japan: time to say good-bye?

[DoctorP]

CC1 can you tell me when the Yen was more powerful than USD....are you sure?!!!!!!!!

Speaking strictly of exchange rates here you go:
Yen to $
1994-07-01 98.45
1994-08-01 99.94
1994-09-01 98.77
1994-10-01 98.35
1994-11-01 98.04
1994-12-01 100.18
1995-01-01 99.77
1995-02-01 98.24
1995-03-01 90.52
1995-04-01 83.69
1995-05-01 85.11
1995-06-01 84.64
1995-07-01 87.40
1995-08-01 94.74

This was from my first time in Japan. Since then the dollar has rebounded, but recently it has dropped again.

 

[Lina Inverse]

The US-$ is on a clear downward trend lately. Actually, the Euro has reached a new historical height compared to the US-$ :haihai:
Actual course as of today is US$ 1.3255 per 1€, with an ongoing downward course for the US-$.
For any who don't know it, when the course of the € was set forth end of the 90s as an exact 1:1 course towards the US-$.
It's very interesting to see that since then, it has increased a whopping 32.55% in value in relation to the US-$ - or the US-$ has lot 32.55% in value Whichever way you see it.

The Yen course is currently at 136.77 Yen per 1€ (giving about 103 Yen per US-$), with an upward tendency however, so you'll soon get less than 100Yen/US-$ again.

 

[Brooker]

Actually, the Euro has reached a new historical height compared to the US-$ :haihai:

Historically? kashii: You mean since they started using Euros like a few years ago?

 

[MWThomas]

I honestly don't care whether or not U.S. forces leave Japan. With current trends in American decision making those forces in Japan may be called to occupy that nation.

 

[SkippyDaStudent85]

i would have to say that even though i loath bush, the current situation with korea is enough to justify american forces in japan. i juts wish they would revise japans constitution so they could form a military and join the un security council:0

I am in total agreement with you babar-san

 

[Shooter452]

I was stationed in Japan (Okinawa ) while I was on active duty and I think it would be a shame for the US to pull its military forces from Japanese soil. But I think that perhaps that it is time to leave.

Having military forces in Japan was a financial benefit to the Japanese when they recovered from the devastation of the Second World War, and was a benefit to the US startegic plans during the Cold War. Japan no longer needs the economic assistance. The US is no longer attempting to contain the Soviet Union. The Japanese do not fear China (although perhaps they should) and are contemplating the expansion of the JDF. They do not need us. They want us less and less to be there.

The shame is that without US forces on Japanese soil, the avearge US citizens are less likely to see Japan, the people there, and the interchange of culture and ideas will decrease. Travel is expensive, more so in Japan. Without the social exchange between our people, understanding will lessen and the specter of simple generalization might replace it.

I am not Japanese. I would never want to live in Japan. But I will always value my experiences there and I fear that I will never go there again.

 

[sabro]

I don't know enough about it, but I did vote yes. I am not certain that our presence in Japan is of neccessity to either country's interests. I could be persuaded to vote no however.

 

[m477]

The reasons for having the US military there have are basically all gone now as Shooter mentioned, so I think they should gradually phase out their presence in Japan. However, before that we should get our military out of Korea. SK has a huge army (all males are required to serve) so they can protect their own border. There's no reason to waste US taxpayers' money there any more.

 

[sabro]

Several of my friends in the military have said that any new Korean conflict would at least initially look like the last one. North Korea has no chance of winning a protracted engagement withough more Chinese help, which is probably not going to happen. But nothing could stop a massive push from the North from entering Seoul and pushing all the way to the southern part of the peninsula. (Not that US soldiers could do much about this, but their presence serves as a deterrent: You don't want to kill ten thousand GI's and then expect the US to stay home.)

Taiwan also seems to like having a US presence in the region.

 

[Shooter452]

The reasons for having the US military there have are basically all gone now as Shooter mentioned, so I think they should gradually phase out their presence in Japan. However, before that we should get our military out of Korea. SK has a huge army (all males are required to serve) so they can protect their own border. There's no reason to waste US taxpayers' money there any more.

I start with the cavaet that all my information is highly dated, but in this case I think that it might make it all the more relevant. But there are other reasons to close the bases on Okinawa.

