Should Japan Abolish Kanji?

-Rudel- · 20 Mar 2005

Suki-Yaki said:
Sounds to me quite the way westerners would like Japanese language to be , but this is not th west now is it ??

I really do not want to take that as a sarcastic comment.

I'm just forcasting a "what if" situation. As for ToMach. I'm not sure if he is Japanese or not, but....if he is...then there would be one Japanese point of view as opposed to a western living in Japan reading and writing it. That is, if he is Japanese and reads and writes fluently.

epigene · 20 Mar 2005

-Rudel- said:
As for ToMach. I'm not sure if he is Japanese or not,

I'm just posting to say that, regardless of whether ToMach is Japanese or not, he is certainly a fluent Japanese speaker and/or person with outstanding level of understanding for Japanese linguistics. His past posts show that, and I respect his opinions.

As for me, I was born in Japan and lived here all my life (except for a few years in my youth spent in the US).

Index · 20 Mar 2005

Shooter452 said:
Verba docent, exempla trahunt.

I say abolish Latin. Who knows what Shooter is saying to us...

lexico · 20 Mar 2005

BamaFan2989 said:
-- Sorry posted on wrong topic :?

Hey, good to see you here, Bamafan ! Any luck in the ladies' department lately ?

Index said:
I say abolish Latin. Who knows what Shooter is saying to us...

Of all the fine things that Shooter said, you have nothing positive to say ?

Shooter said:
Verba docent, exempla trahunt.

I think it means something like, "DECENT TALK IS LIKE A DOG." Now what's so difficult about that ? I could be wrong here and there. But I'm not responsible for it not being written in kanji, now am I ?
Just to be the devil's advocate (I'm not saying Shooter is the anticrhist), why not reintroduce latin, find a way to transcribe that in kanji, and from there teach greek in kanji instead of the greek alphabet ?
That would make greek so much easier to understands, a tad difficult to read for beginners for sure, but Index could figure out an easy way to do that. Wouldn't you say ?

alexriversan · 20 Mar 2005

this reply is about the word "firend" in different languages

languages are not writing symbols to express the same thing
as far as i know, languages can have more than one word for a thing
people who shout to abolish: you have worked out a better system, i.e. all world should speak english? say: "people speak english"- and you save the world- like spaniards saved south america from cruel sacrification to human crucification- because only one superhero died for all the christs.

take a cross down today and build a cemetery in front of your house
give me good reputation because promoting halloween

relationships like "godfather/holy mother" are not common in japan. japanese may ask when we will abolish these thoughts.

Home send mad replies there

promotion of candy made from sugar is unresponsible

Index · 21 Mar 2005

lexico said:
Of all the fine things that Shooter said, you have nothing positive to say ?I think it means something like, "DECENT TALK IS LIKE A DOG." Now what's so difficult about that ?

Well, I can positively say that I don't understand "Decent talk is like a dog". However it's not written in Greek kanji though is it, so I'm not surprised (although my own stupidity often surprises me). Maybe you translated it backwards Lexico, since you are the Devil's advocate?

Writing Greek in kanji backwards notwithstanding, I propose inventing a system for understanding languages that one doesn't know. Then I would be able to comprehend what alexriversan is trying to express...

alexriversan · 21 Mar 2005

index said:
Well, I can positively say that I don't understand "Decent talk is like a dog".

that's only 1/3 negative point: just "I don't understand ..."

index said:
However it's not written in Greek kanji though is it, so I'm not surprised (although my own stupidity often surprises me). Maybe you translated it backwards Lexico, since you are the Devil's advocate?

an irish saying: talk about the devil and the devil appears.
remarkable no attachment to a gender is done.

i assume most of you do not know the devil, just the devil would be something not good your parents told you. another example western people talk in concepts they do not fully understand.

mentioning "writing greek backwards in kanji": the greek have experienced enough hardships. i have read here greek grammar would have many cases, in contrast with japanese only a few.

a saying containing a greek city: to carry owls to athen

buy flowers today tell how they smell can be considered as a positive contribution have a little aromatherapy at home

梁铠赞 · 21 Mar 2005

漢字 Best...It helps you understand chinese a little bit and japanese...漢字 connect china with japan

alexriversan · 21 Mar 2005

connect china with japan: you mean to build a bridge?

梁铠赞 · 21 Mar 2005

alexriversan said:
connect china with japan: you mean to build a bridge?

of course not... :roflmao: wat i mean is....japanese can read kanji as kanji in japanese is almost da same with the chinese hanzi=kanji=汉字=漢字

lexico · 21 Mar 2005

bridges 橋梁 and landbridges 陸橋
10,000 yrs ago, there used to be a landbridge...

Since 2,000+ yrs ago, we had the kanji bridge...hehe

梁铠赞 · 21 Mar 2005

In my opinion korean,japanese,mongolian,chinese are from the same root...bcause they look the same....anyone agree??

alexriversan · 21 Mar 2005

well they have in common: many different specialized symbols, usually thousands.

latin, kyrillic, greek etc. do only have a few symbols and combine words on abstract basis.

hiragana/katakana do this too, though derived from chinese symbols.
especially when emulating western words.

darg · 23 Mar 2005

Ok, so first off kanji actually make Japanese easier to read as I'm sure many have stated prior. Once you get past an elementary level in Japanese, kanji help to break up the sentence and allow you to see where the different words are and allow you to get alot more information out of a smaller area since the characters carry meanings with them.

