The truth about what japan did in China during WWII

[romelden]

Truth of Japan History did in China

We are not against Japanese, but only hope Japan can face the truth of History. And prevent this (nanjing massacre) happan again in any place of world.

 

[jeisan]

romelden, we know we've all seen the pictures for many many others like yourself, spamming the forum.
if you wish to have a discussion about this topic you may but dont go spamming and plastering pictures all over the place, else you will be in violation of forum rules and appropriate measures will be taken.

thank you

 

[romelden]

Why you (Webmaster) cut all the picture? How to show you want to FACE the history by covering the truth?

SHAME ON YOU!

 

[romelden]

romelden, we know we've all seen the pictures for many many others like yourself, spamming the forum.
if you wish to have a discussion about this topic you may but dont go spamming and plastering pictures all over the place, else you will be in violation of forum rules and appropriate measures will be taken.

thank you

Don't be blame on me like this, you say this is spam, and it is only a very little part of the history. I found you are in USA but I don't know if you are a Japanese. But It is showing the Japanese who are still provoking China. And also show all over the world the truth. Not just as Japanese said.

 

[jeisan]

why you (romeldon) dont read my above post? How to show you want to be SERIOUS by covering the forum with spam?

SHAME ON YOU!

 

[Eisuke]

First of all the People's Republic of China should stop occupying other ethnic groups lands: Tibetans (Tibet) Free Tibet |, the Mongols (Inner-Mongolia) www.innermongolia.org and the Uygurs (East Turkestan aka Xinjiang) http://www.uygur.org and give them the right of self determination. The one party regime should also be democratic, respect human rights and stop bullying other countries like Taiwan. Until the PRC does that the members of the Chinese Communist Party won't get any respect from me.

 

[梁铠赞]

release the Ryukyu....^^

 

[Eisuke]

release the Ryukyu....^^

The Okinawans mainly live in Okinawa islands, a prefecture of Japan. They are now socially well integrated into the main stream of Japanese society, maintaining their distinct cultural traits just like other local people in this country. Apart from the contemporary special social situation in Okinawa, where more than seventy percent of the American military bases in Japan concentrate, there seems to be no specific dissatisfaction on the part of the Okinawans. No opinion survey on sensitive ethnic feelings is available, but as far as we know, they are more satisfied with the present everyday life than the Japanese people in general, according to the opinion surveys carried out by the Cabinet Office. Satoru Nakasone, the former secretary general of Fukkikyo (Okinawa Repatriation Movement) on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of Okinawa's return to Japan made the following comment; 窶 I feel greatly relieved to see 87% of the Okinawan people said that it was a right choice that Okinawa was returned to Japan in the opinion survey conducted on May 12. The 27 year Movement successfully got rid of Japanese colonialism in Okinawa (including prejudice, discrimination, and suppression), and our inferiority complex towards the Japanese people (Okinawa Times, May 15, 1997).

http://syass.kwansei.ac.jp/kiyou/93/93-ch09.pdf

 

[梁铠赞]

The Ryukyu Kingdom was once an independent kingdom occupying the island chain, from Yonaguni Island in the southwest to Amami Oshima in the north. In 1372, it obtained tributary status to the Chinese emperor. A 1609 expedition from Satsuma on Kyushu captured the kingdom. After that, the kings of the Ryukyus paid tribute to the Japanese shogun as well as the Chinese emperor.

In 1879, the Meiji government announced the annexation of the Ryukyus. China objected and the ex-President of the United States Ulysses S. Grant was asked to arbitrate. He decided that Japan's claim to the islands was stronger and ruled in Japan's favor.

Today, there are a host of problems arising from the Ryukyu's history. Some Ryukyuans and some Japanese feel that people from the Ryukyus are not "real" Japanese. Some natives of the Ryukyus claim that the central government is discriminating against the islanders by allowing so many American soldiers to be stationed on bases in Okinawa with a minimal presence on the mainland.

Ryukyu Islands - Wikipedia

 

[梁铠赞]

which country want to be occupied by others??

 

[Eisuke]

The Ryukyu Kingdom was once an independent kingdom occupying the island chain, from Yonaguni Island in the southwest to Amami Oshima in the north. In 1372, it obtained tributary status to the Chinese emperor. A 1609 expedition from Satsuma on Kyushu captured the kingdom. After that, the kings of the Ryukyus paid tribute to the Japanese shogun as well as the Chinese emperor.

In 1879, the Meiji government announced the annexation of the Ryukyus. China objected and the ex-President of the United States Ulysses S. Grant was asked to arbitrate. He decided that Japan's claim to the islands was stronger and ruled in Japan's favor.

Today, there are a host of problems arising from the Ryukyu's history. Some Ryukyuans and some Japanese feel that people from the Ryukyus are not "real" Japanese. Some natives of the Ryukyus claim that the central government is discriminating against the islanders by allowing so many American soldiers to be stationed on bases in Okinawa with a minimal presence on the mainland.

Ryukyu Islands - Wikipedia

87% of the Okinawan people said that it was a right choice that Okinawa was returned to Japan in the opinion survey conducted on May 12. This means that a big majority is in favor of being part of Japan, also many okinawans are already mixed with Japanese.