On Okinawa, the facilities used by the USMC have become smaller in the number of acres used. This has limited the usefulness of those bases. Those acres known as the Northern Training Area (mostly jungle wilds of the northern end of the island) are vital for combat training of the units there. They have also become much desired for developement and the Tokyo government has often urged the US to surrender them. Without those training areas, the USMC bases are utterly useless...all the more reason to close all of them. Like Garcia Vieques and the Roosevelt Roads Navy Bases in Puerto Rico, without the NTA there is no purpose for keeping the Okinawa Marine bases open.

About the Air Force base at Kadena and all mainland Japanese bases I have no knowledge, nor opinions.

 

[m477]

Some more food for thought:

The Japanese government is footing most of the cost of keeping the American military in Japan (which is probably the reason why Japan needs such a large military budget). So there's obviously not a lot of motivation for the US to remove its forces.

Also, this might sound odd, but Japan might be worried about political problems with China and Korea. China especially has been critical of the size of Japan's military budget, and some Chinese have even compared Japan's military presence in Iraq to their military expansion of the Pre-WW2 period. Perhaps the Japanese government is worried that if it started raising an army to replace the American soldiers, they would have to deal with China or Korea claiming that they were planning some sort of military aggression?

 

[Brooker]

The Japanese do not fear China (although perhaps they should)

Good post. Just a few points to add...
It seems the Japanese fear MOST of their neighbors, mostly North Korea and therefore want U.S. protection.

The shame is that without US forces on Japanese soil, the avearge US citizens are less likely to see Japan, the people there, and the interchange of culture and ideas will decrease.

Well, the military leaving might mean a lot less military type personnel won't get to see Japan, but, as one who's lived in Japan myself, there are a lot of Westerners in Japan experiencing the country and I think the close connection between Japan and the U.S. would continue even without a U.S. military presence in Japan.

However, as I said earlier in this thread, I really don't think Japan wants U.S. forces to leave.

 

[Windy]

I'm with MWThomas.

American Forces have been here too long, mostly idle/raping schoolgirls. It's high time they were used to occupy Japan.

 

[Shooter452]

Well, the military leaving might mean a lot less military type personnel won't get to see Japan, but, as one who's lived in Japan myself, there are a lot of Westerners in Japan experiencing the country and I think the close connection between Japan and the U.S. would continue even without a U.S. military presence in Japan.

I suppose that is a matter of how you define "a lot."

Your opinion has the advantage of being from another, and completely different, point-of-view, Brooker. I am in no position to dispute how many Westerners live in Japan, but I knew factually how much it cost to travel and live there when I was there. I also know that the Japanese government is very careful when it comes to issuing work visas. As a tourist, spending greenbacks, you are kinda welcome, but you aren't gonna be staying and living there without special considerations being present. And the average blue-coller lunch pail kids will never, never be able to afford to even travel to Japan by commercial means, except as a tour of duty in the armed forces being stationed there.

I am sure that those Westerners with skills desired by Japan will be welcomed to remain for extended stays. I am also certain that those with hefty AmEx and VISA Platinum cards can arrange to remain there for more than a few weeks, but I do not think that I agree that most US citizens, those without fat trust funds, will find it easy to even get there, let alone stay.

The armed forces have traditionally allowed lower middle class kids the advantage of foreign travel. Without bases in Japan, these US citizens would probably never go there at all.

It all depends on your background and your bank account, Brooker. If you can afford it, you can jet-set to Tokyo. If not, you take your vacation time in Atlantic City and consider yourself fortunate to be there. It is only a matter of money.

But, like I said, yours could be a completely different point of view. I am not sure I know really enough to dispute it. *shrug*

 

[DoctorP]

I'm with MWThomas.

American Forces have been here too long, mostly idle/raping schoolgirls. It's high time they were used to occupy Japan.

Not trying to start a fight here, but just as many pretty young Japanese women have latched onto young American service members just for a free ride to the states, only to get a divorce and reap the benifits of being a resident alien much faster than usual! (not all marriages end this way mind you, but I have seen my fair share!)

 

[Brooker]

Shooter wrote...

I also know that the Japanese government is very careful when it comes to issuing work visas. As a tourist, spending greenbacks, you are kinda welcome, but you aren't gonna be staying and living there without special considerations being present. And the average blue-coller lunch pail kids will never, never be able to afford to even travel to Japan by commercial means, except as a tour of duty in the armed forces being stationed there.

Actually as a native English speaker it's quite easy to live in Japan very comfortably. If you have a college degree in any subject (which I know might eliminate some people right there, but still many would qualify) you can easily get a job and a work visa and collect a very nice income allowing you to live like a king while you're there (that's what I did). The only tricky part is saving up enough dough to get there. But I took a job on a cruise boat so I could pay off some bills and buy a plane ticket. Once I got there, I was taken care of.

