Should Japan Receive Sakhalin Island?

[inkink]

Sorry to jump in here, but since this concerns China & Japan.

A China-Japan reconciliation is actually not that far-fetched. In fact a good China-Japan relation is a very recent memory.

For most Chinese in the 70's (when Japan was still considered an enemy by many Americans including one of my friend who's from a US Naval family), 80's (the period when many Hollywood movies depicted Japan with similar paranoia it paints China with today) and much of 90's, Japan was a good friend. We deeply and sincerely believed most Japanese, like most Chinese, were victims of a few Japanese fascists during WWII.

Many of us Chinese grew up watching Atomic boy and most of our parents have cried while watching the NHK series Oshin (阿信). In fact Oshin was so popular that it's currently being re-run. 真由美 and 高仓健 were synonymous with beautiful and handsome to many for over a decade. In college everybody was reading 村上春树 and 川端康成. My roommates were all obsessed with 黑泽明， 德川家康，一文字秀虎 ( the last one, of course, is not a real person ). And I still remember the un-conveyable impact on my being when I first read the words: 古池，蛙飞，水音。

The bilateral relationship, in my memory, started having trouble in the late 90's but deteriorated sharply and quickly. But, I am optimistic about the prospect that Chinese and Japanese can work out the kinks and fix the problems together.

Just my 2 cents. Sorry for the trolling..

.......
For such a smart guy, this comment shows an enormous lack of understanding about Japan and China in the modern political arena. Getting Japan and China to reconcile would be like having Southerners forgive Northerners for winning the U.S. Civil War....

 

[inkink]

.... I don't see why Russia needs to hold onto it. On the other hand, I don't see why Japan needs it. As I said before, northern Hokkaido is already a cultural hinterland. I think it is more a matter of pride. The island is strategically and economically worthless, unless someone finds trillions of dollars worth of oil beneath it, which I doubt. It is not much of an asset. Therefore, it must be a pride issue. Therefore, I believe it is something either Japan or Russia (or both) should decide to concede on. Basically, either they should compromise, or one country should "be the bigger man".

Here's what wikipedia has to say:

Sakhalin has experienced an oil boom with extensive petroleum exploration and mining by most large oil multinationals. The oil and natural gas reserves contain an estimated 14 billion barrels (2.2 km³) of oil and 96 trillion cubic feet (2,700 km³) of gas.

In 1996, two large consortiums signed contracts to explore for oil and gas off the northeast coast of the island, Sakhalin-I and Sakhalin-II. The two consortiums are estimated to spend a combined $21 billion U.S. dollars on the two projects.

Sakhalin's economy is growing rapidly thanks to its oil and gas industry. By 2005, the island had become the largest recipient of foreign investment in Russia, followed by Moscow. Unemployment in 2002 was only 2%.

Considering Kremlin bases much of its global role on "energy security", this must be part of the reason why Russia will hold on to Sakhalin. With the current trend of investment, infrastructure construction and oil production, I doubt there's any realistic prospect for Japan's claim.

 

[MajideSaiaku]

We forget one vital point.

Japan doesnt what Sakhalin.

Japan wants "its" end of the kuriles, I've never actually read or heard anywhere Japan making active claims over Sakhalin.

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

Here's what wikipedia has to say....

Well, I'll be damned! Wow. Well, I just got schooled.

A China-Japan reconciliation is actually not that far-fetched. In fact a good China-Japan relation is a very recent memory.

This is stuff I have had yet to hear! There are times when I enjoy being proven wrong. I was always under the impression that reconciliation was a long way off, but I feel more positive learning that is not the case.

Just a minor point here, but the treaty to cede the islands was made to the USSR, a country that no longer exists, not to Russia. The USSR effectively ceased in 1991. So unless a new deal has been drawn up, the old one is null and void.

The federation of independent states that sprang up in the wake of the Soviet Union's disintegration is (or was, during the '90s) a league of nations economically interdependent (due to Soviet zoning programs) but also politically sovereign. The sum of the states occupy the total land mass of the old Soviet Union. Therefore, all of the territory that they occupy, they rightfully inherited from the Soviet Union.