 

[Hiroshi66]

The Ryukyu Islands... this is a lot tougher than I thought it is to discuss... this is why I was suggesting on the other thread the restoration of the Okinawan monarchy in a figurehead position. It would help Ryukyuans understand their native culture better while not forgetting their Japanese one. But if its not the Japanese way then what can I do..

 

[shiroma]

愤青

We are not against Japanese, but only hope Japan can face the truth of History.

Amazing, this is the very first fﾃｨnqīng poster on JREF since Hﾃｺ Jǐntāo took over the government. Does it mean that Jiāng Zﾃｩmﾃｭn is still influencial in CCP?

 

[Hiroshi66]

I'm sure he controls or is vocal in a certain faction.

 

[梁铠赞]

The Ryukyu Islands... this is a lot tougher than I thought it is to discuss... this is why I was suggesting on the other thread the restoration of the Okinawan monarchy in a figurehead position. It would help Ryukyuans understand their native culture better while not forgetting their Japanese one. But if its not the Japanese way then what can I do..

赞ﾂ青ｬ bcause...Okinawan or Ryukyuans need to understand their native culture better.....and I think the Ryukyuans also want their freedom too....

@Eisuke-san

I luv almost everything Japanese...in da store I prefer Japan product rather than korea...from when I was small my parents always taught me how bad Japanese is....they told me not to hate them....but they taught me not ever to forget the history of their cruelness towards Indonesian, Chinese,etc...bcause when they do the same mistake...we can remind them...^^

 

[alexriversan]

First of all the People's Republic of China should stop occupying other ethnic groups lands: Tibetans (Tibet) Free Tibet |, the Mongols (Inner-Mongolia) www.innermongolia.org and the Uygurs (East Turkestan aka Xinjiang) http://www.uygur.org and give them the right of self determination. The one party regime should also be democratic, respect human rights and stop bullying other countries like Taiwan. Until the PRC does that the members of the Chinese Communist Party won't get any respect from me.

north america is getting resources from where? who came to south america and replaced the langugae? europe people are purchasing china's low labour products, visiting thailand etc.

meaning:europe/american goverment is not better. of course, democracy, see "the matrix", our propaganda system allows it to make such a movie, which contains critics on society. or if you have watched harry potter/P.O.A. it is actually a parody. i would prefer to life in china that to experience that (refers to harry potter storyboard).

and christianity is quite obligatory, freedom of religion is a statement on paper.

 

[Shibuyaexpat]

The Okinawans mainly live in Okinawa islands, a prefecture of Japan. They are now socially well integrated into the main stream of Japanese society, maintaining their distinct cultural traits just like other local people in this country. Apart from the contemporary special social situation in Okinawa, where more than seventy percent of the American military bases in Japan concentrate, there seems to be no specific dissatisfaction on the part of the Okinawans. No opinion survey on sensitive ethnic feelings is available, but as far as we know, they are more satisfied with the present everyday life than the Japanese people in general, according to the opinion surveys carried out by the Cabinet Office. Satoru Nakasone, the former secretary general of Fukkikyo (Okinawa Repatriation Movement) on the occasion of the 25th anniversary of Okinawa's return to Japan made the following comment; ﾂ・I feel greatly relieved to see 87% of the Okinawan people said that it was a right choice that Okinawa was returned to Japan in the opinion survey conducted on May 12. The 27 year Movement successfully got rid of Japanese colonialism in Okinawa (including prejudice, discrimination, and suppression), and our inferiority complex towards the Japanese people (Okinawa Times, May 15, 1997).

http://syass.kwansei.ac.jp/kiyou/93/93-ch09.pdf

The Ainu and the Okinawans were heavily subjugated into assimilation. Now, it doesn't make sense for them to be separate from Japan because of many generations of those people know no other identity. Of course they would prefer to be part of Japan.

The groups you mention with regards to the Chinese gov't obviously have a valid point because the occupation is relatively recent. I wonder how the Ainu (1457, then 1669, and finally 1789) and the Okinawans (1609) would feel to your argument.

footnote: Tibet (1945), Inner Mongolia (1991), East Turkestans (1949)

 

[梁铠赞]

Than why the world let it??? I wonder?? or maybe bcause it's Chinese land too?? I'm just curious...^^

 

[Hiroshi66]

Your footnotes are a bit off. Tibet - 1945? It was 1950, Xinjiang, 1951. Or are you in regards to something else?

 

[shiroma]

胡锦涛

Does it mean that Jiāng Zﾃｩmﾃｭn is still influencial in CCP?

I'm sure he controls or is vocal in a certain faction.

Chinese General Urges Army to Obey Communist Party

But military sources say Hu, who replaced Jiang as Communist Party chief in November 2002 and state president in March 2003, has yet to fully consolidate power in the 2.5-million-strong People's Liberation Army (PLA).

Loyalties are split between Hu and Jiang in the PLA, which plans to cut its numbers by 200,000 by the end of 2005.

Jiang, who promoted 79 men to full general rank during his 15 years in power, still wields some influence over the PLA.