 

[Shooter452]

Shooter wrote...
If you have a college degree in any subject (which I know might eliminate some people right there, but still many would qualify) you can easily get a job and a work visa and collect a very nice income allowing you to live like a king while you're there (that's what I did).

Some? According to the US Census Bureau, nearly 30% of the US population have a batchelor's degree or greater accomplishment at academic achievement. And that is a high number, never before achieved in this country. While that does figure out to be a somewhat large number of folks, it is only a slice of the population at large. (Check it out for yourself: http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/nnn/releases/archives/education/000818.html)

Take a look at the Census Report's description of median income, Brooker. Compare that to your own yearly compensation and that of your father (and mother, if she worked when you were a child). Be sure to make the adjustments for inflation, and figure back to when the occupation of Japan started. Foreign travel has always been beyond the means of most Americans, and they are from the most affluent country in the world. Only the privilaged few scions of the upper-middle and wealthy classes of the USA have traditionally had the advantage of foreign travel. Except when they are in uniform. My point, remember?

Yes, there have always been a few of us who have scraped together enough "car fare" to get to Europe or Japan with the intent of using the Hitchhikiers Guide across the land and panhandling for coffee and croissants in the morning. I think that the Japanese are less tolerant of such activities, but I suppose that it is possible to still '"low ball" your travel expenses even there.

But we are talking about staying in Japan as an alien resident. There, the Japanese tend to be somewhat cautious. Just having a BA in social work does not insure one a work visa. Your field must be one that the Japanese economy finds useful, was my original contention. Obviously, they find you useful enough to allow you to stay. Dozo. We still come back to the fly in the buttermilk, bro...seventy percent of Americans do not even have a BA or BS to weigh-in with.

So it still comes back to my first statement in dispute: it all depends on how you define "a lot." No offense meant. I am not trying to tie your panties in a bunch about this, but I think that you over-estimate, sir.

PS: check out the "Visa Question" thread. Another POV.

 

[Brooker]

Shooter wrote...

Just having a BA in social work does not insure one a work visa. Your field must be one that the Japanese economy finds useful, was my original contention.

Brooker wrote...

If you have a college degree in any subject you can easily get a job and a work visa and collect a very nice income allowing you to live like a king while you're there

Shooter also wrote...

So it still comes back to my first statement in dispute: it all depends on how you define "a lot." No offense meant. I am not trying to tie your panties in a bunch about this, but I think that you over-estimate, sir.

No, I didn't define the exact value of "a lot," but I sure saw A LOT of other foreigners when I was in Japan and they came from all different backgrounds. I see your point about a less broad range of people being able to experience Japan if the military leaves, and that may be a shame, but is that really a valid reason in favor of a military occupying a country?

 

[Shooter452]

Brooker wrote:

No, I didn't define the exact value of "a lot," but I sure saw A LOT of other foreigners when I was in Japan and they came from all different backgrounds. I see your point about a less broad range of people being able to experience Japan if the military leaves, and that may be a shame, but is that really a valid reason in favor of a military occupying a country?

Shooter responds:

No, it is not. Nor would I advocate keeping very expensive military bases on foreign soil just to give travel opportunities to the lower middle class. I was just pointing out a desireable by-product of that occupation.

You should know that the Second World War in the Pacific was a racial war. It was a war of unreasoning hatred and of incredible brutality on both sides. One of the bridges to understanding that salved those hatreds on--both sides--was that very occupation.

In 1945, a majority of Americans would have advocated expunging Japan. Surveys taken of Americans at the time advocated dropping more nuclear weapons on Japan. They--like the Japanese themselves--did not know that there were no more to use, but the fact that they would have comfortably advocated their use illustrates how bitter the feelings were about Japan. There are still people alive today who still hate the Japanese, but they are few because so many more understand something about them now.

I agree wholeheartedly that the bases should be closed, as you know from reading completely and thoroughly all of my previous posts, so I know that the question was strictly rhetorical. *knowing wink*

 

[Blue Tiger]

America Should Get Out of Japan, Now!!!

First, I will say that Japan brought its problems on itself, when it bombed Pearl Harbor. Also, Japan had no business invading China, Okinawa, the Philippines, and the numerous other countries. Also, Japan was guilty of attrocities toward civilians and prisoners of war.

