I disagree it's an error.You display the common error of conflating the Japanese language with the method employed to write the language.
I like to keep anonymous on the internet, but the character was 町 (chou vs machi)Please tell us the specific ward you are speaking of.
That example and ones like it. Not in the same vein as "tomaato" vs "tomaeto" as it goes beyond mere accent.How in hell do you arrive at the position that Japanese people can't speak Japanese "properly"
False binary as it is indeed a question of degree. English has been very effective at absorbing masses of foreign language without its speakers even knowing it. Few of them will know whether a word is old germanic origin or an original English creation, or french/latin/greek/indian (e.g. bungalow/khaki etc) origin. Can use both "best" and "optimum" flexibly etc. The only side effect has been clumsy spelling and conjugation rules.Have you ever considered the degree to which English butchers the pronunciation of borrowed words? It is hardly a phenomenon unique to the Japanese. If you know any Frenchmen you may tell them for me that they make a complete charade out of the way they pronounce croissant.
I want my turn!We already have many threads about that topic...
The character was in the ward name.Since when is "ward" 町?
It's a relief to know that such leeway in using different kanji forms exists.I think it's a safe bet that if you were somehow able to ask Japanese people who had just read the 謎 character five minutes prior whether the shin-nyou (shin-nyuu) component had one or two dots in it, they would be unable to tell you. It doesn't matter, as they are treated as the same.
That's terminology employed by a website i use for verifying whether a proper character set is installed by an application or a website. Take a look: 「溢」の書き方 - 漢字の正しい書き順(筆順)Finally, I am a little curious about your use of the term 改正前. I have never seen this term applied to kanji, and am wondering if you saw it used elsewhere, or if it is your own ad hoc usage. If I were to use that term to describe the 謎 character, if anything, I would say that the 改正前 form is the one with 17 strokes, not the other way around.
As for your assumption that a "revised" kanji is ought to lose some strokes not gain extra strokes - i agree that it would make more sense, but seems that's not always the case.
And then again 謎 is not listed, leading to a guess that there are many more examples.
Thanks for sending the links. Now I can see what is going on. The terms 改正前 and 改正後 are not global terms applied to kanji in general, but rather are being used here in a very specific role: they are used to denote revisions that were made to the JIS X 0213 character standard in 2004 in terms of what form is used for the standard example representation of a character. I'm not sure, but I think that the changes made in 2004 were done to achieve greater consistency among the CJK character sets.That's terminology employed by a website i use for verifying whether a proper character set is installed by an application or a website.
I honestly WISH I liked Kanji, because of the beautiful drawings (actually it stimulated me to draw randomly sometimes, a hobby I stopped doing for MAAANY years, which is EXCELLENT to do it again), I really love them but Idk, the fact it was borrowed from another language, and mainly the pronunciations changed DRASTICALLY from the original foreign one. And worse, some Kanjis have more than 1 pronunciation (Im in begginer level btw, maybe 1 day I happen to like it better, I hope so kind of), so it just seems all too random, like either create a whole new writting system (since the Kanas were created), or use the Chinese dialetic, but it mixed new writting systems WITH a foreign one, and pronunciations change drastically from original, and without patterns either??!! It just seems too random, hard time getting used to thisHello all!!
Today I started practicing my Kanji again. I have finished the Japanese elementary school here in Holland many moons ago, but since then I've never really come to using it a lot and as a result my Kanji proficiency has worsened considerably..
So I went to the JLPT Kanji Project site(GREAT site!!), and started at level 4. I still pretty much knew all the Kanji of that level (thank God!), but still found some interesting things I had totally forgotten about, like the subtle differences between 牛 (うし=cow) and 午 (うま=horse) and between 辛い(つらい=hard, bitter) and 幸い(さいわい=fortunately).
Also, I started making up easy ways to remember the Kanji, like I always did as a kid. For example, the Kanji 親(おや=Parent) can easily be memorized as 「木の上に立って見る」 (Standing on a tree and looking), the Kanji in blue making up the particles of the whole Kanji. I found a new one today for 辞書(じしょ=Dictionary), or at least for 辞: "because your tongue (舌) has a hard time (辛), you have to use the dictionary". I think it is a wonderful and funny way to learn Kanji, and the fact that Kanji's are many times made up of particles, each with separate meanings, is amazing I think.
I did use the "search thread" option before starting this thread (keyword="kanji"), but only found topics such as "Should Kanji be abolished?", "Kanji are driving me insane" and a lot of "Help me with.."-threads.. I didn't find one thread about the beauty of Kanji (I went all the way back to 2004), and I think that should be changed!!
So ladies and gentlemen!! What are your -positive- thoughts on Kanji? Are you as fascinated as I am? Have you encountered anything funny? Maybe interesting differences with the Chinese language? Are you also using funny ways to memorize them? What is your favorite Kanji? Is there anything else you like about Kanji?
Of the Kanji I studied today, I found 一緒(いっしょ=together) to be an interesting combo.. 「一つの糸によってつながれる者」, which roughly translates to: "those people that are connected by one thread".. Man, it's so beautifully poetic it makes me cry!!
I'm interested in hearing your opinion on this.. Although I meant this to be a "positive" thread, constructive criticism is always we come, there's always room for friendly discussions!! So start posting!!
or use the Chinese dialetic,
So many beginning learners say this. I mean, I get it, there are a lot of characters, a lot of readings, and it's intimidating.It just seems too random, hard time getting used to this
Or do what I did and just give up. I don't have meaningful kanji proficiency but somehow I am able to get by with the help of computers and Internet. I do wish I had somehow retained more but it's too late now.The sooner you can get over this mental block that Japanese (including kanji) is some weird alien language that's "beautiful" but impossible to understand, the better chance you'll have of getting past the beginner level and actually developing meaningful proficiency.
But I still wanna learn Japanese,
Hiragana and Katakana I'm relatively skilled at this point, I mistake them a few times thoughHere is a video of all hiragana being written in the proper stroke orders. Watch the video. Stop the video after each hiragana and practice writing it on a piece of paper.
Watch the video many, many times. Get to the point where you can write each hiragana when they its name, before seeing the stroke-orders on the screen.
But Im learning in slow pace reallyReeeally few, like the top basics really, like Nihongo (and Japan), Watashi, day (and days), few more, and I often forget actually
But Im learning in slow pace really
YES, the radicals are cool to learn origin and easier to memorize日本語 Class,
I thought it might be fun for you to learn the origins of some simple kanji:
You said you know the kanji for "day" or "sun" (にち) (日)
You may also know the kanji for "tree" (き) (木).
We can now look at the origin of the kanji for "east" (ひがし) (東). Take a look at 東 and you will see a tree superimposed over a sun. This is a picture of the sun rising behind a tree. The sun rises in the east, so this is a picture of a sun rising behind an eastern tree, thus symbolizing the idea of "east".
(Btw I hadnt realized day and Sun had the same Kanji)