Tough Translation : Japanese taken hostage in Iraq.

[PaulTB]

Headline: 日本人人質「反日的分子」 参院決算委で柏村武昭議員

Article: headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20040426-00000217-kyodo-pol

Nice bloke there

As far as I can tell he's saying that it appears that among those who were taken hostage there are those who were opposed to dispatching Japan's 'self-defence' troops to Iraq and that if so, even as fellow Japanese, he's very upset about the amount of money spent in aid of 'Anti-Japanese elements'.

(Frankly the 'anti-Japanese elements' bit makes him sound like some of the right-wing US nuts. Apologies to those who are US, right-wing but not nuts who may be reading this forum. )

 

[akihabara]

Dispatching Japan's 'self-defence' troops to Iraq itself costs millions.
The next thing he comes out with might be "The Japan government is anti-Japan".

 

[PaulTB]

Dispatching Japan's 'self-defence' troups to Iraq itself costs millions.
The next thing he comes out with might be "The Japan government is anti-Japan".

I take it there isn't much tradition of "The loyal opposition." in Japan?

The theory is laid out here ...
http://members.lycos.co.uk/grinner/opposition.htm
(although it isn't followed very well in practise).

 

[NANGI]

Konnichiwa PaulTB-san!

In Japan, the "Nation" is the "Government" but not "people".

NANGI

 

[Elizabeth]

I didn't get to the Yahoo one in time, and it's probably just a wire story anyway, but for anyone interested in Sankei, official Japanese paper for right wing nuts....Of course it is completely illogical given that the foreign presence and money being spent in Iraq, perhaps some of it to the direct benefit of the insurgency & truly anti Japanese elements, is what is provoked their being taken hostage to begin with.

sankei.co.jp/news/040426/sei099.htm

 

[akihabara]

"The loyal oppostion", I had not been able to come up with any words well translated into Japanese. But when I came to the office in the morning, I got it. That's us! loyal to our company and oppose each other.

 

[PaulTB]

I didn't get to the Yahoo one in time [...]
sankei.co.jp/news/040426/sei099.htm

Actually your link is practically word-for-word except it doesn't have the aside about Chinese 'justice' (what was that in aid of I wonder?). :?

 

[Elizabeth]

Actually your link is practically word-for-word except it doesn't have the aside about Chinese 'justice' (what was that in aid of I wonder?). :?

I get his general thrust as You're either with us or against us....

 

[Elizabeth]

"The loyal opposition", I had not been able to come up with any words well translated into Japanese.

日本語でどういいますか？ I didn't immediately come up with a good phrase.....良いフラーズがすぐに思いつきませんでした。?

 

[PaulTB]

日本語でどういいますか？ I didn't immediately come up with a good phrase.....良いフラーズがすぐに思いつきませんでした。?

Well a phrase is easy enough to come up with - but I doubt that it would actually mean what I want it to mean.

「忠実な反対側」...はダメでしょう。＾＾ｖ

The meaning being that although (people / parties) are opposed to the government party's policy they respect the position of authority of the government under law and in turn are respected by the government as having the best intentions for the country. <- man that's a horribly long sentence. ^^;

It may have been observed, in theory, in the UK but the practise is usually different. I don't know if the concept even registers in the US

 

[Elizabeth]

Well a phrase is easy enough to come up with - but I doubt that it would actually mean what I want it to mean.

「忠実な反対側」...はダメでしょう。＾＾ｖ

The meaning being that although (people / parties) are opposed to the government party's policy they respect the position of authority of the government under law and in turn are respected by the government as having the best intentions for the country. <- man that's a horribly long sentence. ^^;

It may have been observed, in theory, in the UK but the practise is usually different. I don't know if the concept even registers in the US

I understand the idea of loyal opposition, we have it as a strong tradition even here in the US, I was actually wondering more about the direct translation of Akihabara's sentence.
"The loyal opposition", I had not been able to come up with any words well translated into Japanese.

But piecing ours together, I think I got it now

 

[PaulTB]

I understand the idea of loyal opposition

I'm not sure that Akihabara did though so I 'borrowed' your post for that explantation.

I was actually wondering more about the direct translation of Akihabara's sentence.

Ah! I thought you were commenting on your (also) not being able to
translate 'loyal opposition' into Japanese. ^^;

 

[akihabara]

I don't think I can find Japanese words or phrases which refer to the idea of loyal opposition briefly. This proves the idea is new to us, although I understand well.

 

[playaa]

What is a Loyal Opposition?

 

[PaulTB]

What is a Loyal Opposition?

I gave a handy link in my previous post which covers much of it.

'+'

The 'Loyal Opposition'

All sides in a democracy share a common commitment to basic values and principles. Political competitors don't necessarily have to like each other, but they must tolerate one another and acknowledge that each has a legitimate and important role to play. Moreover, the ground rules of the society must encourage tolerance and civility in public debate.


When the election is over, the losers accept the judgment of the voters. If the incumbent party loses, it turns over power peacefully. No matter who wins, both sides agree to cooperate in solving the common problems of the society. The losers, now in the political opposition, know that they will not lose their lives or go to jail. On the contrary, the opposition, whether it consists of one party or many, can continue to participate in public life with the knowledge that its role is essential in any democracy worthy of the name. They are loyal not to the specific policies of the government, but to the fundamental legitimacy of the state and to the democratic process itself.

As the next election comes around, opposition parties will again have the opportunity to compete for power. In addition, a pluralistic society, one in which the reach of government is limited, tends to offer election losers alternatives for public service outside government. Those defeated at the polls may choose to continue as a formal opposition party, but they may also decide to participate in the wider political process and debate through writing, teaching, or joining one of many private organizations concerned with public policy issues. Democratic elections, after all, are not a fight for survival but a competition to serve.

 

[playaa]

Yeah I saw the link after I posted..