As much as some of you irrationally hate America, America saved Japan from a real hell--being taken over by the former Soviet Union! Plus, unlike any other war victor in all of history--America gave you your country back. Plus, America gave you billions of dollars in aid to develop into a major economic power, modernizing your infrastructure, such that--in many ways, such as in the steel industry--it surpassed the U.S.

Now, it is a new century in a new millenium. It is time for the U.S. military to pull out of Japan and South Korea, where they are hated by the people. It is time for free Asian countries to determine their own futures and directions. It is time for free Asian countries to deal with the very real menace of China, together and to form their own alliances.

I am a left-wing liberal, and George W. Bush is not my president. That fool is NOT my leader! Finally, the American people--according to the latest polls--are awakening to what I knew when the first Bush was president. HE AND HIS CRIMINAL GANG CAN'T BE TRUSTED!

My wife is from Taiwan, and I fear for her family. I fear that Bush and his global corporate (that Japanese corporations) will secretly sell the free independent nation of Taiwan to Communist China, and that the communists will execute millions of Taiwanese as a lesson to those in China who desire freedom and human rights.

Global corporations cannot be trusted to protect their citizens. Being global means that they are loyal only to profits. Whether American, Japanese, British, or German, the corporate leaders have no alligences to people or to countries. The power elite can choose where to live. But, whether they are eaten by bigger predators...that is outside of our lowly influence.

The U.S. should get the hell out of Japan and South Korea. The American people's standard of living is rapidly declining. We can no longer afford a military to protect others. Japan and Germany has had the great luxury of America's protection, being able to invest in a profitable infrastructure, in the development of factories at America's expense.

Japan has long surpassed America in quality automobiles, consumer electronics, cameras, etc. Japan has gone from copying to innovating. Those are achievements that are evidence that Japan can easily surpass China militarily. And make no mistake about it, China's goal is to destroy both Japan and Taiwan! And America!

If you haven't noticed, in China's media, the anti-Japan jingoism and stirring its people to a war fever-pitch against China, with the daily demands for apologies for WWII attrocities, then you are hopelessly naive and dead to reality.

As I have emphasized: Japan cannot count on America, not on this administration for protection. Japan has to aggressively take on its own protection or face being secretly sold to China!

 

[RockLee]

Wow, almost sounds like a SF-novel.:souka:
Aren't those wild speculations :? Maybe too wild.

 

[Blue Tiger]

There are times that reality is stranger than fiction. It is all too true that China of pouring far more money into developing its military--a truly offensive military--than any other country, including the U.S.

Not long ago, General Zhu of China threatened a massive launch of nuclear missles on the U.S., if the U.S. interferes WHEN China attacks Taiwan. The general's remarks were not a slip of the tongue, nor was it not without prior knowledge by the civilian leadership.

In China, the military takes all final presidence in policy.

And that piece of crap, George W. Bush, is on his way to China, as a part of his Asian tour to get away from the heat he is taking at home!

 

[ArmandV]

I am a left-wing liberal, and George W. Bush is not my president. That fool is NOT my leader! Finally, the American people--according to the latest polls--are awakening to what I knew when the first Bush was president. HE AND HIS CRIMINAL GANG CAN'T BE TRUSTED!

The above paragraph explains it all. Sorry, Charlie, foreign policy can't be run by opinion polls. Do you think swell guys like Kim Chung "Mentally" Il of North Korea wouldn't try to take advantage of the vacuum left by a U.S. withdrawl? Somebody's living in a dream world.

 

[lexico]

Whether Bush's US or some other's, war means business, and more export of US produced goods contributing to US GDP figures. Wouldn't that be worth a little bit of blood spilt overseas wherever so long as US casualties are minimal in comparison ?

Taiwan, as a hot spot, will remain intact for the risks of losing trust are too high.
Japan should not have touched it in 1874 and 1895.
Look what a big mess; but does Japan care to offer aid in a peaceful compromise between the divided people of mainland and the Taiwanese ?
What about the other minorities that were subjected to discrimination and genocidal policies of Imperial Japan ? Before Japan can appeal for pity, should it not act in accordance to the idea of mutual respect and reparing it wrongs like a responsible body of civilised people ?

Japan's 1874 Expedition to Taiwan ROBERT ESKILDSEN
In search of a lost cultural treasure Part 1 Kenny Ehman

 

[ArmandV]

Whether Bush's US or some other's, war means business, and more export of US produced goods contributing to US GDP figures. Wouldn't that be worth a little bit of blood spilt overseas wherever so long as US casualties are minimal in comparison ?

You think that's the reason for war? What a ridiculous statement!