I'll give you an example... Let's assume the United States breaks apart into a dozen smaller confederacies. Does that mean that every state from the Mississippi River west to the Pacific should revert to Mexico? No, it doesn't.

You bring up a very interesting point, though. However, I disagree that the previous treaty has expired with the Soviets.

 

[Mycernius]

The federation of independent states that sprang up in the wake of the Soviet Union's disintegration is (or was, during the '90s) a league of nations economically interdependent (due to Soviet zoning programs) but also politically sovereign. The sum of the states occupy the total land mass of the old Soviet Union. Therefore, all of the territory that they occupy, they rightfully inherited from the Soviet Union.
I'll give you an example... Let's assume the United States breaks apart into a dozen smaller confederacies. Does that mean that every state from the Mississippi River west to the Pacific should revert to Mexico? No, it doesn't.
You bring up a very interesting point, though. However, I disagree that the previous treaty has expired with the Soviets.

I'm not saying the land reveerts back to its original owner. After all if that happened everytime a country or empire split or vanished, no-one would own anything. The point is that the old treaty was made to the USSR. In order to keep the old treaty alive surely a new one would need to be drawn up. This time it might be better, probably taking in account the actual feeling of the people on these islands.
The old one was drawn up in the face of the cold war and with the US really guiding Japanese politics at the time. They were an occupying force getting the country up and running after a war. The last thing the US would really want is either another war or communist influence spreading. It was a risk at the time. China was communist and communist forces were at work in Vietnam and Korea and we know what they both lead to.

 

[GodEmperorLeto]

I'm not saying the land reveerts back to its original owner. After all if that happened everytime a country or empire split or vanished, no-one would own anything. The point is that the old treaty was made to the USSR. In order to keep the old treaty alive surely a new one would need to be drawn up.

And I'm saying it doesn't. The Russian Federation inherited the terms of the treaty, including Sakhalin Island. There is no need for a new treaty, the original one is still valid. It might be nice if they had a new treaty. But there is no requirement for one.

 

[red522fu]

Sahkalin island is belongs to china!

Sahkalin island is belongs to china!

 

[hogdriver]

I think Japan needs the added space more than Russia for it overpopulated people.

And Russia really needs Japan's economic tutelage right now to straighten out their economic flaws..I say they need to trade and help one another out.

Japan really needs more land and resources for it's seriously overcrowded people, and Russia really needs JAPAN'S PROVEN economic knowhow....

Work the **** out guys..and you both will benefit greatly..that is what trade is all about guys.

 

[grapefruit]

I think Japan needs the added space more than Russia for it overpopulated people.
And Russia really needs Japan's economic tutelage right now to straighten out their economic flaws..I say they need to trade and help one another out.
Japan really needs more land and resources for it's seriously overcrowded people, and Russia really needs jAPAN'S PROVEN knowhow....
Work the **** out guys..and you both will benefit greatly..that is what trade is all about guys.

Japan is not overpopulated. Isolated, remote places in Japan are currently suffering from decrease in population. Acquiring Sahkalin Island does little to improve the overcrowdedness of major metropolitan areas in Japan.

 

[hogdriver]

Japan is not overpopulated. Isolated, remote places in Japan are currently suffering from decrease in population. Acquiring Sahkalin Island does little to improve the overcrowdedness of major metropolitan areas in Japan.

Perhaps, but if space and land is not needed, then why all the plans for the future huge super-skyscraper cities?

Ya'll bored?

 

[grapefruit]

Perhaps, but if space and land is not needed, then why all the plans for the future huge super-skyscraper cities?
Ya'll bored?

Space and land are not needed at remote places. They are much demand around big cities like Tokyo and Osaka, so the major cities have to go vertically higher. It is the same everywhere in the world.

 

[hogdriver]

Space and land are not needed at remote places. They are much demand around big cities like Tokyo and Osaka, so the major cities have to go vertically higher. It is the same everywhere in the world.

You live here, you know our cities grow by spreading out and invading our suburbs.

They don't expand upwards.

And the scale is unprecedented.

Why deny?

 

[grapefruit]

You live here, you know our cities grow by spreading out and invading our suburbs.
They don't expand upwards.
And the scale is unprecedented.
Why deny?