Also, the vocabulary that use kanji in Japanese are easier to learn for Chinese people since many of them are Chinese derived, just like katakana words are often easier to learn for Westerners since a good majority of them are English derived (even though they like to screw with the meanings).

So, basically that means that kanji makes it easier for Japanese people (which is most important), Chinese students of Japanese, and basically anyone who takes the time to learn the characters. If you think kanji is impossible to learn then you're just contributing to the misconception that Japanese is a singularly unique language that's impossible to learn for westerners. I say just suck it up and help me prove them wrong!

fermento · 23 Mar 2005

Index said:
I say abolish Latin. Who knows what Shooter is saying to us...

yeah...

whatever cleans a language up should go......because then we can go for a more universal language like english

lexico · 23 Mar 2005

fermento said:
yeah...

whatever cleans a language up should go......because then we can go for a more universal language like english

So you're saying Holocaust was justifiable to make way for a more superior race s.a. the Aryans ?
How convenient British logic can be !

RockLee · 23 Mar 2005

fermento said:
yeah...

whatever cleans a language up should go......because then we can go for a more universal language like english

NONONO !! Languages are one of the most interesting things in human history, it's not ment to be forgotten !

alexriversan said:
hiragana/katakana do this too, though derived from chinese symbols.especially when emulating western words.

To my knowledge only Katakana is derived from Kanji...hiragana are a new set of signs :?

alexriversan · 23 Mar 2005

word for bad unrequired: it is ungood, plusungood and doubleplusungood- so far.

but we need to discriminate black rats from brown rats: rattus rattus versus rattus norvegicus. :45:

abolish the discussion about latin. nowadays it is a labelling system, a so called death language- no one speaks in it.

and of course all the street fighter series carrying VS. need to be rewritten.

black rats: nearly extinct in europe, prefer roofs, smaller than brown rats, big ears, good climbers. bubonic plague transfered by phleas living on these rats.

brown rats: more robust, every big city has them, they eat everything. they are not resposible for the bubonic plague.

now latin helps to discriminate between these rats. if you see a black rat, run!

darg · 23 Mar 2005

RockLee said:
To my knowledge only Katakana is derived from Kanji...hiragana are a new set of signs :?

Nope, both are derived from kanji actually.

fermento · 23 Mar 2005

lexico said:
So you're saying Holocaust was justifiable to make way for a more superior race s.a. the Aryans ?
How convenient British logic can be !

I've a feeling you wanna call me something,
and no i dont go with what you are saying....but if everyone spoke the same language it would be a lot easier to communicate, say like the way it is when talking to other people over the internet.

梁铠赞 · 23 Mar 2005

RockLee said:
To my knowledge only Katakana is derived from Kanji...hiragana are a new set of signs :?

Hiragana also derived from Kanji...

alexriversan · 24 Mar 2005

fermento said:
I've a feeling you wanna call me something

nothing for ungood about your age: if you translate this to japanese, it can (and will) be misunderstood :keitai:
nothing for ungood about your age means: you make an assumption.

Shooter452 · 24 Mar 2005

Index said:
I say abolish Latin. Who knows what Shooter is saying to us...

*LOL* The easy thing to do is search the Web for the translation. Where do you think I find them?

The tranlation: "Words instruct, illustrations lead." It is in reference to kanji being a pictogram alphabet.

Sorry, Index. I'm not trying to be a wiseass. This is not a case of intellectual posturing. I am not smart enough to be an "intellect." These are just attempts at being amusing and a challange for you to look them up. Latin is a "fun language" for me. After the juvenile years of being forced to "mouth the words" at Mass, now I can just use it for effect.

Besides...

Quid quid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

RockLee · 24 Mar 2005

Oh I see....can someone give an example maybe?

lexico · 24 Mar 2005

子曰學而時習之不亦說乎

Master said, "Study (it1) and often practice it2; (is that) not also pleasurable, oh !

notes:
This is a Classical Chinese sentence from Analects 論語 of 5th century BCE, but the Japanese have also studied the Confucian classics. Master should refer to Confucius 孔丘 (551-479 BCE), but some doubt that because it could have been one of the early masters in the Confucian tradition before the saying was put to writing.
Kanji and English words have been arranged to correspond 1-1.
it 1, 2: refers to the way 道 of the Confucian practitioner 儒者, but some say it is the the way 道 of Daoism 道敎.
In your case, you can think of it as the kanjis 漢字.

"Study and often practice your kanji 漢字; isn't learning kanji 漢字 not also a pleasurable thing, oh !"

Should Japan Abolish Kanji?

Do you think kanji should be abolished ?

Yes (kanji make it difficullt to read and write Japanese)

No (kanji are useful and fun to learn)

Maybe

Fire Star Man

相変わらず不束者です

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