 

[Dorian1977]

Hi everybody i like Japan and im interested in Japanese culture very much, as far as im concerned i think that during a war many bad things can happen thats the price that humanity has to pay everytime people go to war. As far as China concerned i think that Chinese people should forget the past and see the future, because i think that in their country there is not freedom of speech , and they still have the death penalty.

 

[lexico]

Welcome to the forum, Dorian 1977 !

Although what you say may be right, I wouldn't try too hard to shove it down the throat; they do have a legitimate complaint which has not been given proper attention.

May I ask what your background knowledge is in Chinese matters ?
It sounds like you haven't studied the subject much, but I could be wrong.

Nevertheless I hope you enjoy the forum !

 

[Dorian1977]

hi Lexico and thanks for your nice words, i live in Europe and in particular in Greece therefore i cant say that im an expert in Chinese matters, but from what i know China since Mao, has an undemocratic communistic regime and they still have the death penalty something that in my opinion is unacceptable for a modern country.
I also know that Mao killed many people in China especially those who belonged in different political parties. I dont know how you reached the conclusion that i have not studied Chinese matters, but i try to speak about what i know not about what i dont know.

 

[lexico]

Let's compare personal safety in an objective, scientific manner.

Hi, Dorian !

Thanks for responding. I understand what you are trying to say; according to Rummel (thanks Bossel !) who compared murder figures by regimes, Communist China ranks 2nd in total democide figures.

1st: Soviet Union (1917-1987) 61,911,000
2nd: CCP--China (1949-1987) 35,236,000
3rd: Nazi--Europe (1939-1945) 20,946,000
4th: GMD--China (1929-1949) 10,214,000
<table 1. Rummel's figures: total deaths>

Rummel's Imperial Japan statistic of "(1937-1945) 5,890,000" needs to be adjusted because the 2nd Sino-Japanese War began with the Manchuria Incident ﾅｸﾃ楪洲ﾅｽ窶督敕 of Sept. 18, 1931. That is why Wikipedia WWII Casualties lists Chinese civilian casualties at 15 mil instead of 6 mil. Hence Rummel's table can be modified;

1st: Soviet Union (1917-1987) 61,911,000
2nd: CCP--China (1949-1987) 35,236,000
3rd: Nazi--Europe (1939-1945) 20,946,000
4th: Imper. Japan (1931-1945) 15,000,000
5th: GMD--China (1929-1949) 10,214,000
<table 2. Rummel's figures with 2nd Sino-Japanese War period statistic adjusted>

In above tables China indeed appears only 2nd to the USSR in brutality. However, as Rummel analyses quite justly, total population and duration of regime need to be taken into account to make any comparison objective.

1st: Nazi--Europe 3,491,000
2nd: Imper. Japan 1,071,000
3rd: CCP--China..... 927,000
4th: Soviet Union.... 884,000
5th: GMD--China.... 510,000
<table 3. deaths per year>

1st: Imper. Japan. 2.48
2nd: Nazi--Europe 1.08
3rd: Soviet Union. 0.45
4th: GMD--China.. 0.29
5th: CCP--China.. 0.12
<table 4. deaths percentage annual (per year-per population 100)>

From table 4. we can see that it was safer to live in the People's Republic of China than living in the Republic of China (Taiwan), the USSR, Nazi Europe, and Imperial-Japan-controlled China or Occupied China.

Threfore your accusations regarding Mao Zedong (December 26, 1893 – September 9, 1976) loses ground. In fact, the safest regime to live under for reasons of personal safety that you are interested in would be mainland China out of the five regimes that are being compared.

abbreviations:
CCP=Chinese Communist Party 窶吮??ﾅ｡ﾂ?窶ｹﾂ､ﾅｽYﾃｪ}
PRC=the People's Republic of China 窶吮??窶ｰﾃ伉人窶督ｯ窶ｹﾂ､ﾋ彗ﾅ｡ﾂ?
GMD=Guo Min Dang ﾅ｡ﾂ?窶督ｯﾃｪ}=Nationalist Chinese Party
ROC=the Republic of China 窶吮??窶ｰﾃ倪?督ｯﾅ｡ﾂ?
Imper. Japan= Imperial Japan 窶愿ｺ窶怒窶凖ｩﾅ｡ﾂ?

Rummel's statistics quoted are borrowed from
Bossel's uploaded table in this post in "Did Imperial Japan kill more people than Germany ?".

 

[donpaulo]

I think that if someone wants to point the finger and look for blame its easy to find. Did Japan do terrible things in China during the war ? yes they did. Did the Chinese do terrible things during the war ? yes they did too.
The sooner people stop finger pointing others the better. This close minded approach is why germany and france fought 3 wars between 1870 and 1940. It only causes more problems.
What are the facts. One china has no freedom of speech. So for chinese people to express themselves its easy to point the finger at japan since the chinese government won't arrest you for bashing japan.
The Japanese government has done a terrible job of explaining to the rest of the world their past mistakes and how what they have done to correct it. The textbook issue is a classic example of this.
Who is to blame ? my answer is humans are to blame. Lets point the fingers at ourselves.