Is this relevant to the discussion of this thread? It's useless to argue about how big cities grow, when all we are talking about is Sahkalin island, miles away from major cities. Your argument is much like claiming the land surrounding the Grand Canyon when San Francisco needs land to expand.

 

[hogdriver]

Is this relevant to the discussion of this thread? It's useless to argue about how big cities grow, when all we are talking about is Sahkalin island, miles away from major cities. Your argument is much like claiming the land surrounding the Grand Canyon when San Francisco needs land to expand.

You took us off topic, don't put that on me please.

Don't start (or try to fool) crap with a finisher/closer.

Such is not wise, nor productive for either of us.

HD

 

[grapefruit]

You took us off topic, don't put that on me please.

Don't start (or try to fool) crap with a finisher/closer.

Such is not wise, nor productive for either of us.

Yeah right. The below is what you said.

Perhaps, but if space and land is not needed, then why all the plans for the future huge super-skyscraper cities?
Ya'll bored?

 

[hogdriver]

Yeah right. The below is what you said.

Oops. Sorry bro. very most apologies.

Must have been this new cheap beer I been tryin out talkin.

Won't happen again.

Still friends?


HD

 

[A ke bono kane kotto]

Historically it is neither Japanese nor Russian, like most of Siberia. Russia was built as an empire. Historic Russia is only the European part. The Asian territory is an addition of the 17th and 18th century, just like other European powers' colonial empires.

No modern country has any rightful historical claim on Sakhalin. Japan and Russia are the closest, but China could just as well claim it as it did belong to them first (for a short period in the 15th century).

Sakhalin being ethnically Ainu, one could claim that it is more Japanese. But so are so part of continental Russia beyond Sakhalin then. Where to stop ? Japan could just as well claim Tibet. How preposterous is that ?

Ultimately the ideal solution would be to ask the locals. They probably don't care much as they are used to speaking Russian now and don't feel a strong tie to Japan. Japan is richer, but the Ainu in Japan are a segregated and discriminated minority. They are ****** either way.

 

[Adulado]

Korean maybe, since originally tribes living there are ethnically more closer to Koreans and also is land of origin of Korean people.

Update: sorry, i thought the issue was about Siberia not Sakhalin.

 

[KIERSTEN WOODS]

Beautiful sakhalin island should be shared!!

RUSSIA will hopefully be the first to develop the SOUTH POLE--and hopefully become the first along with JAPAN to learn how to harness our most important resource----THE EARTHS CORE AND ITS MAGNETIC ENERGY---we seemingly continue to look UPWARDS----when its down and into the EARTH that lies our future!! did you know that 25 feet into the earths surface the temperature is constant? where else can you find this? gargantuan civilizations living underground with beautiful aquifers and stunning views of hot molten magma rivers to provide warmth---im thinking that SAKHALIN ISLAND --should become the command center for the future of our PLANET---run completely by the RUSSIANS AND JAPANESE together!! lets celebrate!!!

 

[hogdriver]

RUSSIA will hopefully be the first to develop the SOUTH POLE--and hopefully become the first along with JAPAN to learn how to harness our most important resource----THE EARTHS CORE AND ITS MAGNETIC ENERGY---we seemingly continue to look UPWARDS----when its down and into the EARTH that lies our future!! did you know that 25 feet into the earths surface the temperature is constant? where else can you find this? gargantuan civilizations living underground with beautiful aquifers and stunning views of hot molten magma rivers to provide warmth---im thinking that SAKHALIN ISLAND --should become the command center for the future of our PLANET---run completely by the RUSSIANS AND JAPANESE together!! lets celebrate!!!

That would be great! We must address and help the Japanese people expand peacefully by whatever means nessesary. Although, "owning" anything is WAY over-rated. For example, I will happily swap my huge, (by Japanese standards.) paid for, home, car, furniture with someone in Japan for awhile. They can study our culture, history, and way of life, and I could do likewise. I will even give them the option of stopping the swap at the time of their choosing. My place needs a Japanese touch badly, and they need the challenge and privacy it will give them in return.

I will grab my children, a few personal effects, and be on a plane quickly for the right deal.

email for pics.

 

[3aw]

No...just no. .............